lets add some well earned color to our squadron flag poles

[starshippe]

   i spent most of yesterday sitting here whining to myself about how our two lonely unit citation streamers on our squadron flag pole would not be getting any new company from the about to be announced ser ncuc award, as i had read that the streamer would only be allowed on the wing's pole, because that was the "unit" it was awarded to. our squadron supported dwh with five member-weeks of effort, which to me is a noteworthy number.

   why don't we have a streamer on the squadron flag pole for each ribbon, in the same color scheme, for any member of the squadron who has been awarded the ribbon? for multiple awards, or awards of the same ribbon to more than one member, bronze and silver clasps could be added, to represent the total number of that award earned by squadron members. these could be push through devices, having a pin on one side and receptacle on the other, allowing clasps to be easily added or changed. other devices, like propellers, the silver star on the save ribbon, and silver vee on the pres disaster relief ribbon, could be sewn into the streamer.

   this seems like a good idea to me. it also sounds like a good photo op for articles in the paper.

bill

ser: south east region
ncuc: national commander's unit citation
dwh: deep water horizon, the gulf oil spill, the largest cap mission in sixty years.

[spacecommand]

I couldn't follow much on the second half of your post, but:

How many members of your unit worked on the oil spill?

If you want recognition, some things you can do:
Submit the names of the members who worked directly on the disaster for a Disaster Relief ribbon with V device.
Or you can submit a unit citation nomination for your unit. 

[RiverAux]

CAP's "process" for giving out such awards has always needed a little work.

The obvious comparison would be military campaign streamers.  In that world if the 1st Air Wing earned a campaign streamer for being in Korea then the 25th Fighter Squadron would also have earned that streamer if it was in the Wing and was in Korea at the same time. 

CAP's unit commendations are given out for similar reasons, but the difference is that CAP members basically deploy individually rather than as units.  If Alabama Wing earns a streamer for DWH it is entirely possible that there could be multiple squadrons in the wing that didn't participate at all.  Others may have sent a person or two.  Maybe only a couple really had high levels of squadron participation. 

However, trying to figure that out and determine which squadrons "deserve" a streamer is probably more work than it is worth.  On the other hand, giving a streamer to all of them just seems wrong. 

Instead, CAP has chosen a middle ground -- give the streamer to the highest level unit (usually a Wing) but let all the members of that wing have the ribbon whether or not they did anything to earn it. 

[starshippe]

   i finished whining yesterday. i'm ok now. lets forget about the ncuc.

   my point was that we should be able to display the awards that the squadron members have earned. lets get a streamer for each of the ribbons, like air sar, yeager, commanders commendations, etc. then put clasps on the streamers to show the accomplishments of all the members in the squadron, and put the streamers on the squadron flag.

hows that?

bill

[lordmonar]

The USAF makes sure that any unit awards to Wing...that include subordinate units.....gets their awards too.

Having said that....if the unit award was presented for an operation that was managed at the wing level.....then it should only be streamed from the wing banner.

[jimmydeanno]

I agree that units that are included should be able to fly their streamer.

However, it looks like there are two discussions happening here.

1) Units should get a streamer for the flag if they participated.

2) Should units that didn't send anyone get credit for the NCUC:  I'm of the opinion that regardless of whether or not you sent someone, that unit still helped with the effort.  In CAP's case, an extended mission causes a few problems locally.  If your aircrews are being deployed, etc then somebody ends up picking up more load locally in terms of readiness, etc.  So without having anyone in the AOR, they are supporting the effort by ensuring that we are still ready to provide services to the local areas that the "deployed" guys are leaving.

[Eclipse]

I'm of the opinion that regardless of whether or not you sent someone, that unit still helped with the effort.  In CAP's case, an extended mission causes a few problems locally.  If your aircrews are being deployed, etc then somebody ends up picking up more load locally in terms of readiness, etc.  So without having anyone in the AOR, they are supporting the effort by ensuring that we are still ready to provide services to the local areas that the "deployed" guys are leaving.

Sorry, I don't buy that.  It sounds good on paper and makes for nice-nice politically, but we all know that isn't remotely true, and further, there are units
in these wings who have absolutely no one involved in ES whatsoever.

In missions like this, we should decorate the people, not the units.  If the wings really stepped up and acted as a cohesive force in getting things done, great, then a UC is appropriate, for the 001 unit, not the whole wing.  If other units downstream provided concerted efforts, too, then they deserve
specific recognition and their own certificate.

[starshippe]

   i can see that i made a big mistake mentioning the ncuc. i was only trying to lead into our two lonely streamers. i don't mind one bit that the award was made at the wing level. i'm glad to be a part of it.

   the point of my post was that we should recognize everyone's efforts with streamers on the squadron flag. lets make streamers for each of the different awards and populate them with squadron members achievements. hang them all on the squadron flag.


bill

[davidsinn]

   i can see that i made a big mistake mentioning the ncuc. i was only trying to lead into our two lonely streamers. i don't mind one bit that the award was made at the wing level. i'm glad to be a part of it.

   the point of my post was that we should recognize everyone's efforts with streamers on the squadron flag. lets make streamers for each of the different awards and populate them with squadron members achievements. hang them all on the squadron flag.


bill

But individuals earned them, not the unit. You only hang awards the unit has earned on the unit flag.

[Eclipse]

The point of my post was that we should recognize everyone's efforts with streamers on the squadron flag. lets make streamers for each of the different awards and populate them with squadron members achievements. hang them all on the squadron flag.

And for the units without flags? 

[RiverAux]

     the point of my post was that we should recognize everyone's efforts with streamers on the squadron flag. lets make streamers for each of the different awards and populate them with squadron members achievements. hang them all on the squadron flag.

Boy, that just doesn't make any sense to me at all. 

[a2capt]

Star Trek TNG technobabble overload is easier to follow.

[RiverAux]

     the point of my post was that we should recognize everyone's efforts with streamers on the squadron flag. lets make streamers for each of the different awards and populate them with squadron members achievements. hang them all on the squadron flag.

Boy, that just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

To be clear, I understand what he is proposing....it seems to be that he wants a streamer for say, the Mitchell award and then have a a pin or something placed on the streamer each time a cadet in the unit earns that award.

I just don't see it as a good idea.

[a2capt]

See, I didn't get that out of there at all. What I got from it was something that was something that after some time would be destined to look like a Pin the Tail on the Donkey game with a football stadium amount of participants, and one donkey.

You want that, keep stats on the wall. "What the unit has produced". Over with the chain of command, trophies, safety reporting forms, newsletter, etc.

[GroundHawg]

My take was that every unit within the command structure should recieve a streamer for their unit flag or guideon, not just the command flag.

Examples...

If GLR recieves a Unit Citation, every single squadron within GLR would recieve a UC streamer for their flag
IN Wing recieves a NCUC, every single squadron within IN Wing would recieve a NCUC streamer for their flag

Just like the military.

The other stuff about SAR, Commander Comms, Yeagers etc... Those are all individual awards and should not be representative of squadron. The only equivalency I know of for military is the EIB streamers for Infantry units. If a certain percentage of our unit had earned their EIB you recieved a streamer for that year, that would come off at the end of the year.

[starshippe]

   again, i don't have a problem with the ncuc streamer adorning the wing flag. thats the way the rules are written.

   the donkey would not have that many tails, as there aren't that many different ribbons. the accomplishments of the individual squadron members would be represented by clasps on the that respective flag ribbon, in the same manner as on the individual ribbons, with a silver clasp representing five bronze, etc.

   but, the fact that the squadron members did receive the ncuc would mean that that flag ribbon, if not the streamer, would be on the flag. there would be a clasp for each member who earned it, in other words each member of the squadron who was a member sometime during the duration of dwh. sneaky, yes, but effective.

bill

[Eclipse]

If GLR recieves a Unit Citation, every single squadron within GLR would recieve a UC streamer for their flag
IN Wing recieves a NCUC, every single squadron within IN Wing would recieve a NCUC streamer for their flag

Or better still...

...we stop this practice of awarding an entire wing or region for the work of what is ultimately a small percentage of the respective membership.

[RiverAux]

The practice is fine and the relative rarity with which such citations are issued indicates to me that the system works pretty well.

[Spaceman3750]

If GLR recieves a Unit Citation, every single squadron within GLR would recieve a UC streamer for their flag
IN Wing recieves a NCUC, every single squadron within IN Wing would recieve a NCUC streamer for their flag

Or better still...

...we stop this practice of awarding an entire wing or region for the work of what is ultimately a small percentage of the respective membership.

We win as a team, we lose as a team.

[Eclipse]

We win as a team, we lose as a team.

Again, a good bumper sticker, but hardly the reality.  Decorating people not involved cheapens the award for those who
burned calories, and it disincentivizes everyone involved.

After one high-viz operation there were members in more than one wing who were being simultaneously decorated and considered for termination
related to the same action.  Meanwhile, wings had people all over submitting for CAP decs based on work for other organizations.
That's teamwork?