Uniforms in COV

[JROB]

I have checked and rechecked the regulations. Does anyone know if a CAP uniform is required while operating a COV. I know that you have to wear one while in a CAP aircraft but not sure about ground vehicles.

Thanks
JROB

[Shotgun]

I looked this up awhile ago.

According to the CAP knowledge base:

There is no specific requirement for senior members to be in uniform while driving or riding in a CAP van unless they are participating in or conducting the cadet program. Note: The wing or region may have established such a requirement.

CAP uniform wear is required by all while participating in or conducting the cadet program or flying in CAP aircraft (corporate and member-owned aircraft used in CAP flight activity). If cadets and seniors working with cadets are traveling in a CAP vehicle while participating in the cadet program, they normally should be in uniform. However, the regulation does allow region or wing commanders, or designees (usually group or unit commanders), to prescribe the type clothing to be worn by members while flying or engaging in organized recreational activities. In this case cadets might be authorized by a commander to ride in CAP vehicles wearing civilian clothes. For example, during a volunteer clean up day or trip to a theme park or unit picnic or other social gathering, all CAP members would likely be in civilian clothes.

[Eclipse]

^ Yep.

[billford1]

 If you are called to go out with a Ground Team as part of an AFAM the common knowledge I hear is that you must be in a complete CAP uniform. I have heard stories of FECA claims being denied because of members wearing either an incomplete uniform or no uniform. I would like to see this confirmed. My position is that we should be in uniform.

[Eclipse]

The FECA warning is correct, the nay sayers hold it is not true, but the reality is that if you are hurt while on a mission,
there will be insurance people who's legitimate job it is to find a loophole to deny your claim.  Incorrect uniform is
an easy "get" - why make their jobs easier.

I know I certainly have no intention of being the test case just to make a point that "CAP can't tell me what to do."

The "Do I have to wear a uniform while driving a COV?" Is usually asked by GOB's who can't even be bothered to
throw on a golf shirt while driving a COV.

Bottom line answer is "Yes" with cadets in the vehicle, "Not necessarily" is not a mission and no cadets.

Bluelakes13 will now disagree.   

[RiverAux]

Actually, you're required to be in uniform while conducting any CAP activity (not just flying and the cadet program).  So, yes, you shoud be in uniform while in the van since driving the van implies you're doing so as part of a CAP activity and therefore need to be in uniform.

[Eclipse]

Actually, you're required to be in uniform while conducting any CAP activity (not just flying and the cadet program).  So, yes, you shoud be in uniform while in the van since driving the van implies you're doing so as part of a CAP activity and therefore need to be in uniform.

I'd agree to that.

[SARDOC]

Actually, you're required to be in uniform while conducting any CAP activity (not just flying and the cadet program).  So, yes, you shoud be in uniform while in the van since driving the van implies you're doing so as part of a CAP activity and therefore need to be in uniform.

You have to wear a uniform to "ANY" CAP activity???  I disagree there are some activities that do not require a uniform.  Weekly Meetings and Counter Drug are the two that immediately come to mind.

[davidsinn]

Actually, you're required to be in uniform while conducting any CAP activity (not just flying and the cadet program).

Please prove that. I tried and lost to the wing CV in a friendly competition. If I can prove it he owes me a beverage.

[Pylon]

You have to wear a uniform to "ANY" CAP activity???  I disagree there are some activities that do not require a uniform.  Weekly Meetings and Counter Drug are the two that immediately come to mind.

You only have to wear a uniform if you want to comply with CAP regulations.  CAPM 39-1, Table 1-1 (page 7). Wear of Uniforms.  "Members WEAR when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions."   Weekly meetings would absolutely constitute engaging in normal duties as a CAP member or attending a local CAP function.  So would driving a COV.


There's an optional column available next to this line item conspicuously unchecked, but will WEAR is checked instead.   That sends a pretty clear message that it's not optional.


There are exceptions, and those are noted under the DO NOT WEAR column.

[RiverAux]

No problem.  CAPM Table 1.1 The sixth box down has checked "wear uniform" next to "when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local, wing/region, or national CAP functions."

It was expanded from the old "cadets or flying" rule back when the current edition of 39-1 was published (though the current manual does still specifically state that uniforms need to be worn at those times). 

[Eclipse]

You have to wear a uniform to "ANY" CAP activity???  I disagree there are some activities that do not require a uniform.  Weekly Meetings and Counter Drug are the two that immediately come to mind.

CD falls into the operational category only when directed to do so by the client, otherwise they are like any other mission.

Why would you expect weekly meetings would be exempt from uniforms.  Hint, they aren't.

[davidsinn]

I don't know how many times I read that same table and missed that line. Thanks.

[exFlight Officer]

Ok, what about this situation;

A Senior Member is asked to take Squadron 1's van to Squadron 2 (on a Thursday) so they can use it for transportation to encampment the next day (Friday).  Would this Senior Member (driving the van alone) be required to wear a CAP Uniform ?

Clarification: I not asking because I hardly wear the uniform. I respect the CAP Uniform and am proud to wear it. 

[Pylon]

To me that falls under "normal duties as a CAP member" (which would require CAP uniform wear).  I understand there's a convenience factor in your situation but the regs are the regs.  And frankly even regs aside, it always looks a lot better from a public image standpoint for a member to be in proper uniform driving the marked COV than a random person in a t-shirt and jeans or something.  Even if it is a routine transport.

[Bluelakes 13]

Bluelakes13 will now disagree.   

Hey now, don't hate!   

I'm 50%-50% on this.  Yes, when conducting the Cadet Program we have to be in uniform.  But, we go out of our way to say that transport to and from an activity like Encampments, Cadet Competitions, KOR, etc are the responsibility of the members and not the activity.

Anyway, it's easy enough to through on the polo shirt, covered by my favorite Metallica jacket,  , that it's no big deal...

[exFlight Officer]

Thanks for the clarification! 

[Eclipse]

I'm 50%-50% on this.  Yes, when conducting the Cadet Program we have to be in uniform.  But, we go out of our way to say that transport to and from an activity like Encampments, Cadet Competitions, KOR, etc are the responsibility of the members and not the activity.

Agreed, but once you involve a COV, you're no longer just transporting, you're now on CAP time.

[SARDOC]

You have to wear a uniform to "ANY" CAP activity???  I disagree there are some activities that do not require a uniform.  Weekly Meetings and Counter Drug are the two that immediately come to mind.

CD falls into the operational category only when directed to do so by the client, otherwise they are like any other mission.

Why would you expect weekly meetings would be exempt from uniforms.  Hint, they aren't.

I actually agree but I continuously find statements like this one I found on gocivilairpatrol.com under Adult FAQ "Do I have to Wear a Uniform?"

Senior members may be required to wear a uniform during some activities - such as when flying in CAP aircraft. Senior members may wear the USAF style blue uniform or one of the distinctive CAP uniforms.  However, some members choose to serve quietly without wearing a uniform.  You can find purchase uniform items from Vanguard.  www.civilairpatrolstore.com

I don't know how someone can serve without wearing the Uniform at some point..but there it is.  Either someone at NHQ doesn't know the regs or they are being disingenuous.

[Eclipse]

Yes, the ones serving "quietly without a uniform" are, or should be, referred to as "patrons".

Just as in the military, LEA's, etc., there are times and places to be flexible on this, the expectation should be
that the majority of time members will be expected to be in a uniform.

We should stop trying to find ways to water things down and lower expectations and just work the program.