The compiled list of CAP uniform suggestions....

[Hawk200]

Also, create a Recruiting occupational badge since there is a recruiting/retention career field in CAP now.  Perhaps something similar to the USAF one?  On that note, create a badge for EVERY CAP career field. 

There is a "Recruiting and Retention" badge. It's on page 121 of 39-1(that's the page marked as 121, not page 121 of the PDF file.). For ease of reference, I've included that page as an attachment. The badge is on the bottom right.

Weather briefers.  We have pilots that, with a little orientation training, could augment base operations as pilot briefers.

As someone that went halfway through Air Force weather school, I can tell you it's not as easy as you might think. I attended four months of an eight month course for weather at Keesler AFB, before a cantankerous lady named Katrina interrupted my training. The block on weather briefing alone was over a month long. That was one of those blocks that I hadn't gotten to yet, but I heard the horror stories from both students and instructors.

Although it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to recruit anyone in weather that you can find. The Air Force, Coast Guard and Marines go through the exact same course now, the Navy attended part of it(they branched off later). The Army has a weather observer MOS (13W) that probably has enough training to brief pilots. And all of them probably know where to get weather reports for their area. It's kind of a geek type job, once you're in it, you're always checking the weather. (BTW, that isn't intended as an insult, it's a very intensive field of study.)

[DNall]

DNall:

Where does it say we are restricted to domestic missions?

I don't know that it does, but that's a bit TOO far out of the box. First things first anyway. If for instance they decide to use our chaplains overseas, I would hope they pay them per diem & either give them reserve commissions or list them as contractors. The Geneva convention doesn't exactly cover the volunteer category.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Actually, the Geneva Convention (For what its worth against OUR enemies) does cover "Civilians accompanying an armed force" and specifies that they are to be extended POW status.  However, in the case of a chaplain, their GC Category is "Retained Person," which is a class of persons limited to chaplains and medical personnel.

I was thinking actually of augmentation at overseas bases, however.

[DNall]

LOVE the new badge design, but to cut costs and ridiculousness, eliminate the enamel please.  Aircrew badges don't have to be very distinctive from military since they don't suggest military affiliation (a civillian could wear wings and it's not against the law).  Also, create a Recruiting occupational badge since there is a recruiting/retention career field in CAP now.  Perhaps something similar to the USAF one?  On that note, create a badge for EVERY CAP career field.  Also create a cloth version of each one.

A++ on overall design though!

(AFROTC shoulder boards aren't black, they're navy blue to reflect USAF Officers.  The Army ROTC wears black ones to reflect Army Officers.)

Bigger than any of those questions I think is... do we transform to ABU's, stay with BDU's or go with Corporate Utilities after 2011 (proposed mandatory wear date for ABU in USAF)?  What would our uniforms look like with current insignia in ABU colors?  I know we have photoshop wizards out there!  Please no patches since USAF is eliminating them from ABU's.

Actually the AF is very particular about CAP having badges that can be confused with theirs. That's why the outter wings & are not allowed to be the same as AF aviators - we're not on their level. Using color enamel centers allows us to put together a classy badge that gets much closer to the target while being clearly distinctive. The AF officers that've seen those designs to date have been very impressed. It'll be moving up the chain soon.

AFROTC/Academy/JROTC does in fact have black grade slides. Here's the reg, check page 40, fig 10-1: http://afrotc.iit.edu/cadets/files/rotci36-2008.pdf

The practical reason we wear AF uniforms is because they are avail from surplus & at low cost do to production volume so as to minimize the cost on our cadets. As such, we WILL move to ABUs when the BDU supply is getting tight & surplus ABUs are showing up in enough volume to make it reasonable. Generally that means two years after the AF mandatory wear date will be the CAP initial wear date. The last info I saw is that the AF will be mandatory into ABUs in 09, which puts CAP starting into them around 2011. Are you asking what our badges/tapes would look like on that material? White on ultramarine versus dark blue versus OD on ABU material? Well, I'd be glad to photoshop something up for you, but I don't have access to a good sample of the material yet. I also don't know what the AF intends to do as far as a background for their own badges/tapes. I assume keep the same blue on OD.


John,
You mean if we had a domestic augmentation program that it could be run teh same way by overseas units at overseas bases? That's reasonable, within certain limits. I mean pissing off some local idiot is a bit different than an international incedent, and the treat picture is differnt even if you're talking about the UK.

I have a quesiton on that by the way. I know we have overseas cadet Sqs at military bases. It is restricted to that? For instance, if you had a compound of American oil workers living with their families in Saudi Arabia, and they have a CAP unit in their private HS inside the walls? I mean apparently they can have a little league team that goes to the world series & all the players are from the US.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I have never heard of a CAP overseas squadron operated anywhere but on a military base for dependent children.

I don't know if there is a regulation limiting that or not.

The biggest issue I can see is wear of the US uniform in foreign lands.  In some cases it may be illegal, (Which is why we put IACE in blazers) and in Saudi Arabia it may be unhealthy!

[JohnKachenmeister]

Also... how you gonna do O-flights? 

[JohnKachenmeister]

And overseas augmentation, I was just looking ahead.  I could see how, with manpower reductions in the USAF to favor the Army and Marines, the AF might get to a point that they may actually be dependent on CAP. Packing up some CAP medical people and chaplains from the US to help with a rush of casualties coming in to Germany, for example.

[SarDragon]

I have never heard of a CAP overseas squadron operated anywhere but on a military base for dependent children.

I don't know if there is a regulation limiting that or not.

The biggest issue I can see is wear of the US uniform in foreign lands.  In some cases it may be illegal, (Which is why we put IACE in blazers) and in Saudi Arabia it may be unhealthy!

See CAPR 35-4. It is very specific about the requirements for establishing an overseas squadron. I used to be in the one at Misawa AB, Japan, as did MSgt Harris some years later.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Also, create a Recruiting occupational badge since there is a recruiting/retention career field in CAP now.  Perhaps something similar to the USAF one?  On that note, create a badge for EVERY CAP career field. 

There is a "Recruiting and Retention" badge. It's on page 121 of 39-1(that's the page marked as 121, not page 121 of the PDF file.). For ease of reference, I've included that page as an attachment. The badge is on the bottom right.

Weather briefers.  We have pilots that, with a little orientation training, could augment base operations as pilot briefers.

As someone that went halfway through Air Force weather school, I can tell you it's not as easy as you might think. I attended four months of an eight month course for weather at Keesler AFB, before a cantankerous lady named Katrina interrupted my training. The block on weather briefing alone was over a month long. That was one of those blocks that I hadn't gotten to yet, but I heard the horror stories from both students and instructors.

Although it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to recruit anyone in weather that you can find. The Air Force, Coast Guard and Marines go through the exact same course now, the Navy attended part of it(they branched off later). The Army has a weather observer MOS (13W) that probably has enough training to brief pilots. And all of them probably know where to get weather reports for their area. It's kind of a geek type job, once you're in it, you're always checking the weather. (BTW, that isn't intended as an insult, it's a very intensive field of study.)

Hawk:

I don't think the briefer needs to be a meteorologist, just somebody who can collect, analyze, and interpret weather trends and advise a pilot on a specific route of flight.

That's what pilots do every time they fly.

The training would be for lazy sligs like me who never use weather data to develop my own analysis, but rather calls 1-800-WX-BRIEF and asks intelligent questions.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The weather data is included on all pilot written exams, but a lot of us never use ALL the charts and data available, and consequently we get rusty.

[WheelsUp]

Ya know, CAP spends ENTIRELY too much time worrying about doggone uniform issues than on the doggone mission. Does Vanguard OWN CAP?

  I, for one, am here as a volunteer. I pay to be here. Last thing I need is to spend more $$ on seemingly endless uniform changes. I was in the Army for 7 years, and we had nowhere near this rate of change.

  Anyone think it would be worth pointing this out to Maxwell? Or would a motivated volunteer like me get the smackdown for that?

 

[DNall]

CAP has no authority over the mission, and for the most part can't do anything about many of the problems we face, those items are in the hands of AF & Congress. So, CAP acts out by responding to the need for change in a way they can control. There are other things they can & should be doing, but that's slow tedious hard work that'd run off members. They also do a lot of unifoorm work to placate members so they'll stay around. They're actually pretty responsive to needs expressed from the field, just for retention sake.

[MIKE]

It would be better if the uniform changes were less frequent.  It seems like every time the NB meets there is something new or changed with the uniform.  I think there should be a lot more input from JoeMember too, before implementation.

[AlphaSigOU]

AFA grade slides are blue and silver on the light blue shirt; the hard shoulder boards for service digs/ mess dress are black on silver.

[FARRIER]

"The last time I checked, it looked like the USAF's cost/cadet/year in appropriated dollars was:

AF JROTC: $358

CAP: $127.

Which makes sense if you consider the hundreds of paid JROTC instructors that have no counterpart in CAP."

http://www.afoats.af.mil/afjrotc/instructors.asp

AF JROTC instructors are retired military officers and NCO's. Can every cadet and composite squadron say that about their cadet programs officers? Even as a cadet in the 1980's. it was only a 50/50 chance that cadet programs officers would have any kind of military background.

[PDCT042]

Ya know, CAP spends ENTIRELY too much time worrying about doggone uniform issues than on the doggone mission. Does Vanguard OWN CAP?

  I, for one, am here as a volunteer. I pay to be here. Last thing I need is to spend more $$ on seemingly endless uniform changes. I was in the Army for 7 years, and we had nowhere near this rate of change.

  Anyone think it would be worth pointing this out to Maxwell? Or would a motivated volunteer like me get the smackdown for that?

 

I second the former.