Nominating self for award?

[RNOfficer]

In CAP anyone can nominate anyone for an award; I assume this means one could nominate oneself. Has anyone ever done this? The response?

I believe I deserve at least an Achievement Award for my contributions to the unit this year but doubt anyone will nominate me.

Last year, my unit gave only one Achievement Award (not to me but I nominated the recipient) and no higher awards (CCs and such). This unit is more active than most others.

[tsrup]

sure,
put your name on some paper, write how awesome you are, and see if it sticks.


If it works it works, if it doesn't, then you only wasted some paper.

[HGjunkie]

I would think it's odd to nominate yourself for something.

[SarDragon]

Sometimes, you gotta do whatcha gotta do. Sad, but true.

[RiverAux]

If your personnel officer is not up to snuff sometimes you have to take care of yourself, particularly for the professional awards and some of the routine stuff (red service ribbon).  It is very often up to the individual to keep track of their ES activities and to put themselves in when they have enough credit for things like the Air SAR, CD, or DR ribbons.  No one would think it odd that an individual generated their own reward request for items like that.

Now, if you start talking about individual decorations like the Achievement Award, Commanders Commendation, etc., people probably would look at you funny if you started paperwork on them.

[RADIOMAN015]

Now, if you start talking about individual decorations like the Achievement Award, Commanders Commendation, etc., people probably would look at you funny if you started paperwork on them.

I would think it could be given to the commander for his/her review.   Lets face it we all keep track of our accomplishments at work so when raise/review time comes we can point some things out.  The only payment for volunteers are awards of various sorts.   Why not just help the unit leadership.  IF you feel you deserve it and it isn't signed/forwarded than it would be time to have a heart to heart talk with the unit commander.

(However, interesting war story, when I was NCOIC of unit administration for an aircraft maintenance squadron, the officer maintenance supervisor (departing for a permanent change of station) actually submitted his narrative/form for an award completed.  The commander gave it back to me (unsigned) and said do what you want with it.   Well I put it in my desk drawer (just in case he changed his minded) and 1 year later when I left, it was still in that desk drawer.    )   

RM   

[Camas]

If your personnel officer is not up to snuff sometimes you have to take care of yourself, particularly for the professional awards and some of the routine stuff (red service ribbon).

You're supposed to take care of yourself by submitting appropriate paperwork (CAPF2a or CAPF24) for awards and "routine stuff". Re: CAPR 39-3 Para 19 and CAPR 50-17 Para 2-5e.

[Flying Pig]

In CAP anyone can nominate anyone for an award; I assume this means one could nominate oneself. Has anyone ever done this? The response?

I believe I deserve at least an Achievement Award for my contributions to the unit this year but doubt anyone will nominate me.

Last year, my unit gave only one Achievement Award (not to me but I nominated the recipient) and no higher awards (CCs and such). This unit is more active than most others.

In CAP, some commanders either dont think about it, care or both.  I would talk to your unit staff about it before I would start writing my own.  If it comes down to it, then write your own, or approach another member, brief them on the details, and perhaps they will be the submitting member. But make sure you follow up.
Like in my case, I was put in for the SMoV, a few years passed and I just assumed it got rejected.  Shame on me for not following up. SqCC changed, things were moved around, you know how it goes.  I later found it in an abandoned desk drawer about 3 years later.  Postage on the envelope but never mailed.  I inquired and was told the award had to be submitted within 2 years of the incident.  Shortly after, I let my membership lapse for about 3 years.  Here I am again, 10 years later.....discovering CAP isnt for me again.

[lordmonar]

Sometimes, you gotta do whatcha gotta do. Sad, but true.

True on Active Duty, true at work, true in CAP.

[Stonewall]

Sometimes, you gotta do whatcha gotta do. Sad, but true.

True on Active Duty, true at work, true in CAP.

Yes, can confirm this right now.  I and every other E6 & above had to write their own awards package for the deployment I'm on right now.  Only thing leadership did was tweak what we wrote.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I know I have at least one, maybe two, clasps to my Red Service Ribbon coming, but I would feel terribly out-of-place doing the paperwork and giving it to the squadron CC.

[davidsinn]

I know I have at least one, maybe two, clasps to my Red Service Ribbon coming, but I would feel terribly out-of-place doing the paperwork and giving it to the squadron CC.

Why? You're not putting yourself in for a decoration only a service award.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Why? You're not putting yourself in for a decoration only a service award.

I too often suffer from the "tall-poppy syndrome."

[ßτε]

There is definitely a difference between recommendations for decorations submitted on a CAPF 120 and applications for activity and service ribbons submitted on a CAPF 2a.
One should not recommend oneself for a decoration.

But for activity and service ribbons:

19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing commander as outlined in paragraph 17b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns it to the recipient.) Upon approval, activity and service ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.

[SarDragon]

I know I have at least one, maybe two, clasps to my Red Service Ribbon coming, but I would feel terribly out-of-place doing the paperwork and giving it to the squadron CC.

I just did mine for my 40 clasp. If I don't keep track, no one else is going to, either, because I have broken service, and only just recently have I been able to substantiate my entire service periods.

[JC004]

I know I have at least one, maybe two, clasps to my Red Service Ribbon coming, but I would feel terribly out-of-place doing the paperwork and giving it to the squadron CC.

Why? You're not putting yourself in for a decoration only a service award.

Agree.  I had to do all of my 2a ribbons myself.  I'd feel strange doing a 120 for something, though.  If you qualify for the SAR ribbon or whatever, you just fill out the 2a, attach documentation, get it signed, place it in your file.  Otherwise you're wearing ribbons that haven't been awarded in writing.  I have the hours for the community service ribbon (tons of them, actually), but how would anyone know that if I hadn't filled out the form, attached the Presidential letter (for the President's Call to Service Award) with the number of hours on it (over 6,000), and got it signed?  A personnel officer isn't even likely to come across that information if I hadn't initiated it and if someone wants to know where the documentation is for two Community Service ribbons with silver clasps across them, it's not there without my own initiative... (I don't own the physical ribbons, but I could, I guess...)

[nesagsar]

  A personnel officer isn't even likely to come across that information if I hadn't initiated it and if someone wants to know where the documentation is for two Community Service ribbons with silver clasps across them, it's not there without my own initiative... (I don't own the physical ribbons, but I could, I guess...)

I had the same type of situation WIWAC. I usually wore the standard com service ribbon with no attachment but at NCSA boards I had both ribbons with all of the silver clasps.

[3DigitSpaatz]

I believe I deserve at least an Achievement Award for my contributions to the unit this year but doubt anyone will nominate me.

What YOU believe isn't the point, is it? Perhaps you'll just need to revel in the self-satisfaction of a job well done.  Or did you just join CAP so you could collect pretty little ribbons for your uniform?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd feel like a complete tool recommending myself for an achievement award, and would view anyone who does as such.  If you don't feel like your work, above and beyond that of your peers, is being appreciated, you can always take your services elsewhere.

[anonymous former c/col]

Most of post redacted - my choice.  Realized it came down to this:

No, as NIN said, I am not the voice of morality in CAP.  I am one voice of the way things used to be, and this is my opinion.


If no one recognized your work there is honor in being the tireless volunteer who only does this work for God, Country and Community, maybe you'll feel good about yourself, and trust that eventually you will be rewarded...

"There is no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit."

[lordmonar]

hahahhaahahahahha

God I love CAPTALK sometimes.  I don't know which way I should go on this.

Okay.......

One.......It is your career....you are the one responsible for making sure it move in the direction you want it to go.  In the real USAF that means firewall "5"'s and a decoration at the end of your tour (for the E's at least).

You get a crappy EPR or a lazy supervisor who is too "busy" to look out for you....you do it yourself.

I wrote all my own EPRs over the last 10 years of my career.  I was expected to provide very strong bullets from the time I was writing EPR for my subordinates.  Same deal for decorations. 

In CAP if getting decorations is your thing........well you certainly aren't getting paid.....and you have a commander who does not do his job.....again, you have to look after your self.

Two......we get this all the time from former cadets who never really learn the lessons we try to impart.   SITUATIONAL LEADERSHIP.....this is not touchy feely BS this is real world leadership.....you use all the tools available because not everyone is the same.  Assuming that everyone has the same values as you....is a sign that you don't understand leadership.

Three....It may be more satisfying that someone recognises your work and sings your praises.....but sometimes you got to do it your self.  I assume that you work in the real world and have, at least at one point, had to punch a time card.   I mean should your boss not known that you were at work and doing your job....that he should have done all the paperwork to makesure you got justly compensated?

I know at my work......if my employees don't fill out their time sheets correctly......it's their pay check.

[anonymous former c/col]

"Two......we get this all the time from former cadets who never really learn the lessons we try to impart.   SITUATIONAL LEADERSHIP.....this is not touchy feely BS this is real world leadership.....you use all the tools available because not everyone is the same.  Assuming that everyone has the same values as you....is a sign that you don't understand leadership." 

Leadership?  You're demonstrating leadership to yourself by giving yourself an award, promotion, eval...whatever?

I thought we were talking about a person awarding their own perceived accomplishments, not another person.  I love how this always comes around to someone's assertion that former cadets don't understand leadership, and "never really learn." 

I learned a big thing while being just a cadet in CAP:

Selfless service.

I lived by Pres Truman's: "There is no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit."

I disagree with the notion of putting yourself in for a commendation, which started this thread.   You have your own opinions, and that's fine, but you can't try to kill a debate with "you don't understand leadership." 

After my limited experience on CAPtalk I ask:  Is this a forum for debate about CAP, or not?   Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't get something, or skipped the meeting they taught "leadership" in CAP.

[3DigitSpaatz]

Three....It may be more satisfying that someone recognises your work and sings your praises.....but sometimes you got to do it your self. ?

Jeezus, that's pathetic!

Well...  As long as you think you're great...     

I assume that you work in the real world and have, at least at one point, had to punch a time card.   I mean should your boss not known that you were at work and doing your job....that he should have done all the paperwork to makesure you got justly compensated?

I know at my work......if my employees don't fill out their time sheets correctly......it's their pay check.

Wow.  You must be real popular with subordinates. 

But who cares?  As long a you can buy yourself that "World's Greatest Boss" coffee mug, they can all pound sand, right?

[3DigitSpaatz]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't get something, or skipped the meeting they taught "leadership" in CAP.

+1 

I must have been absent for the meeting where they taught that the first rule of leadership is, "Lookin' out for numba one!!!"

[JC004]

Since I had decided to avoid CAPtalk, let me preamble with this: a well-placed friend emailed me and said "You're never gonna believe what they are talking about now on CAPtalk...giving themselves awards.  Go check it out."  He basically dared me to not respond.

Thus far I have not been known as the voice of controlled restraint.  I'm amazed at how many of you agree with this person.  Some of you need to hear something different, without fear of being locked, blocked, banned, etc.  Differences of opinion are necessary.

In my day a good bark was a quick way to get a point across quickly.  It's called hazing now.

No, as NIN said, I am not the voice of morality in CAP.  I am the voice of the way things used to be, and those of you still hangin' around have adopted the touchy feely mentality of the new era of the US.

My first instinct is to say "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!  CAP has really gotten pathetic.  You guys really think it's okay to put yourself in for an award beyond Red Service, recruiter, etc?  I would have been laughed out of my wing."

The reasoned adult in me who would try to explain this says: Really?  You're going to walk around proudly wearing an award for commendation/achievement (not something routine) that you put yourself in for?

How good does that feel?

What are you going to say when someone says "Oh, what did you get that ribbon for?"  You'll say what?  "I got it because I deserve it.  I did some good stuff for my CAP squadron this year."  What parallels can we draw to this?  I should have gotten the lifesaving award because I saved a drowning boy when I was 13?

How are you going to live with yourself writing a narrative on "how awesome you are?"  Are you okay with that kind of self-promotion?  I couldn't be.

It's better that someone recognizes your work, and goes through the trouble to do it for you.

Read this carefully: if no one recognized your work there is honor in being the tireless volunteer who only does this work for God, Country and Community, maybe you'll feel good about yourself, and trust that eventually you will be rewarded...

NOT TO WEAR A CHEAP LITTLE RIBBON.

...
my limited experience on CAPtalk
...

That is clear.

I am, however, glad that you have "well-placed" friends who keep an eye on it for you.  That way you don't miss something important that matters to you and your service.

I wish that I had well-placed friend like that who would keep a sharp eye on what CAPTalk is doing.  I feel unworthy now. 

It is a sad day in America when you need a well-placed friend to find something on a publicly-accessible web forum for you, but I guess that it what it has come to in this country. 

I, for one, would like to express my support for your crusade to restore the perfect days of old through your various work in the organization and your solid recommendations for a better alternative that you put here on CAPTalk.

[anonymous former c/col]

...
my limited experience on CAPtalk
...

That is clear.

I am, however, glad that you have "well-placed" friends who keep an eye on it for you.  That way you don't miss something important that matters to you and your service.

I wish that I had well-placed friend like that who would keep a sharp eye on what CAPTalk is doing.  I feel unworthy now. 

It is a sad day in America when you need a well-placed friend to find something on a publicly-accessible web forum for you, but I guess that it what it has come to in this country. 

I, for one, would like to express my support for your crusade to restore the perfect days of old through your various work in the organization and your solid recommendations for a better alternative that you put here on CAPTalk.

Wow.  Too bad there's not a sarcasm font.  Very constructive. 

So, all I'm trying to yell is this: this IS what being a CAP cadet taught me.  Senior Members from both prior service and 100% civilian taught me to not do something with an expectation of a material reward or award.  Senior Members, and cadets, drilled it into my head to not need such things as motivation or initiative to do good things.  As they put it, don't expect a cookie.

Do it because it's good.  Do it because it's the right thing to do.

That is what CAP taught me.

If you want bits of ribbon to feel good about yourself: go crazy. 

[flyboy53]

The sad fact is that you are assuming that your actions are deserving of a decoration that someone else will approve.

There are a couple of long standing lessons that are common among those of us who have been around the CAP for a while.

First, it is true that if you want something done, do it yourself. That same lesson applies to the Reserves and the Guard.

Second, there used to be a common understanding among AF NCOs that the number of service ribbons/decorations only indicates about a third of what someone did during their career.

That said, anyone can nominate someone else for an award or decoration. If you nominate yourself, you run the risk of showing that you're full of yourself -- which presents a whole new level of how you may be perceived by your unit -- and that your superiors may not think that the accomplishments merit the recognition you are seeking.

Therefore, my suggestion to you is assemble the information, take it to your commander, and let the individual decide if you deserve the recognition. Then be prepared. If the commander decides in your favor -- greatl. If he or she doesn't; be prepared to salute smartly, do an about face and carry on with your duties.

[RiverAux]

I figure it all sort of balances out -- there may be an award or two that I may deserve that I didn't get, but on the other hand I know that I've gotten a few awards that I didn't do anything in particular that was award worthy. 

[lordmonar]

flyboy1,

Don't think for a minute that my advocating "self nomination" is anyway implying that you should be jumping the chain.

All I am saying is that if you think you do good work.....taking a completed CAPF 120 or 2a to the commander when you "ask him about getting an award" is going to be very helpful.  If your commander really does not think you are deserving...then that's it.   Salute smartly and move on. 

On the other hand....we are all very busy and sometimes a little reminder and some help on the admin side of things helps out commanders to no end.

Now to AFC/C (Anonymous Former C/Col)........you missed the point.  Situational leadership means that individuals are motivated by different things.  You are motivated by the ideal of personal sacrifice and other intangibles....but others are motivated by the bling.   This is not saying one is better then the other.....just that they are different.  YOU did not learn this particular lesson.  If you had you would not be so animated in your response to the OP and those who...through their experience.....understand and support the OP.

You don't think someone should put themselves in for an award....okay good....I understand that.   Nothing wrong with that to a point.  When you see a bunch of members drop out because they did not get the recognition that they thought they deserved then that's the price CAP has to pay.


3DigitSpaats.......
I don't think you read my post correctly.  I only said that individuals are responsible for looking out for themselves.  I never said that a leader's first job is to look out for number one.  I never said that you advance yourself at the expense of your subordinate.

In this case the OP is a subordinate who has done the job of a leader (that is he completed the mission/job/project) and is now looking for recognition.  The OP's problem is not that he is seeking recognition but (maybe) he has poor leaders above him NOT doing their job.  The OP is doing his job as a leader, by knowing himself and knowing his wants and desires and is doing what needs to be done to achieve them.  He is not doing this on the backs other others, or by anything that is unethical. 

Like I said......having someone else sing your praises and give you pretty ribbons is a very effect leadership tool......but if you are not receiving the recognition you think you deserve.....it is incumbent up on you to seek it out.  And it is poor leadership to berate and belittle those who are motivated by simple bling.  It is a violation of CAP's core values and a waste of resources.

[anonymous former c/col]

No, lordmonar, I totally get that people are motivated by different things.  CAP did teach that as a cadet.  I can't cover every variable and nuance without taking pages to write my posts.  The original post asked for feedback.  I did so.  I like a lively debate too.  So, I am saying, that's fine if you want bling.  My cadet and adult education just taught me to be okay with not being rewarded. 

In my original post my whole point was: WIWAC, it was wrong to ask for an award - and it wasn't done.  If I had, I would have been laughed out of my wing.  I redacted it to get down to the point.

[lordmonar]

No, lordmonar, I totally get that people are motivated by different things.  CAP did teach that as a cadet.  I can't cover every variable and nuance without taking pages to write my posts.  The original post asked for feedback.  I did so.  I like a lively debate too.  So, I am saying, that's fine if you want bling.  My cadet and adult education just taught me to be okay with not being rewarded.

Well...that's not what you said in your original post. 

[Grumpy]

I would think it's odd to nominate yourself for something.

Not in CAP.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I would think it's odd to nominate yourself for something.

Not in CAP.

We're all Volunteers, with varying degrees on involvement.

Some units are on top of things and recognize their folks. Others, have folks who could and should look like third world dictators with decorations, but have nothing to show. Some don't care/fume quietly. Others want the recognition. Neither is wrong (except for the fumers!).

We don't get paid. We do it because we want to. But, when you have a range of units "doing it right", not giving it out at all, and those that give it out left and right, some of the "candy" side of things can sour the rest of the folks.

If you want it, ask for it. But don't be surprised if it feels more hollow when you do it that way.

[flyboy53]

So, we're back full circle.

As I noted, assemble the facts or information and take it to your unit commander.

If you want help in crafting the nomination and the citations, please see the attached guide. Otherwise, p.m. me and maybe I can help.

Good Luck.

[JC004]

...
Wow.  Too bad there's not a sarcasm font.
...

I know that's right.

BTW, is your "well-placed friend" an imaginary friend who came here to post directly before you did, from, you know - your keyboard? 

Perhaps if you don't "yell" as you put it, people could benefit from the knowledge that you say that you and your friend (other account) have.

"Two......we get this all the time from former cadets who never really learn the lessons we try to impart.   SITUATIONAL LEADERSHIP.....this is not touchy feely BS this is real world leadership.....you use all the tools available because not everyone is the same.  Assuming that everyone has the same values as you....is a sign that you don't understand leadership."

Leadership?  You're demonstrating leadership to yourself by giving yourself an award, promotion, eval...whatever?

I thought we were talking about a person awarding their own perceived accomplishments, not another person.

I love how this always comes around to someone's assertion that former cadets don't understand leadership, and "never really learn."  Why?  Because intrepid leadership scholars on CAPtalk say so?   We are just grown up cadets who failed to attend the finishing school that being a SM provides?  We can't have possibly learned outstanding leadership as cadets and have had it reinforced in the non-CAP cadet world?  A difference of opinion on anything means we just didn't learn?

I learned a big thing from CAP:

Selfless service.

So.  I say I disagree with you, and the notion of putting yourself in for a commendation.

Define your terms:  I'm talking about commendations and achievement awards, not pay you've earned, or bulltet statements so your company commander doesn't have to write one for you.

You have your own opinions, and that's fine, but you can't try to kill a debate with "you don't understand leadership."

After my limited experience on CAPtalk I ask:  Is this a forum for debate about CAP, or not?  Are the mods going to go around and squash opinions, and lock threads when things are said you don't want to hear?

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't get something, or skipped the meeting they taught "leadership" in CAP.

I am not just a former cadet.  I am an adult, have been for a long time, and have been dealing with the real world for quite some time as well.   

Back to the topic of giving yourself commendations:

Use all tools available?  For self-aggrandizement?

That wouldn't float in my career world.  As one person posted, you'd be called a tool.

I don't appreciate that you insult our mods.  They don't do as you say.  They enforce the MCoC, which you have violated.

I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP.  I wouldn't do what this thread asks about personally, but whatever.  You are suggesting that because a couple people on one thread on CAPTalk would do this that the whole organization is a disaster now.  So fix it...or at least offer some suggestions to fix it.

[Eclipse]

As someone who has written, reviewed / signed, and / or up-channeled a fair amount of 120's, I have no issue with a member preparing either form itself
or a narrative supporting it, etc.   In some cases it is the only way to get all the details necessary to tell the "whole story"...

...however...

...the person who is being submitted for the decoration should never be the one signing as "requester", regardless of who actually typed the form, and
that includes for promotions and service awards.

The requester should always be "someone else", and the approver always the commander, especially at the unit level.

[jimmydeanno]

Sometimes, you gotta do whatcha gotta do. Sad, but true.

True on Active Duty, true at work, true in CAP.

Yes, can confirm this right now.  I and every other E6 & above had to write their own awards package for the deployment I'm on right now.  Only thing leadership did was tweak what we wrote.

There's a difference, though.  Your leadership said, "Hey, we think you're doing a bang up job.  We'd like to get you an award, write it up."

It seems that the OPs leadership isn't concerned about awarding the action in the first place, so it is follower initiated instead of leadership initiated. 

[lordmonar]

That's why you have Admin and Personnel Officers. 

[anonymous former c/col]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

[PHall]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

They don't go by opinions, they go by IP addresses. So unless you're sharing your computer...

[JC004]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

We do not make crazy accusations.

If clear, it would only be through the words of an anonymous individual, not through actions or in any way be tied to the reputation of a known person. 

[NCRblues]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

Are you showering us with your wisdom of years as a senior members in this organization?.... oh wait, i guess not, seeing as you have none.

Its always nice to hear from our Spaatz cadets that get triple diamond fever. I might report it to the CDC and see what they think about containing it....

[JC004]

That's about enough of all that.  "anonymous former c/col" is wasting our energy and that's silly for us to engage in.  Clearly there's a problem here and that can be taken care of elsewhere.

Back to the topic...

As someone who has written, reviewed / signed, and / or up-channeled a fair amount of 120's, I have no issue with a member preparing either form itself
or a narrative supporting it, etc.   In some cases it is the only way to get all the details necessary to tell the "whole story"...

...however...

...the person who is being submitted for the decoration should never be the one signing as "requester", regardless of who actually typed the form, and
that includes for promotions and service awards.

The requester should always be "someone else", and the approver always the commander, especially at the unit level.

I pretty much agree with Eclipse here, I guess. 

I've been asked to write recommendations for awards for myself twice (not in CAP) because I was supposed to be the person who knew the details best.  Luckily, I sucked someone else into doing it because I felt silly doing it and he knew enough about what I do to get it done well.  INITIATING my own award would be strange for me, but I guess that I can see the position of the folks who have Commanders who don't pay enough attention to awards.

I also can see the position of the folks who see others getting awards for what they view as much less than what they contribute, and those people feeling like they should get one if the other did.  WIWAC, I remember a lot of cadets getting upset about other cadets getting Commander's Commendations for just winning the color guard competition.  I know some of those cadets worked on things like program development and were offended that their contributions didn't get any attention from the SMs.  I fixed that in one case by writing my first F120...  I would think that this kind of thing would make some people feel like they should write their own if nobody else would do it.

[Eclipse]

I'd be curious, since we're on the topic, what the OP felt was so significant that it deserves a dec (to the point of being frustrated and writing his own).

Without any comment of the respective service (since I have no idea), competent execution of one's duties, even at the expense of copious amounts of time, do not necessarily rise to the level of decoration.  This is understandably frustrating, especially for new members, who see people they believe are
doing "less", yet they have more jelly beans and less open wall space.

If you read the actual guidelines and requirements for decorations, it can be pretty hard to actually meet the level of expectation for just about anything,
since the minimum is generally "over and above their peers".

On the one hand, just putting in the time and effort for most unit staff jobs is "commendable" in the abstract, especially since we're all volunteers.  On the other hand, getting past the gate of "minimum expectations" can be pretty hard when you look at what staffers are supposed to be doing as a matter of course.  The fact that it is "a lot of work" doesn't mean it is any different than others in the same boat, and in some cases it is because the
unit is so undermanned that people are burning themselves out wearing 5 hats.

[lordmonar]

I don't quite understand your position there Eclipse.

Either the standard is work up to such and such level.....and then everyone who reaches that level gets an award.

Or you look around you and Officers X, Y, Z getting awards for this level........but you do the same or more and get nothing.

I have read the guide lines and it is not hard to meet any of them.

Remember.......just volunteering and then doing the job.....any job already puts you above 50% or the rank and file of most CAP members.

So by using the average member theory of "above and beyond"  simply doing your job competantly already puts you in the upper percentile.

[ol'fido]

I see it as the difference between an objective standard(ex. Excuse me,sir, I have been a member for two years as of the 25th. Here is my 2a for a Red Service ribbon. Could I get your signature please.) and a subjective standard(ex. Excuse me , Sir, I feel that I have done some extraordinary work this past year that should be recognized the CAP Achievement Medal. Here is my CAPF 120. Could you sign it and give me my medal at the next awards ceremony. Thanks so much.)

Good, bad, or indifferent, we are at the mercy of the commanders whims in these cases. If they choose not to recognize you for outstanding work that is their perogative. If they feel your work doesn't stand out from the pack they may not feel you deserve to be recognized. How you deal with that is up to you. You can complain about it. You can transfer to another unit that is more "awards friendly". You can go join organizations that have nothing better to do than to hand out awards to their members.  I personally would feel about 2" tall putting myself in for an award, but that's just me being "subjective".

[JC004]

On a related note, I think this may be an opportunity for our personnel people, command people, and the like here to consider maybe using the Certificate of Appreciation more often (but not like crazy, so it becomes meaningless).  There is no ribbon, but it's a nice thing to give someone and will please most.

At least...once the unauthorized Triangle Thingy logo is off of it, it will be a nice thing.

You can also do your own unit awards and I encourage that as well.  As someone who came from a unit in which the members didn't get a lot of awards they deserve, I encourage all commanders to consider a unit awards program and CAP awards in general. 

The President's Volunteer Service Award is a good program to use for cadets and seniors.  The Congressional Award is great for cadets and young SMs.

[Spaceman3750]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

They don't go by opinions, they go by IP addresses. So unless you're sharing your computer...

Or a network. Similarly, at work, I can post on one day and post from the same computer the next day and not have the same IP address - we have a handful of external addresses.

[Eclipse]

Remember.......just volunteering and then doing the job.....any job already puts you above 50% or the rank and file of most CAP members.

So by using the average member theory of "above and beyond"  simply doing your job competantly already puts you in the upper percentile.

You missed my point - as an aggregate we're all commendable since we're all volunteers, but within that paradigm there are seat warmers and
those who go above and beyond.

Competent performance is the expectation, not something which is commendable within this context.

Probably the best example of this is the SUI and the expectations it sets for staff members.  A legit "Satisfactory" for a unit takes about 10 people
at  minimum focusing fairly heavily on just their staff jobs.  Anything above a sat means they are exceeding the checked boxes, probably
creating some new processes, and in general providing both their members and CAP, Inc. with a high ROI.

Outstanding?  I have yet to see a unit or wing that actually warranted it, and I've conducted and reviewed quite a few SUI's, and a few CI's as well.
This doesn't mean the efforts to maintain the squadron were unappreciated or unnecessary, etc., it simply means that the bar of "sat" is so high
already that most units have to reach pretty hard just to hit that level.  That's probably why the terminology was changed to "Successful", because
it doesn't marginalize the hard work of the unit staff as badly as "satisfactory" did, but it's still the same thing.

The same logic applies to staffers. 

Take a CAP mission pilot.  It's a far commitment and effort to become a Form 91 pilot, and moreso to maintain it. 
First, you have to be a pilot, which is no small feat these days, then you have to have a couple hundred hours, knock down a F5, and work through
2 Sqtrs (at least).  For most members that is a 1-2 year+ process.

But when you're done, you're "just" one of hundreds of other pilots, and while keeping up your hours, certs, and re-currency may be a lot of work,
especially if you have a life outside CAP, doing so "just" keeps you on the flight roster.  It takes more again to be considered for decs, be that
mission success, some outstanding related single achievement or "other". Granted "pilot" isn't actually a staff job, it was just a handy example.

I have to say that at the unit level, especially, it is very difficult to participate in activities that have the scope, sustained effort, or overall impact
to warrant decorations.  Most of the members I know who have been decorated have received them because of, or related to, activities outside
the normal routine of unit meetings and squadron administration, myself included.

[adamblank]

I would say as long as it is not out of control, write the ribbon...if ribbons make someone do awesome work for CAP, its not my top reason I want you doing great things, but it doesn't limit the organization in any way.

[anonymous former c/col]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

We do not make crazy accusations.

If clear, it would only be through the words of an anonymous individual, not through actions or in any way be tied to the reputation of a known person.

Crap.

This is reference to the above quote:

You made a false accusation.  Since you just admitted in PM that you know I am not posting under a different name, how about a public  apology, or a public admission you made a false accusation?


Mod Edit: Posts combined

[Майор Хаткевич]

What a great example of a Spaatz Prior...

[SarDragon]

I keep wondering what the Kool-Aid flavor is. 

[JC004]

I combined the posts for you since I think that is what you were trying to do.

Based on the information I have, there is an issue here that you can discuss with MIKE.

We are not discussing this on this thread anymore.  This thread is about awards.

[anonymous former c/col]

This is what it comes back to everytime with the same group of people:

1) I was a Spaatz cadet.

2) I am not, have not been, and will not be a senior.

In your eyes I don't have years of SM experience so my opinion as a former cadet doesn't matter.  My Spaatz must be tarnished from not going SM.  Nice message as a SM.  Cadets are inferior to you?

The moderator made a false accusation in a public forum, and it is not unreasonable to ask for an apology or admission.

As far as how this reflects on my status as a Spaatz... do you want my Spaatz crap?  I'm ready to throw it away with the way some of you attack people on this forum.

[SarDragon]

This is what it comes back to everytime with the same group of people:

1) I was a Spaatz cadet.

That's great. It means that you spent a lot of time and effort to achieve a worthwhile goal.

2) I am not, have not been, and will not be a senior.

Therein lies your problem. No matter how much time you spent as a cadet, you haven't "walked a mile in a senior member's shoes" to give you credibility in that area. They are two very different worlds, and you need to experience each to truly realize the differences.

In your eyes I don't have years of SM experience so my opinion as a former cadet doesn't matter.

Your opinion is important, as that of a former cadet. See above.

My Spaatz must be tarnished from not going SM.

Not really. That's a personal choice. I know others who have done the same thing, for their own reasons, and I have no isses with them, either. I left the program for six years, but came back because of the contributions I thought I could make.

Nice message as a SM.  Cadets are inferior to you?

Nope. Used to be one myself.

The moderator made a false accusation in a public forum, and it is not unreasonable to ask for an apology or admission.

And you have done nothing, as far as I know, to disprove the accusation. There are two people posting from the same IP. That generally indicates the same computer. It is highly unlikely that a random IP would come up for two different people, using different computers, on such a small forum. Do you have any explanations?

As far as how this reflects on my status as a Spaatz... do you want my Spaatz crap?  I'm ready to throw it away with the way some of you attack people on this forum.

Again, a personal choice.

In your initial post, you asked a couple of questions about days gone by, and were welcomed as a Spaatzen, and encouraged to resume participation in a couple of different ways. Then you got a really harsh attitude and a chip on your shoulder when some of the posts apparently offended you. Someone questioned your personal perception of the grand CAP timeline, and we almost had WW III. The Oakley thread was similarly disastrous.

Coming in here and throwing your weight around in a manner I perceive as "starry-eyed idealist" is NOT the way to win friends and influence people. BTDT, lost the t-shirt.

I have my own problems on here, and get called on them regularly. The tenor of my responses, however, differs significantly from yours. You might want to think about that a bit.

CAP is an imperfect world, but many of the folks on here are trying to improve things. We don't all agree. In some areas, there are almost as many opinions as there are active posters. But we still try.

[lordmonar]

This is what it comes back to everytime with the same group of people:

1) I was a Spaatz cadet.

Good on you....

2) I am not, have not been, and will not be a senior.

Then what are you doing here then?  No seriously.....you want to come here and tell us how to do things...and we are all doing wrong in your opinion.....why not put your money/time/effort where your mouth is?

In your eyes I don't have years of SM experience so my opinion as a former cadet doesn't matter.

Just because you graduate High School does not mean you are qualified to be teacher. 

My Spaatz must be tarnished from not going SM.

One wonders where we went wrong.....if you got to Spaatz and did not develope into someone who wants to give back to the organisation that helped form you as are today

Nice message as a SM.

How would you know....you've never been one nor sat on this side of the fence.

Cadets are inferior to you?

Well.....yes.....that's why the are cadets....if they were superior to me or my peers they would be called senior members.

The moderator made a false accusation in a public forum, and it is not unreasonable to ask for an apology or admission.

Sure if someone has made a false accusation....then one should own up to it.  However.....that's the flip side of dealing with anonymous people....you have no reputation to damage....ergo don't rate a full apology.

As far as how this reflects on my status as a Spaatz... do you want my Spaatz crap?  I'm ready to throw it away with the way some of you attack people on this forum.

Well.....let's be honest.....you started it.

[lordmonar]

Dave....you are reading my mind again!

[SarDragon]

I don't know what to say. 

[JC004]

It seems to me, over the time that you have been here, you have got an eye for an eye.  You started from almost the beginning with questioning people’s integrity, honor, leadership ability, and the like.  You personally attacked people like SARDragon.  People responded to you as you responded to them. 

You said things like “shameful,” and absolutely attacked people for applying for the Oakley program, quoting part of their page but not the information about the other individuals who are eligible.

You now seem more reasoned after MANY revisions (dozens) to your entries on this thread.  Now you can say that you are being attacked, now that you’ve removed your things about coming here because of a “well-placed” person (who is obviously better than us), calling CAP “pathetic,” saying “Time for self-examination: Is CAP filling some hole in your life and self-esteem that normal adult life isn't fulfilling?,” and otherwise meeting the expectations that people ALREADY have of you.

In my personal opinion, SARDragon and lordmonar are correct.  You have attacked people and the organization at the heart of who they are and what it is.  You’ve set this expectation of you since you started here and people have continuously reacted to you in the same way since you started with that.

In my moderator opinion, this thread has gotten out of control after I have warned twice about it going back on topic.  I hoped that after people had addressed your first attack, it would go back on track and stay there.  So my opinion there is that this thread must go for review by the senior moderators and is therefore temporarily LOCKED until they get to do that and either unlock it or fix what needs to be fixed.

As I have already said, you can take your issue up with MIKE.  The moderators here are fair, look at facts, consider things, VERY rarely block anyone, and if they make a mistake, they fix it.

Until then, if you feel the need to discuss what happens to Spaatz cadets who don’t become senior members but show up on forums decades later, start a thread on that.

Keep the following in mind IAW the forum rules:
1. You may not go rehash a locked thread.  If they want to unlock it (and they may), then they will.
2. You may not "redact" or otherwise nuke your posts, as is ALREADY the rule here.