Honor Guard Shoulder Cords

[jeders]

Show any reg that says even one cord is permanent, or sit quietly in the corner.

Well nothing's truly permanent, but...

5-5. Shoulder Cords. Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets only to denote special honor positions or
may be authorized by the wing commander for special purpose activities (see Table 1-4). Not more than
one shoulder cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (Figure 5-2).
Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets at all times. Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder
seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

I don't know about you, but to me it seems like that sentence means it may be worn whether you're doing the duty or not, as long as you meet the "special position/purpose" requirement.

[Eclipse]

I don't know about you, but to me it seems like that sentence means it may be worn whether you're doing the duty or not, as long as you meet the "special position/purpose" requirement.

Of course, but only if you are qualified to wear it at all. 

That verbiage doesn't specify the award, it specifies the wear once awarded.  With your logic, every cadet would wear whatever cord they wanted, whenever they wanted.

A cadet not part of a formal NCC Color Guard team isn't qualified to wear the cord to start with.

Another example is the CAC cord, worn only by the primary's (ies?) and only while serving in the office.

[jeders]

I don't know about you, but to me it seems like that sentence means it may be worn whether you're doing the duty or not, as long as you meet the "special position/purpose" requirement.

Of course, but only if you are qualified to wear it at all. 

That verbiage doesn't specify the award, it specifies the wear once awarded.  With your logic, every cadet would wear whatever cord they wanted, whenever they wanted.

A cadet not part of a formal NCC Color Guard team isn't qualified to wear the cord to start with.

Another example is the CAC cord, worn only by the primary's (ies?) and only while serving in the office.

Actually that's not what my logic says, I said only if you're qualified to wear/continue wearing it.

[Eclipse]

Actually that's not what my logic says, I said only if you're qualified to wear/continue wearing it.

But that's the point - the only way to be "qualified" is to be on a team.

[jeders]

Actually that's not what my logic says, I said only if you're qualified to wear/continue wearing it.

But that's the point - the only way to be "qualified" is to be on a team.

I'm not disputing that.

I was responding to Ice saying...

Show any reg that says even one cord is permanent, or sit quietly in the corner.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[ßτε]

I hate to throw another wrench in the discussion, but has anyone read paragraph 3.1 of CAPM 39-1?

3-1. General. This chapter prescribes the standardized uniform worn by Civil Air Patrol honor guards. This uniform is approved for wear during honor guard duties and performances only. Only those items described in this chapter may be worn. Items such as blue ascots with BDU, boots with the service dress uniform, swords, "Smokie Bear" hats, etc., are not permitted. National Cadet Competition drill teams, color guards, or other CAP special teams will not wear this uniform. The honor guard uniform consists of the service dress uniform coat with epaulets and slacks/trousers, male service cap with cadet officer cap device, white ascot with Honor Guard patch, metallic silver shoulder cord, white pistol belt, white gloves, and a brown non-operating parade rifle with white leather sling. Helmets or helmet liners will not be used. Either the old or new style of service dress may be worn; however, all members of an honor guard should be in the same style, if possible. Bayonets, swords, or sabers will not be used under any circumstances. This uniform is authorized for year-round wear. The colors element flag bearers will wear white flag slings instead of white pistol belts. The guards will wear pistol belts. See Table 3-1 for specific uniform requirements.

Also, I would argue that the shoulder cords listed in para 5-5 are not the same as these.

[HGjunkie]

Depending on how you interpret that, that could mean either you can't wear the entire HG uniform unless you're in a perfomance, or you can't wear any of the individual pieces of the HG uniform unless you're in a preformance. The latter doesn't make any sense because of this:

3-1. General. This chapter prescribes the standardized uniform worn by Civil Air Patrol honor guards. This uniform is approved for wear during honor guard duties and performances only. Only those items described in this chapter may be worn. Items such as blue ascots with BDU, boots with the service dress uniform, swords, "Smokie Bear" hats, etc., are not permitted. National Cadet Competition drill teams, color guards, or other CAP special teams will not wear this uniform. The honor guard uniform consists of the service dress uniform coat with epaulets and slacks/trousers, male service cap with cadet officer cap device, white ascot with Honor Guard patch, metallic silver shoulder cord, white pistol belt, white gloves, and a brown non-operating parade rifle with white leather sling. Helmets or helmet liners will not be used. Either the old or new style of service dress may be worn; however, all members of an honor guard should be in the same style, if possible. Bayonets, swords, or sabers will not be used under any circumstances. This uniform is authorized for year-round wear. The colors element flag bearers will wear white flag slings instead of white pistol belts. The guards will wear pistol belts. See Table 3-1 for specific uniform requirements.

[Eclipse]

I was responding to Ice saying...

Show any reg that says even one cord is permanent, or sit quietly in the corner.

Nothing more, nothing less.

OK, but he's right - they are all badges of current position, not permanent awards.

[IceNine]

Actually that's not what my logic says, I said only if you're qualified to wear/continue wearing it.

But that's the point - the only way to be "qualified" is to be on a team.

I'm not disputing that.

I was responding to Ice saying...

Show any reg that says even one cord is permanent, or sit quietly in the corner.

Nothing more, nothing less.

And yet you proved my point.

I can wear my Membership Ribbon Forever and ever until I die making it a permanent award.  I used to be on the Region CAC and they gave me a CAC ribbon that I can wear forever and ever until I die.  They took away my pretty blue cord.

I went to the NHGA the very first year it was an NCSA in Virginia Beach, and got all my Honor Guard paraphernalia.  When I got home it sat neatly in my closet until it was time for me to honor or guard something.

Cords are tied to duties and that is a hard fast rule (in CAP).  Honor Guard/Color Guard are only duties while you are actually doing those things.

[CAP277]

Pretty straight forward, CAPM 39-1 Page 13, Table 1-3 Line 3: Items that may be authorized
"The wing/region commander has authority to approve the following items for wear within his/her wing: (a) Shoulder cords. Not more than one shoulder cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (see Figure   . Color to be determined by the wing commander, EXCEPT all primary members of Cadet Advisory Councils will wear gold at the National level, blue at region level, and red at wing level. (See CAPR 52-16, CAP Cadet Program Management.) National Cadet Competition teams will wear white shoulder cords. Honor Guardsmen will wear silver shoulder cords; (b) scarves; (c) white gloves; (d) white and black belts; (e) helmet liners. Color to be determined by wing commander except that helmet liners authorized for wear by members participating in emergency services missions will be white and will be worn with the decal depicted in Figure   ."

So all those items may be approved by wing kings and region commanders but that EXCEPTION clearly says Honor Guardsmens WILL WEAR shoulder bords, doesn't say anything about only while performing.

[SarDragon]

It appears that the quote you highlighted is merely a specification of color, and nothing more.

[nesagsar]

In my squadron it was considered proper to wear your ribbon at all times and wear the cord only while performing the function.

[Bluelakes 13]

Cords are tied to duties and that is a hard fast rule (in CAP).  Honor Guard/Color Guard are only duties while you are actually doing those things.

:clap:

[Bluelakes 13]

The concept is that you are 'the team' until the next year's competition when the next year's team (winner) is selected.

Sorry, Dan, but I disagree.  The team ends the night of the awards banquet.  A new team can start rebuilding the night after. Technically, team members are not official until the first approved roster by CC, which usually happens before the Wing Competition.

[Hawk200]

So all those items may be approved by wing kings and region commanders but that EXCEPTION clearly says Honor Guardsmens WILL WEAR shoulder bords, doesn't say anything about only while performing.

That's a rather common sense issue. If you're not performing, you're not Honor Guard. Even the Air Force only allows wear of Honor Guard items while actually performing Honor Guard duties. I may not agree with some of the AF HG policies, but I think that's one to mirror.

Some people too hung up on bling, thinking it makes them better than someone else. People also need to realize that there is a time and place for everything, and every little thing is not all the time. I see a problem when people want to wear performance items when not performing.

[Tim Medeiros]

Your all ignoring another reg, CAPR 52-16, quoted in the reply #9.

Remember, this is CAP, a topic can come up in any number of regulations.  Nowhere in that reg does it say "while performing duties only", only "members of *NCC teams/Honor Guard* are authorized".

[HGjunkie]

Also, I would argue that the shoulder cords listed in para 5-5 are not the same as these.

5-5. Shoulder Cords. Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets only to denote special honor positions or
may be authorized by the wing commander for special purpose activities (see Table 1-4). Not more than
one shoulder cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (Figure 5-2).
Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets at all times. Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder
seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

What other shoulder cords are there?

[Hawk200]

Your all ignoring another reg, CAPR 52-16, quoted in the reply #9.

Remember, this is CAP, a topic can come up in any number of regulations.  Nowhere in that reg does it say "while performing duties only", only "members of *NCC teams/Honor Guard* are authorized".

That is a problem as well. Referencing uniform wear in publications other than the uniform manual creates problems of "where do I find authorization for this?"

Best to use one pub for one particular subject. It's a different manner to say in a pub of different subject that only a particular uniform can be worn. It's another thing altogether to change or authorize additional items over the basic uniform.

[Tim Medeiros]

Your all ignoring another reg, CAPR 52-16, quoted in the reply #9.

Remember, this is CAP, a topic can come up in any number of regulations.  Nowhere in that reg does it say "while performing duties only", only "members of *NCC teams/Honor Guard* are authorized".

That is a problem as well. Referencing uniform wear in publications other than the uniform manual creates problems of "where do I find authorization for this?"

Best to use one pub for one particular subject. It's a different manner to say in a pub of different subject that only a particular uniform can be worn. It's another thing altogether to change or authorize additional items over the basic uniform.

Agreed, however that is a discussion for a different thread, unless the OP wouldn't mind a change of topic since this has been technically answered.