Help on Sr Program?

[carnold1836]

Dennis, are you considered a composite or cadet squadron? That is my first question.

My squadron had the same problem with training, still does for that matter (still waiting for a MS/MO course). My best suggestion is to contact the other squadrons in your group to get maybe one or two individuals to set up training sessions. Looking at the Group roster of squadrons, there a quite a few in the Houston area. I'm sure someone out there would lend a hand.

And if it means going around your CC then that's what has to be done for the continued health of the unit. Otherwise, if you are a composite squadron I would say kill the senior side and go straight cadet.


As for the question you posed most recently on this thread, if I were to start a new flight/squadron 100 miles from anywhere, with little or no support from group/wing and needed to get as many interested people in there as possible I would start recruiting.

My squadron was a little stagnant when my current CC came to the unit, he started with the cadets just like you Dennis. He then became the CC and started to work on getting new blood into the Sr side. Our number one tool for recruiting is www.volunteermatch.com.

We have gained up wards of 10 cadets and 5 Sr officers in the last 6 months with an additional 2-3 potential cadets and 1-2 Sr officers per month.

Here is what we have posted on the opportunity detail page.
http://www.volunteermatch.org/results/opp_detail.jsp?oppid=222213

I think my CC says that it costs like $75.00 a year for all the zip codes in the Austin/Round Rock/Georgetown metro area to be covered.

It has definitely helped us, you might want to give it a try.

[Hawk200]

Hawk200, true but if managed properly (there is a DCC for a reason) the two units can share the common positions (LG, Trans, Safety, Finance, etc) to lesson the burdon as opposed to having two struggling to staff them all.

It would not work for everyone sure but it is a way to help save one/two units that cannot survive alone.  We have too many units in this situation.

You're making an assumption that everyone on board of both units wants to combine. Everybody involved may be absolutely willing. Then again, you may have people vehemently opposed to the idea. Hence the "Maybe, maybe not".

You can ask, it would be foolish to automatically assume it won't happen. It would also be foolish to assume it would. It's a gamble, one you don't know the outcome if you don't take it.

When it comes to too many units, that's not your call to make, either. For one, they're thirty minutes apart. Two, as DNall said, they were recently a flight. If they wanted to work with cadets, I have a feeling they would have joined DNall's unit in the first place.

I think asking some of the new seniors to attend the senior unit activities for awhile is a good idea. As I said before, it needs to be a suggestion, not a direction or order. They could learn a lot.

[TDHenderson]

OK, DNall was asking for suggestions which I gave.  Sorry you didn't like my response to him.

[Hawk200]

OK, DNall was asking for suggestions which I gave.  Sorry you didn't like my response to him.

You would do well to not make assumptions on my likes and dislikes. My response was a logical, unbiased one, not one of like or dislike.

The suggestion may have been more workable if the units were closer. Ten minutes isn't too much to ask, but thirty minutes can be a little more daunting to some people, including parents driving their children to the meeting. And it isn't a simple matter of picking a place in between.

As for the other, I remember where I took a ground school taught by a senior member. It was a building at one of the little local airports. Both a cadet squadron, and a senior squadron met in that building. They met on different nights. There were four offices in the building besides the main classroom. The Senior CC had one, the cadet CC had another, and a cadet program officer had a third. Fourth was used for storage.

From what I found out, the two units had been split from a composite squadron. The members that found their way into the Senior unit couldn't stand cadets. They wanted to fly search missions, and do proficiency flying. The cadet CC and his CPO had issues with that. So there was a split, and two mostly independant units formed. The facilities were divvied up, and they never met on the same night again.

Should they have been a composite unit? I think so, and I would understand anyone else that thought they should. But there were extenuating circumstances. Sometimes the available facilities are not sufficient to deal with member preferences. Most of those member preferences we deal with are not near as drastic, but they are there.

[DNall]

We're composite, on paper, just trying to make it reality before I lose the good people I got sitting around & have to keep feeling guilty not doing anything for them. I did suggest they transfer outright to another Sq a couple months back & they didn't want to or couldn't make the meeting nights, so that's not happening. I can get them the training they're looking for on a series of weekends by tapping outside resources. That doesn't do anything to make use of their time on Tuesday nights to keep them interested & maybe even doing something productive that's out of my hair for now & maybe useful to me down the road.

Chris you've mentioned that website a few times before. I'll check into it, but again we have enough people to run a program now & enough available potential to get more. I wouldn't want to have more than 25 active seniors, well maybe but I'd want to plateau there at least & get it together before letting it get any bigger. I have to start with a foundation of the people I have now & then I can fill in behind them on a 12month plan.

[TDHenderson]

You would do well to not make assumptions on my likes and dislikes. My response was a logical, unbiased one, not one of like or dislike.

If giving my $.02 to DNall warrants an attack by you then I am sorry.  I meant no offence. 

DNall, it really sounds like you are one or two quality Adult members away from pulling this off.  Hopefully, in time, the unit CC will allow you to ask for help from higher HQ's.  They really need to be helping you out.

One thing that Iowa Wing is starting is targeted recruiting.  The Squadrons give a unit manning status to the Wing telling them what slots need filled and they have started to target recruiting and training in the OTS to fill the positions.  Perhaps that is something your Group can help you out with.

 

[DNall]

You guys settle down.

Yeah I think we're getting to that size point where we can & really have to start getting things done. And frankly we've been holding off on aggressively expanding the adult membership until that's in place. It just hadn't gotten done, no one's stepped up. I'm sure I could do it myself, but I'm busy.

Tegerted recruiting is an excellent method. The key problem I have here is I'm not missing entry level people, I'm missing mid-senior leaders & don't have the resources to make them.

[RiverAux]

What about cutting back on the meeting night requirements for the "extra" seniors.  Most senior units, or senior parts of composite squadrons, only meet two nights a month anyway.  If I had to plan a senior program for 4 nights a month I'd go nuts. 

[DNall]

Not sure what you mean by extra. The 9 listed (counting me) show up something between every night (3), 3 out of 4 nights (3), and once a month (3). The rest on the roster hadn't been there once in six months.

That's fair enough. I really liked the two Sat's a month we did at Pegasus. I could see that working like the Iowa WTA, and just a couple weeks ago advised that aforementioned Gp PD officer to go that route with teh Sq he's trying to get started.

I'll look into that more. I'm thinking at this poit I need to sit all my seniors down & talk about what they want out of the Sq & how we can make that happen as a team with a goal set for June-ish & knowing we have to rotate a lot of leadership positions at that point. That we will be laying down a matrix of content for them, with their help, and that when they get their feet under them we'll fill behind with another 9-10 adults that they need to be in a position to lead. I got those two prior-NCOs that'll respond to a challnege & are certainly willing to work, as long as I deliver on the back end w/ aircrew training & opportunities which I can pull off.

What i need is content & a way to just tell someone else to do it w/ a checklist or something so it'll get done & I can not be bothered with it. That's overly optomistic obviously. I know I'm going tohave to play a role from behind the curtain, and if my new cadet leadership works out (fingers crossed) then I'll have time to do that. Hell jugling flaming chainsaws can't be that hard right?

[RiverAux]

You said that you had more seniors on hand than you really need to run the cadet program.   That is who I was calling extra. 

[Fifinella]

Well, I think what you're asking is how to get folks spun up in duty positions.  I haven't found any "continuity binder"-type materials yet.  If you can recruit some motivated folks, it's just a matter of getting them the specialty track pamphlets.  The ones I've read lay out the duties and governing regs pretty well.

For any recruits you might get, I recommend the beta materials called Great Start: http://level2.cap.gov/documents/Booklet.pdf 

If you're already familiar with the materials I mentioned, I apologize for wasting your time.

[DNall]

The guys I got now have at least been to SLS where Great Start & similiar stuff was covered pretty well. There's actually a deal, I want to say it's South Carolina, it's on their website & is a ES great start booklet to walk them thru eServices & getting basic quals. All that says is they know the material is out there. I hadn't looked at it myself honestly, I don't know about them. I've heard good things though & new people probably should follow that path. I need someone to get up to speed on that & be able to do this stuff.

I'm starting to feel pretty dumb about this. Seems like the thing that needs to happen is back up & start simple. Get the people in a room & find out what kind of focus they want from our unit, then talk about the jobs that requires & divie up track guides & mentor/assist (build some continuity binders & support/resource contacts), then just keep walking it forward.

I don't know, the way I envision an adult meeting is maybe half the time is for staff work and the other half is consumed in a formal presentation of some content, be that ES training, outside speakers, PD related, whatever. A big part of my problem is I don't have time to set all that up, or anyone that knows how to teach it.

What would be most helpful is advice on identifying someone from the list that can apply some leadership & hold the crazy train together by force of will. And, content ideas for what they can get setup for presentations.

[TDHenderson]

Reach out to your State Director.  They should be able to help find Reservists, etc, in your area that can help mentor for squadron jobs.  Ours is very good at doing just that.  His training is more from the "this is what you need to know about your position to pass a unit inpection" angle but it's a good start and get's the creative juices flowing. 

[Hawk200]

What about cutting back on the meeting night requirements for the "extra" seniors.  Most senior units, or senior parts of composite squadrons, only meet two nights a month anyway.  If I had to plan a senior program for 4 nights a month I'd go nuts. 

Actually a pretty good idea. Don't really need folks showing up taking space if you can avoid it. As long as you can get them to cooperate, instead of herding cats.

Reach out to your State Director.  They should be able to help find Reservists, etc, in your area that can help mentor for squadron jobs. 

Good idea, as well. Not to mention the Reservist can educate your commander on the concept of "failing alone". Sounds like your commander has some ego issues, DNall.

....Seems like the thing that needs to happen is back up & start simple. Get the people in a room & find out what kind of focus they want from our unit, then talk about the jobs that requires & divie up track guides & mentor/assist (build some continuity binders & support/resource contacts), then just keep walking it forward.

Might not hurt. Have them provide you with their "unit vision". Beats trying to figure one out on your own.

I don't know, the way I envision an adult meeting is maybe half the time is for staff work and the other half is consumed in a formal presentation of some content, be that ES training, outside speakers, PD related, whatever. A big part of my problem is I don't have time to set all that up, or anyone that knows how to teach it.

That's the way we do it in our composite unit. The commander sets it up. Which is a problem for you, because your commander is apparently a little on the worthless side. Don't know what to say, other than I feel for you.

What would be most helpful is advice on identifying someone from the list that can apply some leadership & hold the crazy train together by force of will. And, content ideas for what they can get setup for presentations.

Tougher to do, leadership is easily recognized when missing. And trust me, the force of will stuff doesn't work long. After a while, you run out of will. BTDT.

For us, typically one meeting a month covers the safety briefing. Another meeting will cover PD stuff, including upcoming courses. The last meeting I went to, the commander had us out on the runways hunting for a practice ELT.

If everyone knows what to be doing, then usually you don't have to "create" a laid out meeting plan. People can come in, do their jobs.

[DNall]

My Commander is actually not that bad. He's a bg ole softy really. He's a prior-service (logistics) officer, current (on paper) Sr observer, & used to be Gp CC before we condensed down to these much larger Gps. I think the issue is more... you know in some wings how Wg HQ is looked at as the big bad wolf that comes hunting in your backyeard & you have to play defense w/ good PR to keep them off your back, asking for help means pointing out problems to the hungry pack... that's more his attitude. I don't know, but I think this was kind of a sunset gig for him after years & years at Gp. I don't see it as an ego problem at all, and I don't really fault or blame him for this situation. The only complaint I have is I expect more strength & leadership from that position to make things happen. I believe he's capable of that, but I'm frustrated it hasn't happened, & think he might need a jolt to gain perspective & get going. I can't provide that, but I can start things in motion, and believe that in seeing them move he'll come to life & apply his mgmt skills to sustain & grow it further.

I'm gonna try to put my guys in a room & come out with something. Got a PT activity tmrw w/ cadets & an AF recruiter in Tuesday, so it'll be the week after that before I can do it, but I want to get an established vision from them & start working the structure in that direction. I can sell the CC on whatever I want internally. A couple of people have offered resources too that I'll tap to the extent I think I can w/o hurting them. I thnk we can get thru it. I just would like to have moire confidence in it. If it were me leading the effort or another established & experienced leader that I could have confidence in, then I'd just have faith & put it out of my mind, but it looks like I'll have to keep worrying about this for some time yet & I don't want that distracting from my primary foci.

[Hawk200]

My Commander is actually not that bad. He's a bg ole softy really. He's a prior-service (logistics) officer, current (on paper) Sr observer, & used to be Gp CC before we condensed down to these much larger Gps. I think the issue is more... you know in some wings how Wg HQ is looked at as the big bad wolf that comes hunting in your backyeard & you have to play defense w/ good PR to keep them off your back, asking for help means pointing out problems to the hungry pack... that's more his attitude. I don't know, but I think this was kind of a sunset gig for him after years & years at Gp. I don't see it as an ego problem at all, and I don't really fault or blame him for this situation. The only complaint I have is I expect more strength & leadership from that position to make things happen. I believe he's capable of that, but I'm frustrated it hasn't happened, & think he might need a jolt to gain perspective & get going. I can't provide that, but I can start things in motion, and believe that in seeing them move he'll come to life & apply his mgmt skills to sustain & grow it further.

Never really had a problem with "big bad wing" before, so that's a concept that is foreign to me. It doesn't, however, mean that it does not happen. Maybe having a Reservist might help a great deal. And the State Director would be a valuable resource as well. Sounds like the wing needs some work, if that is the impression that lower units have of them.

[ZigZag911]

I think at this pont you need to sift through the ideas here, pick maybe two real basic things you can do to get the senior side on a good footing....and step back and see if someone steps up to run it.

Nature abhors a vacuum (although that doesn't always mean it gets filled!)

Still, with your imminent departure, what you can do best is plant some healthy seeds.

You can't make them grow, that has to be a job for others.

[DNall]

Never really had a problem with "big bad wing" before, so that's a concept that is foreign to me. It doesn't, however, mean that it does not happen. Maybe having a Reservist might help a great deal. And the State Director would be a valuable resource as well. Sounds like the wing needs some work, if that is the impression that lower units have of them.

That's not my or the popular impression of the Wing, but it has been that way in the past & some people, especially those that commanded during those years, retain that attitude. The dynamic is much changed & quite good now in my opinion.

We have a new CAP-RAP guy around. He came once for our XMas party. Hadn't seen him since, but seemed pretty squared away. I'd like to get him back out some, apparently he lives near by. However he is brand new to working with CAP & was looking to us for advice more than anything. There's not a lot of other AF support around. The state director is amazing at his job, but a few hundred miles away. I would think unit dynamic kind of support is best found on the CAP side. Not that there aren't extremely knowledgable people across the line, but they are few & far between.

[acarlson]

Hey DNall...

I'm the newby to the boards... and I can't really tell where you're located... but I'm PDO in Eastern PA... If your in the NER, give me a call.  I'm happy to help out with the Sr Program.

[DNall]

Houston, but thanks. Any content or fast startup ideas would be helpful, I'm sure I'm not the only one that could benefit from that brainstorming.