Your mobile Communications set up

[cap235629]

How about a thread with pictures of CAP Mobile Communications set ups?  I don't want to turn this into a "whacker" thread but would love to see what some other folks/wings have done for installations.

What do you say?

[SABRE17]

i drive a 2005 Subaru outback with all my GT gear in the back. I put a magnetic multi band scanner antenna and a vhf xmit/receive antenna for my ht1000. had to find an HT1000 to BNC adapter in order to connect the two but hey i get better coverage

[Eclipse]

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4462.msg86539#msg86539

[Slim]

i drive a 2005 Subaru outback with all my GT gear in the back. I put a magnetic multi band scanner antenna and a vhf xmit/receive antenna for my ht1000. had to find an HT1000 to BNC adapter in order to connect the two but hey i get better coverage

And a radio that isn't technically NTIA compliant as a mobile (by attaching an external antenna and/or external power to it).  Which is what has kept me from acquiring a convertacom for my MT-2000.

I know, I know.  Good luck finding someone who will know this, and say something to you about it.  Then again, there's that whole integrity thing.

[SABRE17]

i don't see how that's NTIA in-compliant, that would be like saying snipers cant use scopes because the Geneva convention said they cant. (obviously not true)

[SarDragon]

Handhelds and mobiles have different NTIA specs. Attaching an external antenna to a handheld makes it a mobile, and in many cases the handhelds doesn't meet the specs for a mobile.

[argentip]

The DCs have asked NHQ and the NTC for permission do add external antennas to the EFJ portables many times, and the answer always comes back as, "It will no longer be compliant if you do that."  This same ruling applies to all portables.

[wuzafuzz]

Rats!  I thought for sure I had some photos of the install I did in our squadron van.  Still digging and will post when I find them, or take new ones.

Since we had no supplies other than the radio, I bolted a 2x4 (painted black) to the side of the drivers seat base.  The radio bracket is attached to that.  It kicks it out far enough that it isn't smashed against the seat cushion.  The 2x4 was left large enough to accommodate a second radio or scanner.

I would have preferred to mount the radio between the driver and pax seat but that space need to be clear to remove the engine cover. That and my metal fabrication skills are non-existent.      

[wuzafuzz]

I found the pictures shortly after the last post.  Why they were in a directory of family photos is a mystery! 

Sorry for the lousy cell phone photos.

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

At least the mic is centrally located!
http://flic.kr/p/96aoca

Edited because Flickr URL's were driving me nuts.

[arajca]

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

Yes, but the passenger/navigator can't. Plus you have to lay across the driver's lap to read the channel.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

Yes, but the passenger/navigator can't. Plus you have to lay across the driver's lap to read the channel.

In our squadron's van the radio is located right to the front of the center console, facing up. It is really nice because even the passenger in the seat right behind the driver/TC (or whatever it is called in CAP that sits in the front passenger seat) can reach it really easily and even change channels if needed. If I were to mount one in my POV I would put it inside of the floor console so that it can be locked and hidden when I go to Wal*mart.

[jeders]

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

Yes, but the passenger/navigator can't. Plus you have to lay across the driver's lap to read the channel.

Looks to me like the passenger would have no problem changing channels. And why would anyone have to lay across the drivers lap? Fuzz, am I wrong that it's mounted to the inside (i.e. between the driver and passenger) of the drivers seat, not the outside?

[wuzafuzz]

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

Yes, but the passenger/navigator can't. Plus you have to lay across the driver's lap to read the channel.

Accurate points both.  Results of a no-budget "get it done yesterday so we don't fail wing inspection" set of marching orders.  Eventually I'd like to take the time to do better.  Post all those photos of your installs!  ;-)

[wuzafuzz]

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

Yes, but the passenger/navigator can't. Plus you have to lay across the driver's lap to read the channel.

Looks to me like the passenger would have no problem changing channels. And why would anyone have to lay across the drivers lap? Fuzz, am I wrong that it's mounted to the inside (i.e. between the driver and passenger) of the drivers seat, not the outside?

It is on the side of the seat facing the passenger.  Other folks can, and have, changed channels.  I've toyed with facing the display toward the passenger.  Doesn't make much difference.

[arajca]

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

Yes, but the passenger/navigator can't. Plus you have to lay across the driver's lap to read the channel.

Accurate points both.  Results of a no-budget "get it done yesterday so we don't fail wing inspection" set of marching orders.  Eventually I'd like to take the time to do better.  Post all those photos of your installs!  ;-)

Once I get the replacement van, I'll do that. The current van has 92K - 14K last year alone. Wing has said they're going to rotate it for one with fewer miles since we didn't get any new ones this year.

[Spaceman3750]

Any good way to set up the mobile EFJ's without direct wiring or permanently mounting?

[SABRE17]

i actually had an idea about that i was thinking about mounting the radio on a piece of wood, and wiring in a 12V AC car adapter and using a magnetic mount antenna then you can just put it on your dashboard or passenger seat.

[cap235629]

Check the specs on your vehicle's power point.  My Toyota has a rating of 200W max for all power points combined (there are 2). The CAP EFJ 5317 Stealth draws 50 watts dead key.  If it is an isolated circuit (as most are) you can use a cigarette lighter plug. Make sure the plug is rated for 10 amps. You will have to tie the small wire in to the main power wire, but it works.  I have been running this exact set up for almost 4 years without an issue.  My Wing DC who is also on the National Communications Team has inspected and approved it (although begrudgingly because not all vehicle are wired this way and he prefers direct wire to avoid issues with those that are not).  The key is to know and understand your equipment.

[cap235629]

i actually had an idea about that i was thinking about mounting the radio on a piece of wood, and wiring in a 12V AC car adapter and using a magnetic mount antenna then you can just put it on your dashboard or passenger seat.

what do you mean by a 12V AC car adapter?

Any good way to set up the mobile EFJ's without direct wiring or permanently mounting?

See my post above, I have the radio "wedged" between my passenger seat and center console.  With the power plug and a magnetic mount antenna I am able to quickly move the radio to whatever vehicle I happen to be driving

[Eclipse]

Any good way to set up the mobile EFJ's without direct wiring or permanently mounting?

Since these pictures we bought a digital power supply small enough to fit in the same case and with enough power for
two EFJ's.  It'll weigh a ton, but be much handier.

This is basically the preferred use of a mobile radio in your (our) wing.  Contact the DC for assistance.

[Eclipse]

Check the specs on your vehicle's power point.  My Toyota has a rating of 200W max for all power points combined (there are 2). The CAP EFJ 5317 Stealth draws 50 watts dead key.  If it is an isolated circuit (as most are) you can use a cigarette lighter plug. Make sure the plug is rated for 10 amps. You will have to tie the small wire in to the main power wire, but it works.  I have been running this exact set up for almost 4 years without an issue.  My Wing DC who is also on the National Communications Team has inspected and approved it (although begrudgingly because not all vehicle are wired this way and he prefers direct wire to avoid issues with those that are not).  The key is to know and understand your equipment.

Mine is direct-wired to the cigarette circuit, and I also have a back-up lighter adapter and have had no issues.

Rather than a piece of wood, I would suggest an old-school slide-mount, which would look a lot cleaner.

[Spaceman3750]

Any good way to set up the mobile EFJ's without direct wiring or permanently mounting?

Since these pictures we bought a digital power supply small enough to fit in the same case and with enough power for
two EFJ's.  It'll weigh a ton, but be much handier.

This is basically the preferred use of a mobile radio in your (our) wing.  Contact the DC for assistance.

Oh, that's really nice. I'm going to take a look at that. Thanks!

[wuzafuzz]

Any good way to set up the mobile EFJ's without direct wiring or permanently mounting?

Since these pictures we bought a digital power supply small enough to fit in the same case and with enough power for
two EFJ's.  It'll weigh a ton, but be much handier.

This is basically the preferred use of a mobile radio in your (our) wing.  Contact the DC for assistance.

What kind of box is that?  I like it.

I've been looking for a sturdy carrying case like that, to minimize wear and tear on the radio's connectors.  Yet something small enough to easily fit in our planes for transport.  Typical 19" rack cases are a bit large for that.

[Eclipse]

They are 30 rounds boxes for 25MM linked M793 ammunition from the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.

You can usually find them on eBay or other sources for $10 to 20.  I see at least three on there right now.
Icenine has found them in lots of ten for $10 each.

Fully submersible before modifications, and seriously heavy duty.  The config we use has a gel-cel battery that provides about
an hour of full-power radio use when fully-charged.  I think I have about 4-5 of these in  use in my units, and we have them all
over the wing to the point where they are pretty much expected at most missions.

Last I checked the wing DC was able to put the whole package together, radio-ready, for about $50.

I added a 12-foot light stand tripod-mounted VHF antenna with 50' of coax in a PVC tube for the full go-kit.  The nice thing is that these
are radio-agnostic so the unit can be pulled out for service or replacement and the carrier can be reused.

[SarDragon]

Check the specs on your vehicle's power point.  My Toyota has a rating of 200W max for all power points combined (there are 2). The CAP EFJ 5317 Stealth draws 50 watts dead key.  If it is an isolated circuit (as most are) you can use a cigarette lighter plug. Make sure the plug is rated for 10 amps. You will have to tie the small wire in to the main power wire, but it works.  I have been running this exact set up for almost 4 years without an issue.  My Wing DC who is also on the National Communications Team has inspected and approved it (although begrudgingly because not all vehicle are wired this way and he prefers direct wire to avoid issues with those that are not).  The key is to know and understand your equipment.

A 10  amp circuit won't hack the load. The radio draws 12A when transmitting.

[Eclipse]

A 10  amp circuit won't hack the load. The radio draws 12A when transmitting.

Man do they ever!  Our trailer batteries can hack two radios keying up at the same time, but they aren't happy about it.

I think my truck circuit is 15 - though I am not sure how big the penny I put in there actually is.

[wuzafuzz]

They are 30 rounds boxes for 25MM linked M793 ammunition from the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.

You can usually find them on eBay or other sources for $10 to 20.  I see at least three on there right now.
Icenine has found them in lots of ten for $10 each.

Fully submersible before modifications, and seriously heavy duty.  The config we use has a gel-cel battery that provides about
an hour of full-power radio use when fully-charged.  I think I have about 4-5 of these in  use in my units, and we have them all
over the wing to the point where they are pretty much expected at most missions.

Last I checked the wing DC was able to put the whole package together, radio-ready, for about $50.

I added a 12-foot light stand tripod-mounted VHF antenna with 50' of coax in a PVC tube for the full go-kit.  The nice thing is that these
are radio-agnostic so the unit can be pulled out for service or replacement and the carrier can be reused.

Thanks for the scoop!

[cap235629]

Check the specs on your vehicle's power point.  My Toyota has a rating of 200W max for all power points combined (there are 2). The CAP EFJ 5317 Stealth draws 50 watts dead key.  If it is an isolated circuit (as most are) you can use a cigarette lighter plug. Make sure the plug is rated for 10 amps. You will have to tie the small wire in to the main power wire, but it works.  I have been running this exact set up for almost 4 years without an issue.  My Wing DC who is also on the National Communications Team has inspected and approved it (although begrudgingly because not all vehicle are wired this way and he prefers direct wire to avoid issues with those that are not).  The key is to know and understand your equipment.

A 10  amp circuit won't hack the load. The radio draws 12A when transmitting.

Amps= watts/volts

So a 50 watt radio at 12 volts draws 4.1666 amps

The plug needs to be rated for 10 amps, not the circuit.

[SarDragon]

Check the specs on your vehicle's power point.  My Toyota has a rating of 200W max for all power points combined (there are 2). The CAP EFJ 5317 Stealth draws 50 watts dead key.  If it is an isolated circuit (as most are) you can use a cigarette lighter plug. Make sure the plug is rated for 10 amps. You will have to tie the small wire in to the main power wire, but it works.  I have been running this exact set up for almost 4 years without an issue.  My Wing DC who is also on the National Communications Team has inspected and approved it (although begrudgingly because not all vehicle are wired this way and he prefers direct wire to avoid issues with those that are not).  The key is to know and understand your equipment.

A 10  amp circuit won't hack the load. The radio draws 12A when transmitting.

Amps= watts/volts

So a 50 watt radio at 12 volts draws 4.1666 amps

The plug needs to be rated for 10 amps, not the circuit.

Trust me, the circuit needs to be rated for the current draw, too. Why do you think the wires for the starter are so fat compared to the rest of the vehicle? Because of the current draw.

I have the complete wiring diagrams for my Suburban, and the wires in the 15 amp circuits are fatter than the wires in the 10 amp circuits. Similar size relationships exist for higher current circuits.

Also, relating the radio RF output power to the power circuit current draw doesn't work. There are different component involved in the calculations. There is no direct relation between the two.

[cap235629]

Check the specs on your vehicle's power point.  My Toyota has a rating of 200W max for all power points combined (there are 2). The CAP EFJ 5317 Stealth draws 50 watts dead key.  If it is an isolated circuit (as most are) you can use a cigarette lighter plug. Make sure the plug is rated for 10 amps. You will have to tie the small wire in to the main power wire, but it works.  I have been running this exact set up for almost 4 years without an issue.  My Wing DC who is also on the National Communications Team has inspected and approved it (although begrudgingly because not all vehicle are wired this way and he prefers direct wire to avoid issues with those that are not).  The key is to know and understand your equipment.

A 10  amp circuit won't hack the load. The radio draws 12A when transmitting.

Amps= watts/volts

So a 50 watt radio at 12 volts draws 4.1666 amps

The plug needs to be rated for 10 amps, not the circuit.

Trust me, the circuit needs to be rated for the current draw, too. Why do you think the wires for the starter are so fat compared to the rest of the vehicle? Because of the current draw.

I have the complete wiring diagrams for my Suburban, and the wires in the 15 amp circuits are fatter than the wires in the 10 amp circuits. Similar size relationships exist for higher current circuits.

Also, relating the radio RF output power to the power circuit current draw doesn't work. There are different component involved in the calculations. There is no direct relation between the two.

The accessory outlet circuit in my Toyota is a 20 amp circuit.  This is why the DC has concerns about this type of arrangement, because not all vehicles are wired that way.  If your vehicle does not have a dedicated power point circuit, chances are that the wiring will not handle the load.

[Eclipse]

Trust me, the circuit needs to be rated for the current draw, too. Why do you think the wires for the starter are so fat compared to the rest of the vehicle? Because of the current draw.

Personally, that warm red glow that comes from under the dash when I use my radio makes me smile and keeps me warm in the winter!

Now that I think about it - I think my permanent-mounted radio is wired direct to the battery for main power with a jumper to something
that turns on with the car for the sense leg.

It's only when we use a second radio that I use the accessory outlet.

[Spaceman3750]

EDIT: Nevermind...

[commando1]

Ok so I work for the police dept in the city where work so I bought a Bearcat NASCAR handheld scanner to keep up with what is going on. I realized on my last SAREX that the scanner will also pick up CAP broadcasts (duh). You can't transmit obviously but it is a cheap and simple way to listen to the CAP radio especially on the way to or from a mission. 

[JoeTomasone]

Personally, I prefer direct (and PROPERLY FUSED) cable from the battery, terminating just inside the cab with a Powerpole (or other safe connector that allows quick installation and removal).   However, in my case, the power outlet has enough amperage to power an EFJ @ high power, so that's what I have typically used. 

Not so easy: Antenna and rig mounting on my beast.   

[IceNine]

That's what I did.

#10's through a rubber boot in the firewall, terminating in a delco weather tight connector (EFJ factory connector).  When I get rid of the truck I pull them out and the only remnant is a small hole in a rubber boot that no one will ever see.

EXCEPT that the antenna is drilled through the top, but they make NMO plugs for just that reason.

[cap235629]

Well I am the one who started this thread so I guess it is about time that I posted some pictures of the recent install I did in our Squadrons new van.  The van had 18 miles on it when I picked it up.  I was able to convince the Wing Commander to purchase an actual console for it.  His rationale was that we will have the van for at least 10-15 years and the expense was minimal if you broke it down over the lifetime of the vehicle.  That coupled with the fact that we can move the console to another vehicle was the clincher.

18" Troy Console with CAP VHF, LPER, and Arkansas AWIN statewide interoperability trunked radio and 3 power points.  We have room to install the control head for the HF Mobile when the time comes.

[SARJunkie]

very nice!

[wuzafuzz]

Slick install.  How does the engine cover come off with the console there? 

[IceNine]

I finally got

And made the list of everything needed for the jump kit radio Eclipse posted earlier.  This list is specific to the EFJ's but could easily be modified for any radio.  You will simply need to ensure all the power adapters and antenna connectors match your setup.

You need:



- Samlex BBM-1225 Battery Backup Module

- 12 V 7ah
Sealed lead acid battery (gel cell)  - I use this one

- Female to female bulkhead adapter (Type N for EFJ)

- Mobile radio mount specific to your radio.  There are several universal models available as well.  I would also recommend replacing the factory mounting hardware with something much smaller.  The molded thumb screws can take up valuable real estate inside this configuration.

- Power harness specific to your radio.  The side that is not connected to your radio will have the wires cut and connected to an anderson powerpole.  Make sure you have extra's just in case.  I chose to use the delco weather tight connector supplied with the EFJ's

- Several Pigtails. I carry Anderson Powerpole to
   - Anderson Powerpole
   - Molex
   - Spade Connector
   - Delco Weather tight
   - Several with bare ends for custom setup on the fly.

-Powerpole Mounting Clamp Pair for 2 or 4 PP15/30/45 Powerpoles
  -30 Amp Unassembled Red/Black Anderson Powerpole Sets

- (2) 1/4"-20 x 3 1/2" carriage bolts
- (2) 1/4"-20 x 1" carriage bolts
- (4) 1/4"-20 nuts
- (2) 1/4"-20 wing nuts
- (4) 1/4" fender washers
- (8") 1/2 or 3/4 metal flat stock

- Shrink tube large enough to fit around your flat stock

- Small tube of silicone ( to seal around carriage bolts)

Tools:
- Drill
- 1/4" drill bit (for plastic and steel)
- 7/16" wrench

I will post detailed pictures when my "real" camera gets here next week. 

In the mean time I stand-by to answer questions

[indygreg]

Does anyone have any experience with this:

http://www.powerportstore.com/RadioBox%20AR.htm

[Spaceman3750]

I finally got

And made the list of everything needed for the jump kit radio Eclipse posted earlier.  This list is specific to the EFJ's but could easily be modified for any radio.  You will simply need to ensure all the power adapters and antenna connectors match your setup.

You need:



- Samlex BBM-1225 Battery Backup Module

- 12 V 7ah
Sealed lead acid battery (gel cell)  - I use this one

- Female to female bulkhead adapter (Type N for EFJ)

- Mobile radio mount specific to your radio.  There are several universal models available as well.  I would also recommend replacing the factory mounting hardware with something much smaller.  The molded thumb screws can take up valuable real estate inside this configuration.

- Power harness specific to your radio.  The side that is not connected to your radio will have the wires cut and connected to an anderson powerpole.  Make sure you have extra's just in case.  I chose to use the delco weather tight connector supplied with the EFJ's

- Several Pigtails. I carry Anderson Powerpole to
   - Anderson Powerpole
   - Molex
   - Spade Connector
   - Delco Weather tight
   - Several with bare ends for custom setup on the fly.

-Powerpole Mounting Clamp Pair for 2 or 4 PP15/30/45 Powerpoles
  -30 Amp Unassembled Red/Black Anderson Powerpole Sets

- (2) 1/4"-20 x 3 1/2" carriage bolts
- (2) 1/4"-20 x 1" carriage bolts
- (4) 1/4"-20 nuts
- (2) 1/4"-20 wing nuts
- (4) 1/4" fender washers
- (8") 1/2 or 3/4 metal flat stock

- Shrink tube large enough to fit around your flat stock

- Small tube of silicone ( to seal around carriage bolts)

Tools:
- Drill
- 1/4" drill bit (for plastic and steel)
- 7/16" wrench

I will post detailed pictures when my "real" camera gets here next week. 

In the mean time I stand-by to answer questions

I don't suppose you had a chance to take those pictures? Thanks .

[arajca]

Radio bolted to the side of the seat.  Crummy location but a decent operator can change channels without looking. 
http://flic.kr/p/96aodH

Yes, but the passenger/navigator can't. Plus you have to lay across the driver's lap to read the channel.

Accurate points both.  Results of a no-budget "get it done yesterday so we don't fail wing inspection" set of marching orders.  Eventually I'd like to take the time to do better.  Post all those photos of your installs!  ;-)

Once I get the replacement van, I'll do that. The current van has 92K - 14K last year alone. Wing has said they're going to rotate it for one with fewer miles since we didn't get any new ones this year.

Since wing decided not to rotate vans, I made the install in the current van.

At this time, only the upper EFJ is operational. I still have to do the electrical and antenna installs and install the other part of the HF. I am planning to have most of it done by the COWG conf in early April. (no promises, though).

Not quite as pretty as some, but it works and it can be pivoted up (hinged at the rear) for access to the doghouse and for operational use as field communications unit.