Duty Performance Promotion Blues

[Pylon]

I was at a meeting yesterday where my wing commander stated that he expects everyone to complete the PD requirements for their grade. He stated that we are "corporate" officers who should not expect to do one "thing"( i.e. flying, HSO, legal, et al) to the exclusion of the rest of the program. I, myself, was indifferent to the idea but after hearing his explanation, I find that I agree with him.

Poor choice of wording, however.  Corporate officers means something entirely different in CAP:  members who are on the corporation's national board of directors, and legally empowered to obligate the corporation (aka: Wing/Region/National Commander and a select group of others).

[ol'fido]

Granted, but you get my point, right?

[flyboy53]

Granted, but you get my point, right?

You mean your commander's point; which I'm assuming to mean professionalism. It has nothing to do with individuals who chose to only fly or be communicators or some other speciality. As a former group commander, I would agree with him sans the reference to corporate officers because that last corporate officer in any wing is the wing commander. The rest of us are all volunteers.

I have earned a GRW. Although the process has been a challenge,  I can honestly say, in retrospect, that I'm a better officer for having done what was necessary as I strived to achieve that goal. All CAP officers should strive to do the same.

As this string started, certainly a nurse officer is valuable to the CAP. However, someone in the grade lieutenant colonel should be expected to have that valuable training and reference experience that would allow them to assume a leadership role in critical situations. Someone without that training may be less successful.

[AirAux]

Speaking from experience, I had an EMT that was recently promoted from Major to Lt. Col., based upon time in grade as a HSO only in our squadron.  Send in the paperwork.  It should go through.  That's the Reg's. 

[Eclipse]

Speaking from experience, I had an EMT that was recently promoted from Major to Lt. Col., based upon time in grade as a HSO only in our squadron.  Send in the paperwork.  It should go through.  That's the Reg's.

How did an EMT get Major to start with?

[IceNine]

I think there is a funamental misunderstaning here.

First in terminology.  The promotion being requested is a "Professional Appointment" not  "Duty Performance"

Members that are eligible for a "Professional Appointment" are only eligible for additional promotions in that category if they meet the criteria for said grade.  So in this case a Nurse is only eligible for Professional Appointment up to 1st Lt unless they have a Doctorate in a medical discipline.

They can continue to receive promotions in that category ONLY if they are advancing their education to a level that meets the chart.  So for instance an LPN gets 2nd Lt and in 6 months finishes RN Training they are then eligible for 1st Lt but under the heading of RN will never be eligible for promotion to Capt unless they complete a Doctoral Program.

The elimination of PD requirements only lasts as long as the education level is commensurate with the grade as listed in 35-5 page 17.  Once that is exhausted it's back to earning the appropriate levels and playing in the PD sandbox.

The only people that are always and completely exempt from the PD program (excepting Level 1) are Military Officers and Chaplains (who have their own track)

[arajca]

Cite?

The reg says
"Health Service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers are exempt from all other training requirements prescribed for promotion to additional grades."

If you are refering to para. 5-3 c., that only covers INITIAL appointment, not subsequent promotions, which are covered in para 5-2 (generally) and 5-4 (specifically), noted above.

Now, promotions are specifically covered in para 5-4, which reads in part
"5-4. Promotions.
a. After initial appointment, professional personnel may be eligible for future promotions by satisfying the requirements outlined in paragraph 2-1, except:
(1) Health service personnel and legal officers are exempt from senior member professional development requirements after Level I. Legal officers, however, must complete the National Legal Officers' College prior to promotion to the grade of lieutenant colonel."

Since this paragraph specifically addresses promotions, please show where it requires advancing degrees to get a promotion.

If you're looking at Figure 7, HSO column, it covers initial promotion and includes a TIG reduction for HSOs with a doctorate serving as an HSO to make Maj in one year after after making Capt. It does not require continued advancement of degree in order to promote.

[AirAux]

Andrew, you are correctomundo.  It amazes me how many members can not read a very simple and straightforward Regulation and not have a clue what it says or means.  Folks, they don't get any easier than this one.  It is what it is and you need to quit trying to put your own personal spin on it because you don't like it.  Get over it.  The EMT was a Major because she had enough time in grade as a Captain, etc.  Simple, yes?? 

[RNOfficer]

I was at a meeting yesterday where my wing commander stated that he expects everyone to complete the PD requirements for their grade. He stated that we are "corporate" officers who should not expect to do one "thing"( i.e. flying, HSO, legal, et al) to the exclusion of the rest of the program. I, myself, was indifferent to the idea but after hearing his explanation, I find that I agree with him.

That's the Illinois Wing Right? Col Gordon Larson?

Thanks for the information.

This is completely against Regulations.

KB Answer ID 1452

Can a squadron create additional requirements for promotion other than those stated in the official CAP regulations?

   No. CAP REGULATION 35-5 (E) CAP OFFICER AND NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER APPOINTMENTS AND PROMOTIONS makes it clear that criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

Note however that no CAP member is entitled to a promotion simply by fulfilling the training and time-in-grade requirements. Commanders still have the obligation to recommend or not recommend individuals for promotion based on criteria such as job performance, contributions to the unit, involvement, human relations, leadership potential and other factors which require some subjective evaluation and judgment.

See below from  CAPR 35-5 CAP Officer and NCO Appointments and Promotions 16 MARCH 2010

SECTION A - GENERAL PROVISIONS
1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

[Eclipse]

What you are missing entirely is the final subjective say of a commander, or in this case, commanders in the chain of approval for a promotion.  Mere eligibility is not enough to warrant a promotion, and a respective commander does not need any more excuse than "I don't think you are ready". To deny a promotion request.

If you go around waving the same sense of entitlement in person as you are showing here, don't be surprised if the chain is not interested in encouraging that by promoting you.

No one has asked you yet what you feel you have done to deserve what is considered to be the pinnacle of the program for most members, and takes a considerable amount of effort and years of work to accomplish.  I am talking about internal to CAP, not your external qualifications.

Being the NO isn't the right answer, as you can't do anything more for CAP than an EMT or a member with a first aid card.

[RNOfficer]

What you are missing entirely is the final subjective say of a commander, or in this case, commanders in the chain of approval for a promotion. 

The relevant Regulation:

Health Service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers are exempt from all other training requirements prescribed for promotion to additional grades.

What you are REALLY saying is that although Professional Appointment are explicitly exempt from "all other training requirements" for promotion, Commanders will use their "subjective say", to deliberately violate the Regulation and not promote on the pretext that the Officer is "not ready".

If you think so little of the CAP to believe that, I frankly don't know why you're a member of this organization. Commanders are bound by Regulations just like everyone else (even National Commanders we have seen).

[RNOfficer]

Andrew, you are correctomundo.  It amazes me how many members can not read a very simple and straightforward Regulation and not have a clue what it says or means.  Folks, they don't get any easier than this one.  It is what it is and you need to quit trying to put your own personal spin on it because you don't like it.  Get over it.  The EMT was a Major because she had enough time in grade as a Captain, etc.  Simple, yes??

And was performing duties in an exemplary manner.

[Eclipse]

If you think so little of the CAP to believe that, I frankly don't know why you're a member of this organization. Commanders are bound by Regulations just like everyone else (even National Commanders we have seen).

A commander exercising personal judgement in denying someone a promotion, despite their on-paper minimum eligibility, is not only not a violation of regulations, but their fiduciary responsibility to the organization.

Perhaps you would understand that better if you spent some time completing CAP PD.

[tsrup]

I was at a meeting yesterday where my wing commander stated that he expects everyone to complete the PD requirements for their grade. He stated that we are "corporate" officers who should not expect to do one "thing"( i.e. flying, HSO, legal, et al) to the exclusion of the rest of the program. I, myself, was indifferent to the idea but after hearing his explanation, I find that I agree with him.

That's the Illinois Wing Right? Col Gordon Larson?

Thanks for the information.

This is completely against Regulations.

KB Answer ID 1452

Can a squadron create additional requirements for promotion other than those stated in the official CAP regulations?

   No. CAP REGULATION 35-5 (E) CAP OFFICER AND NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER APPOINTMENTS AND PROMOTIONS makes it clear that criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

Note however that no CAP member is entitled to a promotion simply by fulfilling the training and time-in-grade requirements. Commanders still have the obligation to recommend or not recommend individuals for promotion based on criteria such as job performance, contributions to the unit, involvement, human relations, leadership potential and other factors which require some subjective evaluation and judgment.

See below from  CAPR 35-5 CAP Officer and NCO Appointments and Promotions 16 MARCH 2010

SECTION A - GENERAL PROVISIONS
1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

Emphasis mine

[Larry Mangum]

RNOficer - You stated in your initial post, "I've been performing my duties in an exemplary manner (I think)", what does your commander think of your duty performance? As a HSO what do you bring to your squadron, group or wing.  Be prepared to document what you have done or are doing, as most people will not know what a HSO does.

[RNOfficer]

RNOficer - You stated in your initial post, "I've been performing my duties in an exemplary manner (I think)", what does your commander think of your duty performance? As a HSO what do you bring to your squadron, group or wing.  Be prepared to document what you have done or are doing, as most people will not know what a HSO does.

Thank you for reminding me. I intend to document it extensively. I'm prepared to fully justify my promotion.

What I am not prepared to do is complete requirement expressly not required. The Regulations don't require CAP Professional Development deliberately. All Professional Appointments must complete mandated Continuing Education Requirements. Most will do more. A CAP Officer who is a tire salesman doesn't have that burden.

[tsrup]

RNOficer - You stated in your initial post, "I've been performing my duties in an exemplary manner (I think)", what does your commander think of your duty performance? As a HSO what do you bring to your squadron, group or wing.  Be prepared to document what you have done or are doing, as most people will not know what a HSO does.

A CAP Officer who is a tire salesman doesn't have that burden.

instead they have to complete all of the PD.  That same tire salesman may also be a comms officer or PAO or a multitude of other useful positions for CAP.

We as a volunteer organization would do best not to judge other officers by their employment outside of CAP.

[JeffDG]

I was at a meeting yesterday where my wing commander stated that he expects everyone to complete the PD requirements for their grade. He stated that we are "corporate" officers who should not expect to do one "thing"( i.e. flying, HSO, legal, et al) to the exclusion of the rest of the program. I, myself, was indifferent to the idea but after hearing his explanation, I find that I agree with him.

As others have said, it's entirely the commander's prerogative to decide if someone is eligible for promotion.  It is not, however, in the commander's prerogative to add requirements (in the case of HSOs, completing Professional Development levels which from which they are specifically, by regulation, exempted).

If a commander looks at each candidate and says "yea" or "nay", that's fine.  But to make a blanket statement that they will not receive promotions unless they complete the PD levels, is an abuse of command authority, IMHO.

[Eclipse]

What I am not prepared to do is complete requirement expressly not required. The Regulations don't require CAP Professional Development deliberately. All Professional Appointments must complete mandated Continuing Education Requirements. Most will do more. A CAP Officer who is a tire salesman doesn't have that burden.

Excellent attitude - the difference being the tire salesman will actually have to work CAP's program instead of relying on an attitude of entitlement based on outside qualifications that are of dubious value to CAP.

The mere fact that you would belittle a non-professional member is indicative of where you believe you exist in the universal hierarchy.

You also ignored the question about what you think you have done for CAP that entitles you to the grade of Lt. Col. ahead of your peers.  These conversations are why most units don't appoint HSO's.

[arajca]

Actually, the promotion for HSO's that requires them to be appointed to that staff position is Capt to Maj for Medical Officers with a doctorate. Otherwise, there is no requirement to be serving in that duty assignment. Right, Wrong, or Otherwise, that's what the reg says.