Solo wings for a cadet

[Grumpy]

I have a cadet who just soloed in a glider.  He has not attended a glider academy and this was his 29th flight.  Based on the solo certification/endorsement in his log book, can I award him his solo wings?

Thanks

[MIKE]

Nope.

3-7. a. CAP Solo Pilot.
(1) Possess a current student pilot certificate with solo endorsements in accordance with 14 CFR Part 61 from a CAP Instructor Pilot in the make and model aircraft flown.
(2) For gliders, a minimum of 30 dual glider instruction flights prior to solo. Glider encampment/academy students are restricted from completing solo the first time they attend. ...

[Grumpy]

I was afraid of that.  Looks like he needs one more flight for the thirty.  I'm assuming he has all the documents or the instructor wouldn't solo him.  Must he attend a Glider Academy?

[a2capt]

I do believe that also has to have been administered by a CAP Instructor Pilot.. and the operations at Warner Springs are .. not. CAP Wings come from CAP flight supervision.

Would be cool if we could fully acknowledge at least the cadet accomplishments with a uniform device..  but..

[Al Sayre]

No he doesn't have to go to Glider Encampment, but the way I read it, he will need a CAP Glider IP to sign him off before he gets to wear the wings.  If he's already got his civilian solo ticket, he could do ride # 30 with a CAP IP for a solo sign off  and get the wings...

[PHall]

I was afraid of that.  Looks like he needs one more flight for the thirty.  I'm assuming he has all the documents or the instructor wouldn't solo him.  Must he attend a Glider Academy?

No. Just the 30 flights and the CAP Instructor's endorsement. If he's flying at Los Al this shouldn't be a problem.

[es_g0d]

Ridiculous.  The regulation ought to read:
"If the cadet has been alone in an airborne aircraft and survived, pin on the solo wings."

This is a little tongue-in-cheek; but that's what solo wings mean.  Anything more or less distorts that.

-S

[a2capt]

Well, if we could wear "wings"issued by an FBO, CFI, etc., if there were such a thing as a standard. But.. these are *CAP* wings and must be issued IAW CAPR-60-1.


I wish it were that simple. I want the cadet to have them, too. It sucked to explain it. OTOH.. it's not that bad, since the CAP minimum is 30 and he did 29.


Is Los Al actually operating? I gave up bothering to check as every time it seemed like they kept saying "we're waiting for one more inspection... meeting, etc... "  and this was date after date they declared..

[jimmydeanno]

Just find him a CAP pilot who's a CFI and send him up in the CAP plane.  What's $70 in the grand scheme?

[flyboy53]

I have a cadet who just soloed in a glider.  He has not attended a glider academy and this was his 29th flight.  Based on the solo certification/endorsement in his log book, can I award him his solo wings?

Thanks

You want to explain why you didn't ask this question of your group or wing' Ops people and let them decide if the wings can be awarded or not? Seems they would be the ones best suited to answer your question. I'm sure the appropriate solution could be reached. There are numerous incidents of solo wings awarded in my wing without a CAP aircraft.

[SarDragon]

I have a cadet who just soloed in a glider.  He has not attended a glider academy and this was his 29th flight.  Based on the solo certification/endorsement in his log book, can I award him his solo wings?

Thanks

You want to explain why you didn't ask this question of your group or wing' Ops people and let them decide if the wings can be awarded or not? Seems they would be the ones best suited to answer your question. I'm sure the appropriate solution could be reached. There are numerous incidents of solo wings awarded in my wing without a CAP aircraft.

Simply put, there are "issues" in those areas.

[bosshawk]

Awh, Dave, you can't mean the good folks at CAWG, can you?

[Pylon]

I have a cadet who just soloed in a glider.  He has not attended a glider academy and this was his 29th flight.  Based on the solo certification/endorsement in his log book, can I award him his solo wings?

Thanks

You want to explain why you didn't ask this question of your group or wing' Ops people and let them decide if the wings can be awarded or not? Seems they would be the ones best suited to answer your question. I'm sure the appropriate solution could be reached. There are numerous incidents of solo wings awarded in my wing without a CAP aircraft.

Doesn't hurt to get all the facts before contacting the appropriate staff department.  Might save you, them, or both some headaches.

[mdickinson]

Ridiculous.  The regulation ought to read:
"If the cadet has been alone in an airborne aircraft and survived, pin on the solo wings."
This is a little tongue-in-cheek; but that's what solo wings mean.  Anything more or less distorts that.

I agree 100%. And in fact that's what solo wings used to mean before someone changed the regulation a few years ago.  (But substitute "CAP member" for "cadet" - solo wings were never meant only for cadets, as many people assumed. I know several senior members who wore them.)

Unfortunately, now the regulation does not even require a solo flight! Read 60-1 carefully:

a. CAP Solo Pilot.
(1) Possess a current student pilot certificate with solo endorsements in accordance with 14 CFR Part 61 from a CAP Instructor Pilot in the make and model aircraft flown.
(2) For gliders, a minimum of 30 dual glider instruction flights prior to solo. Glider encampment/academy students are restricted from completing solo the first time they attend.
(3) For C182 airplanes, 25 [...] takeoffs & landings with a CAP instructor in C182 airplane prior to solo.
(4) For G1000 equipped airplanes, complete the CAP Cessna G1000 transition syllabus for VFR operation.

Notice that only sections 2 and 3 mention an actual solo flight, and neither of those sections apply to C-172 students. So to earn solo wings in a C-172, you don't need to solo - just have a solo endorsement!

This paragraph of the regulation is so poorly written that it is unclear (to this reader, anyway) whether a student glider pilot needs to solo in order to earn the wings. Section (1) makes it sound like he does, but section (2) makes it sound like he doesn't.

Perhaps the requirement for an actual solo flight was removed in order to make it possible to award these wings (instead of the old "pre-solo pilot wings" which is now gone from 60-1) to student pilots at National Flight Academy Glider who qualify to solo but aren't allowed to actually solo the glider.

[soapbox]
This is just another example of a CAP regulation that was written by someone trying to make it say a certain thing, but writes in wrong and ends up messing it up / making it into nonsense. 

For another example of this problem, check out what 60-1 says about a cadet who has done all her training in a CAP C-182. The regulation allows her to fly it solo - up until the moment she passes her private pilot checkride! As soon as the examiner hands her the private certificate, she can no longer fly the plane by herself (even though she's just satisfied a CAP instructor and an FAA examiner that she can) until she accumulates 100 hours. She can't even fly home from the checkride without another CAP pilot on board! That's just dumb.
[/soapbox]