MOLLE Color Opinions?

[SARTAC Medic]

Last time I had to buy field gear was before the war on terror and the addition to MOLLE gear to the toy box. 

I dont want to argue the use of MOLLE gear, as I am sure that this is a much debated topic here, Rather i wanted to get peoples opinions on the color options for the gear. 


Personally, I like the color of the coyote/tan gear, but it doesn't seem like it would visually look good with the woodland bdu, and it sure wouldn't look good with the blue bdu uniform. 

My next thought went to black, and not that I am worried about twisting the nose of some ranger teams who use black as a class designator  (correct me if i am wrong).   

ACU pattern seems to clash with bdu's a

Finally, i come to the OD green.. This to me, is the best option.   Works with the woodland just like the original  ALICE gear did.   


Anyone want to weigh in?

[Eclipse]

Black is your best option for CAP.

[Spaceman3750]

Any word on the orange MOLLE project?

[SARTAC Medic]

Maybe someone should contact the guys over at tactical tailor to see if they can work on some sort of orange option, if there is even orange colored condora fabric

[SARTAC Medic]

Belive it or not I actually found something that might be intersteing to those who actually want a MOLLE vest and CAP safety vest rolled into one unit.   

I attempted to look up the contact information on tactical tailor's web site to see about making an orange carrier. 

BEHOLD!!  The Instructor Plate Carrier.


Its online at
http://www.tacticaltailor.com/instructorpanelcarrier.aspx

The price is $140, its alitle high in my book, but if you REALLY wanted to be safe and have a tacti-cool 24 hour pack.. this may work.

[Hawk200]

Maybe someone should contact the guys over at tactical tailor to see if they can work on some sort of orange option, if there is even orange colored condora fabric

Orange nylon fabric, orange nylon webbing, orange nylon thread, even orange buckles and sliders. It's all available. Did some research on it when I was planning on making my own 24 hour pack in orange.

[Eclipse]

Anyone showing up to a CAP mission wearing a plate carrier deserves the wedgies and ridicule they will get.

[SARTAC Medic]

IMHO, the plate carrier is the new web gear.   The ES slides even show someone wearing a EMS rescue vest. 

I dont see the difference of someone wearing a plate carrier vs wearing a MOLLE vest.  One goes on over the head, the other goes on like a jacket. 

The interchangability of the MOLLE gear, the numerous configurations, the proliferation of cheap gear.... vs a vest made for EMS which would cost more money because it is "EMS gear", has only the pre configured factory set up.

You may not like the look of the plate carrier and not see a need for it, but if I am going to shell out my money for gear I am going to get what gear suits me best, and is to my liking.  Being able to attach the hydration bladder, radio holder, medic pouch, admin/map pouch, Gerber multi tool case, and a couple "ammo holder" to use a various other gear would be the exact same configuration as using the old web gear I had WIWAC. 

But try to wedgie me... i dare ya! 

[davidsinn]

But try to wedgie me... i dare ya! 

I've met the man. He could do it.

[Eclipse]

Heh - NICE!

Joking aside, a plate carrier is for carrying an anti-ballistic plate  I have no issues with MOLLE setups, but buying something made to
stop a bullet is a waste of money for CAP, and smells a tinge of hardkewl.

Your best bet for a SAR vest is either an LBV, a SARMed, or one of the sweet ones I reviewed here earlier in the year.

[Майор Хаткевич]

But try to wedgie me... i dare ya! 

I've met the man. He could do it.

Probably WITH the anti-ballistic plates inserted in the vest too...

[Hawk200]

IMHO, the plate carrier is the new web gear.   The ES slides even show someone wearing a EMS rescue vest.

EMS vests and plate carriers are different animals. An EMS vest is fairly appropriate. A plate carrier is not.

I dont see the difference of someone wearing a plate carrier vs wearing a MOLLE vest.  One goes on over the head, the other goes on like a jacket.

Then you don't know the difference between a plate carrier and a vest. Donning is not the only difference.

The interchangability of the MOLLE gear, the numerous configurations, the proliferation of cheap gear.... vs a vest made for EMS which would cost more money because it is "EMS gear", has only the pre configured factory set up.

There's other cheaper MOLLE gear out there. Spending $140 on a plate carrier when you could outfit yourself with a complete 24 hr pack (and maybe even a 72) doesn't look like you're shopping smart.

A plate carrier is designed to do just that. It's not as suitable for carrying loads as many people think. Yes, it has PALS webbing, but that's designed for a certain convenience. It's not the primary purpose.

You may not like the look of the plate carrier and not see a need for it, but if I am going to shell out my money for gear I am going to get what gear suits me best, and is to my liking.  Being able to attach the hydration bladder, radio holder, medic pouch, admin/map pouch, Gerber multi tool case, and a couple "ammo holder" to use a various other gear would be the exact same configuration as using the old web gear I had WIWAC.

You should be getting gear that's useful and comfortable, not for appearance. Have you ever worn a plate carrier? Worn properly, they're not super comfortable.

A lot of of people on ground teams seem to be getting this idea that they should look like a soldier or law enforcement. It's a bad idea, and creates problems. It's a mindset that doesn't belong. There are cadets that want to join the military, and do the hard core stuff, that's fine. But they need to wait til they're in the military to do it. CAP is not the place for it.

Joking aside, a plate carrier is for carrying an anti-ballistic plate  I have no issues with MOLLE setups, but buying something made to stop a bullet is a waste of money for CAP, and smells a tinge of hardkewl.

Just a tinge? Dude, blow you're nose, that reeks of hardkewl. 

[SARTAC Medic]

I am not advocating going out and spending hundreds of dollars on a ballistics quality plate carrier with the plate and ballistics inserts.   This would be foolish and overtop for what CAP needs, let alone anyone who is not being shot at.   

There are less expensive versions of the plate carriers out there costing about the same as molle vests.  My draw to the plate carrier STYLE is that from what I have seen there is more room to mount pouches to on the front because you do not need to place items based on the zipper down the front.   

No, I have never worn a properly outfitted plate carrier with ballistic panels, full combat load, in 150 degree heat or try to make anyone believe that I have.   

I'm going to consider this thread killed, i guess.   Rather then get flamed further for my thoughts Ill just stop replying.   

[Hawk200]

There are less expensive versions of the plate carriers out there costing about the same as molle vests.  My draw to the plate carrier STYLE is that from what I have seen there is more room to mount pouches to on the front because you do not need to place items based on the zipper down the front.

That additional room is there because it has more surface area when soft panels and plates are installed. The difference between when it has the panels in it and when it doesn't can be several inches in area. I can wear additional things on an IOTV that I can't on just a plain vest. And the additional items I wore on an IOTV, I don't have any need for on a CAP mission.

No, I have never worn a properly outfitted plate carrier with ballistic panels, full combat load, in 150 degree heat or try to make anyone believe that I have.

When and where aren't even relevant. I've worn them in places other than just a combat theater. Iraq isn't the only place those are worn.

Rather then get flamed further for my thoughts Ill just stop replying.

Hopefully, you'll read then. It's not a matter of flaming, it's a matter of education. You can get whatever you want, but it can be problematic in ways. On a mission base, you could end up doing mission staff duties instead of ground team because your appearance presents something that is unwanted. When you're there to help, but look like you're "combat ready", that's a problem.

If you really think that style does what what you want, look into a Ranger R.A.C.K., or similar design. It's basically a chest harness that places equipment on the front and sides, which would make it easier to get in and out of a vehicle with it on. There are many options available other than plate carriers than would carry everything you mentioned, and still have room for more. They're a lot cheaper too.

[SARTAC Medic]

Hawk,

Im willing to take a step back and take advantage of learning a few things.  I am NOT trying to be argumentative and after reading my last few posts, i wanted to appolagize for getting pissy.   I forgot my own rule that my own way is not always the best way and as such maybe I can learn a thing or two. 

I may have been making some incorrect assumptions on my end and would like to hear your input on the subject.  For that matter, anyone else out there that has input on the topic would be greatly appreciated.   

What makes the best field gear for a Cap ground team member?   Since i dont have any military experience, only a glimmer in my eye when i see some new cool looking gear, I have no foundation to place my beliefs.    If the plate carrier sans armour is not a good choice, what would be a better choice?   I am looking to store all the 24 hour gear, plus 3 Litter hydration and team leader gear in one unit which evenly distributes the weight over the body.  I would like to be able to hold a motorola ht 1550 radio, the ISR radio, my cell phone, identification and etc close at hand. 

Ease of donning and doffing are appealing, and if possible something that would lend itself to intergration with a 72 hours pack would be nice as well. 

[Spaceman3750]

I'm rather fond of my Responder 24 by 5.11 Tactical. I posted pics in another similar thread. The company is good, I had a problem where the "chest harness strap" broke off and they immediately shipped me a new pack.

[Hawk200]

What makes the best field gear for a Cap ground team member?   Since i dont have any military experience, only a glimmer in my eye when i see some new cool looking gear, I have no foundation to place my beliefs.    If the plate carrier sans armour is not a good choice, what would be a better choice?   I am looking to store all the 24 hour gear, plus 3 Litter hydration and team leader gear in one unit which evenly distributes the weight over the body.  I would like to be able to hold a motorola ht 1550 radio, the ISR radio, my cell phone, identification and etc close at hand.

The best things have lots of pockets, or, as in the case with MOLLE, being able to add pockets. If you want something to add your water bladder(and yes, you should only put water in the bladder, anything else is gonna lead to nasties that can make you severly sick), you're pretty much looking at vests.

Most of the vests out there have a "pocket" in back that will fit most Camelbaks (or similar items) up to a hundred ounces. Camelbak makes 72 oz ones, just make sure you keep it full.  You can get many of them in hi vis colors, too. They also make a carrier that "docks" with MOLLE vests and based on input I've heard directly from someone using it, it works. But, Camelbak isn't the only one that makes such things.

Compared to a plate carrier, a large number of vests are mesh, while the carrier is solid nylon fabric. Mesh is far cooler, and it will give in spots that solid fabric won't.

I'm not gonna tell you a specific brand, because one brand that works for some people doesn't work for others. On my deployment, some guys were perfectly happy with the issue hydration bladder, others loathed it. Same applies to gear. I use military stuff because it's something I know, but I constantly tell people that it doesn't have to be military to be used.

I've been working on a pack design in hi vis that I can wear when I ride. I can ride out to the unit with something that has the advantage that people can see, and will carry at least 24 hrs of stuff. I haven't found anything that really does exactly what I want shopping around.

My shopping practice tends to be frugal, I don't see any point to overly expensive stuff, unless it's extremely durable or provides a "gotta have" usefulness. Microfiber towels are an example of usefulness, I can pack four of the in the space of one regular towel (yes, I do lend them out, someone always forgets one).

Ease of donning and doffing are appealing, and if possible something that would lend itself to intergration with a 72 hours pack would be nice as well.

Based on my own experience, as well as many others, anything that dons over the head is a royal pain, and can even cause some back pains(Ranger RACKs are an exception as they're pretty lightweight). Vests are probably the best bet. The SARMEd vests are raved about here, although I've never tried one, I haven't seen much negative about them that would lead me to recommend against them.

As for packs, I've used the issued Army assault pack (don't get stuck on the "assault" label, it's just a name). It can carry everything you need for 24 hr ops, and then some. I've got a BFM that the state issued me, it's nice, but it can be loaded to the point that you can't lift it with one hand. They're a bit expensive, but the quality is good.

A website that I kind of like is Military Morons. The guy does a lot of testing, and you can see a lot of what's out there. And there's a bunch.

[SPD6696]

A plate/armor carrier is just that.  It is designed to carry ballistic panels and plates.  Without the plates and panels, it serves very poorly as a load bearing vest.  It was not designed to do that.

My advice?  If money is the issue, buy the QUALITY LOAD BEARING gear you can afford.  Don't worry about color or pattern.  Nobody is really going to care about your Gucci factor after about 3 hours in the field.  Trust me, I have mixed desert, woodland, OD, coyote, black, etc gear, and the guys I was living with, and the guys that were trying to blow us up really didn't care.  I doubt the people you are trying to rescue will call you out on it, either....

Stay away from airsoft crap (almost anything in cheaper than dirt).  Buy either reputable outdoor gear, or, genuine mil gear.

And, if you are worried about visibility, get a VS17 and attach it to your gear.

[GTCommando]

Coming from a guy who's been going on GT exercises for almost two years, I've seen a lot of stuff. Personally, I agree that OD green is the way to go, considering that we can't use digital. I mix it up too though, and though I like to have a choice, I'll buy the cheapest I can find that won't fall apart. Here's a really good website for gear in general. This is where I bought my LBV, before they stopped carrying them. 

www.cheaperthandirt.com

[IceNine]

Apparently they sell guns ^

Any color outside International Orange, Highway Yellow, Obnoxious green is pointless in CAP.

If you are in a situation where you need to be wearing gear you will also need to be wearing a safety vest and doing so under a hardkewl od, black or otherwise vest doesn't meet either the spirit or the intent of the regulation.

[Gung Ho]

Look for gear the wildland firefighter get, you can find it in bright colors

[GTCommando]

Apparently they sell guns ^

Ain't it great!   
Yes, they sell guns, but you gotta admit, they do have a decent lineup of MOLLE gear.

[Senior]

What does the term "hardkewl" mean?

[tsrup]

What does the term "hardkewl" mean?

A picture is worth a thousand words and all...

[GTCommando]

Something to add to my first post on this thread. Concerning black, it really doesn't work out too well for ES, especially if you do a lot of ground pounding, because of one scientific fact: DARK COLORS ATTRACT AND TRAP HEAT. I strongly advise everyone out there to stay away from black, as it can quickly turn into a safety issue.

[SarDragon]

Something to add to my first post on this thread. Concerning black, it really doesn't work out too well for ES, especially if you do a lot of ground pounding, because of one scientific fact: DARK COLORS ATTRACT AND TRAP HEAT. I strongly advise everyone out there to stay away from black, as it can quickly turn into a safety issue.

Attract? I think you need to do some remedial physics reading.

Infrared energy is radiated by the sun, in addition to visible light and ultraviolet. Darker colors do not reflect this energy as well as lighter materials, and the material heats up. Cloth, and similar materials, because of their insulating qualities, do not conduct very much of the surface heat to the interior.

More here and here.

[GTCommando]

Roger that. I knew black doesn't dissipate heat as well. I thought it attracted heat as well. Thanks for keeping me in check.  :clap:

[SPD6696]

Most of the gear in the cheaper than dirt catalog is low quality airsoft gear.  It will not hold up to rough use.  If you are going to do rescue and search ground missions, the last thing you need is for your gear to do a hard fail.  Don't trade quality for cool-factor.  Whoever said wildland firefighting gear hit it.  Good call.  You get the option of high vis color and high quality.  If you are on a budget, hit the surplus stores.  Sportsmans guide usually has good deals on genuine mil surplus gear, as well. 

I've had hard fails on gear in combat, and it's not good.  I had 2 CFP90 packs fail on me, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and that stuff was issued.  There's nothing like cobbling your gear together with 550 cord and 100mph tape in the field.

All that stuff like Voodoo, etc is crap.  Does it look good?  Yup.  But it will fall apart.  DOn't trade quality for cool.

[GTCommando]

Most of the gear in the cheaper than dirt catalog is low quality airsoft gear.  It will not hold up to rough use. 

True, to a point. But take a look at item BJR-075 (apparently they didn't stop carrying them).

I've had this rig since Christmas of last year, used it in two states and on countless SAREXs. Haven't had a complaint since I bought the thing. almost my whole squadron uses exactly the same rig. The only difference is mine was cheaper. 

Seriously, if you're looking for something to hold your 24 hour gear, this is the way to go. For $25 you can't beat it with a wooden stick.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=BJR-075

[IceNine]

Except you still have to wear a safety vest over it.

Safety vest =$.  So spend 40 and get an orange rig and move on.

My 12 years of CAP specific SAR says that if its a pita it won't get to play anymore.  You can ask my horribly overstuffed "island of misfit toys" and my credit card what works and doesn't.

It is incredibly difficult for the GQ in all of us to admit that sometimes function does outweigh form.

[SarDragon]

Form follows function, all the time. Nothing new. Make it work, then make it look good.

[GTCommando]

^ Roger that. You can get a safety vest at Wally World for $1.

[HGjunkie]

^ Roger that. You can get a safety vest at Wally World for $1.

You get what you pay for...

[Spaceman3750]

^ Roger that. You can get a safety vest at Wally World for $1.

Not ANSI compliant, which according to national safety is what's going to be hitting the regs at some point. Besides, a $1 safety vest is hardly sufficient to ensure you are visible from a distance. At a minimum, the vest should have reflectivity for night use.

[DakRadz]

^ Roger that. You can get a safety vest at Wally World for $1.

Not ANSI compliant, which according to national safety is what's going to be hitting the regs at some point. Besides, a $1 safety vest is hardly sufficient to ensure you are visible from a distance. At a minimum, the vest should have reflectivity for night use.

Then go for the ANSI 2 (or is it II? anyway) compliant $7 vest. Still not bad, and still from Wal-Mart.

[IceNine]

And still worn over top your ultra swish ballistics vest