"I was recruited to be a..."

Started by Eclipse, March 23, 2011, 04:20:16 PM

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Eclipse

Quote from: Woodsy on March 23, 2011, 01:09:15 AM
It just seems to me CAP has a lot of hurry up and wait with training.   I was recruited to be a PAO. 

This from another thread (and I am not picking on Woodsy, we all know this is typical).

We should not be recrutting members to "be" anything.  This is epic and typical fail for CAP - bring in someone new who goes from
"slick sleeve" to "key player" in 1 month, and then we wonder why our staffers are clueless, overwhelmed, and burned out.  That
and the tired "I just joined to do 'x'..."

We should be recruiting "members", who will come to the meetings, see what CAP is all about, where the real needs are,
and whether and if their brown-bag skills® (the ones they bring form home) actually are needed in the unit they
joined.

"brown-bag skills®" is a registered trademark of eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium.  All Rights Reserved.

"That Others May Zoom"

manfredvonrichthofen

I came to cap for ES... And that is precisely what I am doing. I don't feel the slights bit burned out with what I do, nor do I feel as if I were ever told or lead to believe that I would be a key player from the get go. Heck I don't believe that I will ever become a key player. One thing that needs to be understood by everyone in CAP is that not every squadron is the same.

Phil Hirons, Jr.

If a squadron / group / wing cc sees a lack of talent in a given area of their staff, they shouldn't recruit to fill it? Ideally the group / wing cc would tap a lower echelon staffer for ADY or transfer, but the pipeline has to start somewhere.

Would the question be the same if it was legal officer, finance officer or IG?

As long as the prospect understands the situation and the available resources (next echelon staff, classes, regs) then go for it.
On the other side don't recruit a radio engineer with the promise of flying, ES etc. and then spring Comm officer on them. Some people enjoy exercising their profession for CAP and some would rather not.





Woodsy

no no no...  that was a fail on my part in wording...  let me rephrase that...  "recruited" to be wasn't the right choice of words looking back...  I started going to meetings on my own, having never really heard much about CAP...   Heard about it on the internet while looking at some 172 specs and saw a link on the 172 wikipedia page, followed it and thought it sounded cool....

After I had gone to several meetings and had already decided to join, it came up that they needed a PAO.  They asked me what I thought about it and I said I liked it.  So while I wasn't a member yet, it was part of the pre joining discussions about what I could do and what the units needs are. 

And I have by no means been taken from new member to key player, after several months I am still training and learning stuff about the job, and have not yet assumed the position, and won't for quite some time.  The current PAO has been an excellent mentor, spending lots of one on one time outside of CAP, taking me to lunch and talking about not only the PAO position, but all aspects of CAP.   They are taking their time making sure I know what I need to know in order to do the job right.  In fact, I have been told to slow it down a few times and let it all soak in. 


My apologies for the bad judgment of words! 

Eclipse

No one, and I mean no one, should be recruited to join CAP directly at the Group, Wing, or higher.  That is simply a bad idea.

And yes, that applies to Legal, FM, and IG - they are not "special", just because they are lawyers or CPA's, and the last thing you
want is someone with no understanding of CAP inspecting units.  We have enough of a difficult time with seasoned members who
can't interpret regs properly, let alone someone with a wet ID card.

The regs should stipulate a prohibition from key staff positions for 6 months, and command for one year.

"That Others May Zoom"

JeffDG

Quote from: Eclipse on March 23, 2011, 04:41:09 PM
No one, and I mean no one, should be recruited to join CAP directly at the Group, Wing, or higher.  That is simply a bad idea.

And yes, that applies to Legal, FM, and IG - they are not "special", just because they are lawyers or CPA's, and the last thing you
want is someone with no understanding of CAP inspecting units.  We have enough of a difficult time with seasoned members who
can't interpret regs properly, let alone someone with a wet ID card.

The regs should stipulate a prohibition from key staff positions for 6 months, and command for one year.
Conversely, what's so special about CAP?  Are our financial operations so complex that a CPA cannot handle the books for a Wing without working his way up?  Are our legal affairs so complex and convoluted that a practicing attorney cannot understand them and provide good legal advice to the Wing Commander?

If a wing has a need for qualified professionals, why should they be forced to wait for 6 months to receive it?  And if someone is providing advice to the Wing Commander while serving their time in the squadron, why shouldn't they have the title that goes with the professional advice they're providing?

Eclipse

No - neither is complex, but if you don't "get" CAP, then life if harder for everyone.  Being a CPA may actually make things more difficult for FMs.

Anyone with real experience and program knowledge who has ever been "told how things are" by someone with a wet ID card, understands the above.

Just the chain of command alone is difficult to understand until you've actually worked the process. 

Recruiting direct to higher echelons also steps on people with actual experience who want the job(s) but never hear about them.
What about the CPA's with Oak Leaves and 10 years in including 5 as a unit FM who are never asked because the Wing CC "knows a guy" and
then we have a SMWOG as the Wing Dir of Finance?

etc.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Why should we not be doing targeted recruiting?

If the guy is alread a professional in his field....then we just need to give him the CAP spin on things and move on.

Heck the USAF does this with doctors, lawyers, and chaplains......they already have the skill the USAF needs....they send them to the Officer Basic Short Course and then send them on their way.

I once knew a doctor who came into the USAF as full Col right out of OTS.

Staffers are clue less not because they were recruited and pushed into their jobs too soon.....but because they were never trained in the first place.  They were the only ones to volunteer.  But I see no reason why we should not "hire" a proffessional for the job and then get him up to speed on the CAP specifics.

It is easier to teach a professional PAO how to be  CAP PAO then it is to teach a CAP member how to be a professional PAO.

As for "I joined to do X"........well this is a volunteer organisation.....and people only have so much time to give.  I don't want to do external AE, DDR, PAO, Comm, Logistics, Finance, Fund Raising, IG, Legal, Medical, et al.....I joined to do CP and ES.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

jimmydeanno

#8
Yep, on of my last wings "recruited" someone to be the Wing Finance Director.  Really nice person, skilled in finance - but on week 1 didn't understand CAP.  It was right around when wing banker was being rolled out, so, we consolidated our accounts into one bank.  The problem was, that particular bank she picked only had 2 locations - in the same town, her town.  So, unless we started mailing cash, having to convert cash to money orders at our personal banks, etc we had no way to make deposits.  On week 1, she didn't quite get that the CAP Wing was the next step above local "chapters." 

I recruit people who have particular interests in certain portions of CAP all the time.  I just recruited a new senior member to be a character development officer, at our squadron.  She has lots of experience in stuff like that, and was interested in doing it after I showed her the materials. 
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

James Shaw

The commander of the unit I came back in through was still the commander 10 years later when I came back to the states. They asked me to come in for a specific "specialty track". I came in geared towards PAO from the start. It worked out for me pretty well. I was only able to go to one meeting a month and it was usually the promotions night.

I managed to pull off 56 articles and 47 pictures and PAO of the year from my wing my first year. I stayed with the unit for 4 years and then became a DDR Squadron Commander.

I think the direct recruitement depends on the task they are trying to get you to do.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on March 23, 2011, 04:20:16 PM
"brown-bag skills®" is a registered trademark of eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium.  All Rights Reserved.

Dude, I just totally LOL'd at my desk over this one.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

davidsinn

Quote from: NIN on March 23, 2011, 09:50:34 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 23, 2011, 04:20:16 PM
"brown-bag skills®" is a registered trademark of eClipseco Mining and Heavy Machinery Consortium.  All Rights Reserved.

Dude, I just totally LOL'd at my desk over this one.

My question is: Are they hiring?  ;D
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

RADIOMAN015

#12
It stands to reason that members who join should be able to perform in a function that they enjoy.  I happen to like radio.  By career I'm primarily an analyst (with some accounting responsibilities).  I do not want to come to CAP and work on the books after I've been at a computer all day doing basically the same thing ::)  The unit also had an issue with getting good PAO media coverage so I also volunteered to do most of this with good success, BUT do remind our leader that I would like someone else to at least assist, since I think EVERY position in CAP should have someone being trained or ready to take it over IF the primary gal/guy has to leave it, for whatever reason.

I think when one recruits adult members, there's at least got to be some review and understanding as to what they would like to do and also some sort of assessment (difficult I might add) as to whether they will be successful at what they think they want to do.

RM

SII-117

If you join CAP, you should be able to choose what you want to do.
If you are doing something you hate, then you will not give 100%
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup.

Eclipse

Quote from: SII-117 on March 29, 2011, 09:04:24 PM
If you join CAP, you should be able to choose what you want to do.
If you are doing something you hate, then you will not give 100%

Yes, by all means let's just all do what we want and leave the stuff we don't like for the "other guy"...

"That Others May Zoom"

FW

Of course we join CAP to do what we like.  I joined for the flying and ES and the Cadet program.  However, I was also needed to hep run the squadron.  Didn't mind at all; as long as I got to do the "good stuff".   

How I became the "other guy" is another story..... 8)

SARDOC

Our Last CC asked members to pick two Specialties...One from a list of positions that the squadron needs and one that the member "wants".  That way we can make them a productive member of the unit and ensure the unit functions well also while the member gets what they want out of the program.

wuzafuzz

I wasn't recruited into CAP, I sought it out after an almost 20 year absence.  My interest was communications and ground team.  The last thing I wanted to do was IT, since that's my day job.  I wound up being a PAO.  It was OK, but my heart wasn't in it.  In spite of that I had a good run for a few years.  I gave 100% to the job, yet I was thrilled when someone else wanted it.

Once the squadron communications officer job opened up I switched jobs and haven't looked back.  Now I'm on my wing communications staff and look forward to a lot more fun and learning.  I was more than willing to chip in where I could, but now that I'm doing what I joined to do I'm loving it all the more.

Edited to fix an oops!  Moving at "Internet speed" isn't always a good thing  ;)
"You can't stop the signal, Mal."

tsrup

It was explained to me at SLS like this.

A squadron has staff positions that need to be filled for the proper day to day operations of the squadron.

It's acceptable for someone to want to do something specific in CAP, and we like it when people have an idea of something they want to work towards, however if Joe-shmo CPA wants to joint the squadron to strictly do ES, and we have a need for a finance officer, guess what job that person is going to do.  Now that in no way shape or form means that he/she is restricted from doing ES stuff, that just means that he/she is also going to have to fill that need, at the very least until we find someone else.

It's was explained that CAP is a volunteer organization, you volunteer when you sign your paper work, and pay your dues.  Once that happens you're going to have to do what's best for the organization.  On the flip side, an effectively run squadron will do it's diligence to make sure that your personal goals are being met as well, such is the duty of the PD officer. 

Sometimes we all gotta do what needs to be done, regardless of how much we enjoy it, and hope that something awesome comes out of it.
Paramedic
hang-around.