Gortex Grade Slide

[lordmonar]

Now do keep the field & garrison concepts separate here. 

That is exactly my point.....first there is NO rule that says you cannot put things in your pockets in or out of garrison...only on the blues they should not be bulky, and only the tops of your pens and pencils can show in the bdu pocket....but some people out there in cadet land (and some of these people are SMs) take it way to far! 

Pockets are to hold things....any thing except your hands...that's what gloves are for!

[DNall]

There's no RULE about the tops of pens or bulky items. That's a field standard you're adapting. Swing by a recruiter (or any AFB) on casual friday & tell me if he's packing more starch or BDU around the office. Obviously we're looking for a middle ground w/ cadets that don't have multiple sets for field & garrison, but they still need to look passable next to the other five guys w/ tack down flaps & razor creases.

The pockets were designed by people at a time when they thought they'd be useful in combat, which they aren't cause they get covered. In garrison you might can get away with using them, but that would be for thigns like climning around the top of a helicopter, not stuffing your hat in while you sit in front of a computer screen. You can't use the bues shirt or service coat pockets obvioustly. The shirt really should come with simulated pockets or at least pre-sewn/tacked. That's just the way it is. Civilians use lots of pockets, but military culture demands a little more sacrifice when possible.

[shorning]

There's no RULE about the tops of pens or bulky items.

Come on!  RTFM!

Table 2-5. Clothing/Accessory Standards, Item 11, Pens and Pencils

Concealed. EXCEPTION:  When carried in pen/pencil compartment of BDU, utility or field uniform, flight suit or flight jacket

[lordmonar]

There's no RULE about the tops of pens or bulky items. That's a field standard you're adapting. Swing by a recruiter (or any AFB) on casual Friday & tell me if he's packing more starch or BDU around the office. Obviously we're looking for a middle ground w/ cadets that don't have multiple sets for field & garrison, but they still need to look passable next to the other five guys w/ tack down flaps & razor creases.

The pockets were designed by people at a time when they thought they'd be useful in combat, which they aren't cause they get covered. In garrison you might can get away with using them, but that would be for things like climbing around the top of a helicopter, not stuffing your hat in while you sit in front of a computer screen. You can't use the blues shirt or service coat pockets obviously. The shirt really should come with simulated pockets or at least pre-sewn/tacked. That's just the way it is. Civilians use lots of pockets, but military culture demands a little more sacrifice when possible.

Why would I need to go see a recuirter...I wear the [darn] things 5 days a week and then I wear my CAP BDU every Tuesday!

Please Dnall...I use my pockets all the time. I use by pockets in the field and in combat....(have you been in combat?).

What I am complaining about is the myth that you can't put anything in your pockets at all!  That is a an utter our right asinine policy and I will attack it when ever I see it.

BTW...do USAF recruiters wear BDU's to the officer?  I thought that was a no-no for them.

[afgeo4]

USAF MX people use pockets to hold tools. Everyone else uses pockets to hold things like glasses and bdu caps (those are the prescribed places to keep them). You'd be surprised at just how useful those "covered" pockets can be in combat actually.

Normally USAF recruiters don't wear BDUs. The duty uniform is blues. You can catch them in BDUs on days off, training days or field trip days, but that's pretty much it. It's more accepted for them to be seen in PFUs than BDUs.

Back to gore-tex slide topic...

[lordmonar]

Anyone have a source for the CAP grade slides yet?

[afgeo4]

www.civilairpatrolstore.com  in another few months or so and for $8 a pop plus $22 shipping and handling, right?

[Hawk200]

www.civilairpatrolstore.com  in another few months or so and for $8 a pop plus $22 shipping and handling, right?

I like that one. And probably a little too close to being accurate to be funny. Might be better off if we just laugh anyway, for the time being.

[afgeo4]

In defense of Vanguard, for $22 S&H, the package will arrive in triple bubble wrap (cloth slides), 20"X24" package via FedEx overnight super priority before 3am delivery with a note that says, "No one delivers this kind of service!"

Don't worry, your personalized coffee mug will still be delivered via USPS in a plain paper envelope and with someone else's name on it. Although they'll probably apologize profusely a month later and ship you the right one free of charge.

[mikeylikey]

In defense of Vanguard, for $22 S&H, the package will arrive in triple bubble wrap (cloth slides), 20"X24" package via FedEx overnight super priority before 3am delivery with a note that says, "No one delivers this kind of service!"

Don't worry, your personalized coffee mug will still be delivered via USPS in a plain paper envelope and with someone else's name on it. Although they'll probably apologize profusely a month later and ship you the right one free of charge.

I got that personalized coffee mug with someone elses name on it.  I drank out of it and then sent it back dirty!

[RiverAux]

Hate to say it, but I doubt we're going to see many more policy letters under TP's reign.  He's moved to non-memo format informative emails.  We'll have to start saving emails like we did policy letters until the regs are revised and the email is hopefully remembered.

dcpacemaker's prediction was proven wrong fairly quickly.  There have been 3 policy letters issued since he made it., and it hasn't yet been a month.

[Pace]

Hate to say it, but I doubt we're going to see many more policy letters under TP's reign.  He's moved to non-memo format informative emails.  We'll have to start saving emails like we did policy letters until the regs are revised and the email is hopefully remembered.

dcpacemaker's prediction was proven wrong fairly quickly.  There have been 3 policy letters issued since he made it., and it hasn't yet been a month.

I don't mind being wrong.  In fact, in this case I'm glad I was wrong.

[afgeo4]

Called Vanguard 3 days ago about this matter and was told it will be another month to month and half until the slides hit the shelves webpages.

[Matt]

Called Vanguard 3 days ago about this matter and was told it will be another month to month and half until the slides hit the shelves webpages.

Maybe if they HIT hard enough it might knock it to be a bit better.

[Smokey]

I see.....slides for the gortex in time for spring and summer......makes sense to me.

[lordmonar]

I see.....slides for the gortex in time for spring and summer......makes sense to me.

Come on Smokey...that's not fair.  USAF only just authorised this...in the beggining of winter.  It takes time for Vanguard to design, produce and package enough to be ready to go full on.  We are talking about 20K units each rank just to be sure you have coverage and can meet the demand that is going to hit you once you go live!

Its not like they had them sitting there waiting for USAF's approval to go live.

[LtCol White]

I have to agree. I think folks are being a little too hard on Vanguard. They're not perfect but come on guys.

I have had no problems with any of my orders from them. When desiging and ordering custom patches from them, they were very responsive and helpful. Produced a high quality product that was ready in the time frame they quoted me.

Lighten up on them guys. Besides, its not likely that things are going to change. I rather doubt we will see a return to the old CAP Bookstore so it looks like Vanguard is here to stay.

[Hawk200]

Lighten up on them guys. Besides, its not likely that things are going to change. I rather doubt we will see a return to the old CAP Bookstore so it looks like Vanguard is here to stay.

There were definitely problems with the old Bookstore, but I think the nature of the Vanguard complaints involve the fact that they have a near monopoly on CAP insignia.

Their monopoly is similar to the problems there were with the old Ma Bell monopoly. "Don't like our service? Oh well, you can get someone else! Oh wait, there is noone else! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...."

A monopoly can provide whatever level of service they choose, and you have no choice in the matter.

[LtCol White]

But that monopoly isn't Vanguard's fault. Exclusive rights to produce our insignia were granted to them and written in the contract by NHQ. So people should be mad at NHQ for creating that environment and not Vanguard.

[Hawk200]

But that monopoly isn't Vanguard's fault. Exclusive rights to produce our insignia were granted to them and written in the contract by NHQ. So people should be mad at NHQ for creating that environment and not Vanguard.

Good point. But overall, the membership itself doesn't have any control over that contract. So we still have the right to complain about substandard service from the sole source.

Vanguard needs to get their collect tails in gear and provide service of the same level we could expect from the other companies that were better than Vanguard. I don't care that they're bigger. And neither do a lot of other people that need items that they can't get in a timely manner.