Health Services Officer

[KioGoten]

Does anyone know anything about the Health Services Officer?

What do they do? How do they advance?



Thanks

Capt Nelson Guadalupe, CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

[CadetProgramGuy]

Thread started by me......

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4764.msg92742#msg92742

[Eclipse]

The quick answer is very little that can't be done by anyone else - no professional medical qualifications are necessary for the duties themselves, which is why appointing MO's and HSO's for most units doesn't serve much purpose.

[KioGoten]

Hmmm... so those of us who are Doctors, Nurses, Physical Therapists, Dietitians, Physician Assistants ECT can become a health services officer and unless there is a medical emergency... we dont do anything?

That sucks lol is this the same for chaplains and JAG officers as well?
If one comes in as a Captain, what do they have to do in order to get promoted to Major?

Thanks

Capt Nelson Guadalupe, CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

[JayT]

Hmmm... so those of us who are Doctors, Nurses, Physical Therapists, Dietitians, Physician Assistants ECT can become a health services officer and unless there is a medical emergency... we dont do anything?

That sucks lol is this the same for chaplains and JAG officers as well?
If one comes in as a Captain, what do they have to do in order to get promoted to Major?

Thanks

Capt Nelson Guadalupe, CAP
SWR-TX-313 Abilene Squadron
2LT Texas Guard
Midland Medical Division

MD/DO = Medical Officer
NP/RN/LPN = Nursing Officer
EMT/Paramedic/everyone else= Health Services Officer.

Yes. CAP does not have malpractice insurance. And frankly, how mant situations have you been in where someone needs an emergency eyeglass fitting?

The Padre's and JAG's operate under different rules, regulatons and laws.

[Eclipse]

If one comes in as a Captain, what do they have to do in order to get promoted to Major?

You work in a track that actually has meaningful duties to the local squadron.  A local unit cc is free to appoint you as a staff officer in
one of the health service fields, but as a professional person it won't take more than about 15 minutes to realize there's not much point to it.

We are all limited internally to band-aids and 911.

[lordmonar]

That's not really true.

Medical Professionals are free to do anything they want.......but they have to understand that CAP does not have any malpractice insurance and that they are accepting the entire risk upon themselves.

As the regulations say...we are not an health provider nor an emergency medical provider (and should no bill ourselves as one).....but within our operations we are able to perform anything which we are trained to do.  (just don't expect CAP to cover you if you screw up).

[Eclipse]

If we don't care about the protection and resources of CAP, we're all free to do whatever we want.

I can't think of a single reasonable needed duty in CAP that a medical professional could perform that any other member could not,
given the current conservative nature of our program.

Come talk to me with free flight physicals and other related care and you might have something.

[lordmonar]

I would say that we NEED EMTs for GSAR, Encampments etc.
I would say that we NEED flight Doctors to advise the IC, OSC, AOBD and GBD if a member is medically qualified to sortie.

I would say that we should have Medical professionals educating our members on health issues related to our operations and general lifestlye.

The problem is and always has been....a legal/liability issue.  Just look at the flak we get when we try to write a regulation that covers a members medication.

We are in a trap where sometimes we are In Loco Parente (sp?) that is WE are responsible for the kids....but legaly we can't advise them on how or when to take their medications.

Same for larger level HSO.

You want flight physicals (of course you want them free) well we would have to pay for the medical liability insurance. (in Cali that can be $20K-$50K per year!

So....how many cadet activities do you want to eliminate?

Having said all that....there is nothing wrong with a medical professional being a HSO for a squaron.  He does education, advises the commander....he just does not practice medicine.

I makes the doctor feel like he is contributing with out putting CAP into a jam.

[Eclipse]

He does education, advises the commander...

On what?

[lordmonar]

He does education, advises the commander...

On what?

You figure it out.....

[Eclipse]

He does education, advises the commander...

On what?

You figure it out.....

Yeah - that's the point - lot's of rhetoric about all they can do, and they you ask the direct questions and get that kind of response.

[lordmonar]

He does education, advises the commander...

On what?

You figure it out.....

Yeah - that's the point - lot's of rhetoric about all they can do, and they you ask the direct questions and get that kind of response.

Okay......if you are going to be dense...the advise the commander on heath issues that may arrise during the course of a normals squadron's operations.

Say you have a diabetic cadet...the commander needs to know what sort of issues that may pose to the health and safety of the cadet...he asks the HSO.

Say a pilot is complaining of a head cold...the commander needs to know if he should do the flight release....he asks the HSO.

Advise....that is one of the things staff officers do.

[Ned]

That's not really true.

Medical Professionals are free to do anything they want.......but they have to understand that CAP does not have any malpractice insurance and that they are accepting the entire risk upon themselves.

Pat,

I'm going to disagree strongly with this part.

That statement standing alone would make it seem like HSOs can engage in medical treatment as long as they have their own liability coverage.   And that is simply not true.  Our regulations specifically prohibit HSOs from engaging in any non-emergency medical treatment even if they own their own insurance company.

The main reason, of course, is that liability insurance not only covers the medical professional, but also their employer.  (In this case, CAP.)  If an HSO self-insured and then engaged in prohibited medical treatment that went sour, CAP, Inc. might still be on the hook.  So we can't allow HSOs to perform non-emergency treatment; violations of this "bright line rule" risk the very existence of CAP.  It doesn't take too many multi-million dollar malpractice verdicts before we are out of existence.

Just read and follow the regulations in this area.  They are pretty clear.

Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer

[KioGoten]

Ok... so I get it when it comes to our professional expertise we are basically on our own when it concerns the cadets.

But how would a MD, Nurse, Dietitian EMT ext who was designated a Health Services Officer by the CC get promoted? 

Some say its just a year in service to go from CAPT to MAJ but I cant find anything in the regs.

[lordmonar]

That's not really true.

Medical Professionals are free to do anything they want.......but they have to understand that CAP does not have any malpractice insurance and that they are accepting the entire risk upon themselves.

Pat,

I'm going to disagree strongly with this part.

That statement standing alone would make it seem like HSOs can engage in medical treatment as long as they have their own liability coverage.   And that is simply not true.  Our regulations specifically prohibit HSOs from engaging in any non-emergency medical treatment even if they own their own insurance company.

The main reason, of course, is that liability insurance not only covers the medical professional, but also their employer.  (In this case, CAP.)  If an HSO self-insured and then engaged in prohibited medical treatment that went sour, CAP, Inc. might still be on the hook.  So we can't allow HSOs to perform non-emergency treatment; violations of this "bright line rule" risk the very existence of CAP.  It doesn't take too many multi-million dollar malpractice verdicts before we are out of existence.

Just read and follow the regulations in this area.  They are pretty clear.

Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer

I'm sorry....you are correct.  That was what I was meant to say. 

We can give EMERGENCY MEDICAL treatment up to our personal level of training.....but CAP is NOT in the business of providing that training, certifying anyone in that training or providing that service.

A doctor on a ground team could do his thing to save a life....but he can't treat that same patient (or any patient) for his high blood pressure.

[lordmonar]

Ok... so I get it when it comes to our professional expertise we are basically on our own when it concerns the cadets.

But how would a MD, Nurse, Dietitian EMT ext who was designated a Health Services Officer by the CC get promoted? 

Some say its just a year in service to go from CAPT to MAJ but I cant find anything in the regs.

CAPR 35-5 para 5-3 c. says that licensed physicians are initally appointed Capt and can be promoted to Maj after 1 year.

So a Dr would have to complete Level I and he would be a Capt.  Appoint him as a HSO and 1 year later they can pin on Maj.

[KioGoten]

Ahhh that is what I was looking for. 

So one year huh? Not that long 

Is there anything n the regs which states that HSO can or can not teach the cadets about wellness, nutrition and exercise?

[arajca]

Ahhh that is what I was looking for. 

So one year huh? Not that long 

Is there anything n the regs which states that HSO can or can not teach the cadets about wellness, nutrition and exercise?

Check CAPR 160-1. I believe there is some mention of those topics in the CPFT pamphlete (CAPP 52-18?). Actually, it sounds like a good idea.

[KioGoten]

They only reason I ask is because there has been an increasing ammount of children who are becoming obese in the country. 

I dont know if CAP cadets fit into that statistic but I dont want my cadets to get there... ever.

I am planning on teaching them about nutrition and wellness this upcoming meeting mixed in with their PT session. 

I saw that there is something about nutrition education in the CAP regs but its old lol.

Any way I could get these things updated or submit something so it could be updated?

[Short Field]

^^^ LOL.  You really are new to CAP.   

[JC004]

They only reason I ask is because there has been an increasing ammount of children who are becoming obese in the country. 

I dont know if CAP cadets fit into that statistic but I dont want my cadets to get there... ever.

I am planning on teaching them about nutrition and wellness this upcoming meeting mixed in with their PT session. 

I saw that there is something about nutrition education in the CAP regs but its old lol.

Any way I could get these things updated or submit something so it could be updated?

Umm...well, see, it's like this.  In order to get a reg changed, it'll have to be approved by the National Board.  So you will want to submit it to your local friendly National Board member (wing commander).  Generally, they will refer it to committee unless it's be hashed out as far as those specialty issues before it is brought to a vote.

They like to change regulations, but generally only to add unnecessary requirements or change uniforms.  So you'd have your best luck with a rider strategy, such as what is used in Congress.  The whole thing is a lot like this, actually:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

[KioGoten]

Awwww man... why is it so hard to change something so small? lol

Oh well, I will try to get something changed, the kids deserve it.

Would a petition help things along?

[arajca]

A petition probably wouldn't help.

An interesting read is the Sept 09 NB minutes (here), page 47. A real HSO program was approved. Just need to follow up with National to see how it's developing.

Also, several years ago, a proposal for an HSO track was developed. After HWSRN was removed, the proposal languished. It's available on the CAP Health Services Yahoo! group or see the attachments below.

[JayT]

They only reason I ask is because there has been an increasing ammount of children who are becoming obese in the country. 

I dont know if CAP cadets fit into that statistic but I dont want my cadets to get there... ever.

I am planning on teaching them about nutrition and wellness this upcoming meeting mixed in with their PT session. 

I saw that there is something about nutrition education in the CAP regs but its old lol.

Any way I could get these things updated or submit something so it could be updated?

There's nothing to stop you from starting your own program and spreading the ideas and documetns via CAPTalk and Cadet Stuff. Grass roots at it's finest!

[Ned]

I am planning on teaching them about nutrition and wellness this upcoming meeting mixed in with their PT session. 

I saw that there is something about nutrition education in the CAP regs its old lol.

Any way I could get these things updated or submit something so it could be updated?

Capt,

Were you looking at Chapter Three of CAPP 52-18 (The Cadet Physical Fitness Program by any chance?

We used the latest government nutrition information when we wrote in in 2003, but I suppose there is always a lot of science going on in this area.  We'd like to be current in the information we pass along to the troops.

Please let us know what we can do to imporve.

Ned Lee
Acting National Cadet Advisor

[Pylon]

And to answer your earlier question about making Major:  completing Level 3, accruing 3 years TIG as a Captain, and convincing your chain to sign off on your promotion is the way that everybody else does it.

[KioGoten]

Capt,

Were you looking at Chapter Three of CAPP 52-18 (The Cadet Physical Fitness Program by any chance?

We used the latest government nutrition information when we wrote in in 2003, but I suppose there is always a lot of science going on in this area.  We'd like to be current in the information we pass along to the troops.

Please let us know what we can do to imporve.

Ned Lee
Acting National Cadet Advisor

Ned,

There are much newer facts concerning nutrition and exercise now from 2003-2010.  The mypyramid.gov has changed and portion sizes have changed.  Exercise has also increase from 15-20 minutes to 20-30 minutes a day.  Of course this doesnt mean running for 20-30 even though that would be best, but at least 20-30 minutes of activity.

There is a HUGE list, I could get some material together and put it up here and see what you guys think.

[Pylon]

The mypyramid.gov has changed and portion sizes have changed.

Though really the value of the recommendations of a governmental/political body which is subjected to the influences of some very large and wealthy lobbies is dubious at best.

[KioGoten]

Though really the value of the recommendations of a governmental/political body which is subjected to the influences of some very large and wealthy lobbies is dubious at best.

Mike,

You are very much right.  For this reason, studies which are not bias should be used for the standard of care in nutrition and exercise.  But since mypyramid.gov is a standard, one should compare the study results to the website and the information which was gathered there. 

For the most part mp.gov is alright, I would improve things but something that is free... ehhh I guess it will do 

[Short Field]

And to answer your earlier question about making Major:  completing Level 3, accruing 3 years TIG as a Captain, and convincing your chain to sign off on your promotion is the way that everybody else does it.

I think he just needs 3 years TIG.
According to CAPR Reg 35-5 para 5-2.

Training Requirements. Professional personnel must complete Level I prior to appointment to CAP officer grade. Health Service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers are exempt from all other training requirements prescribed for promotion to additional grades.

Further down CAPR Reg 35-5 in para 5-4.

Promotions.
a. After initial appointment, professional personnel may be eligible for future promotions by satisfying the requirements outlined in paragraph 2-1, except:
(1) Health service personnel and legal officers are exempt from senior member professional development requirements after Level I.

[KioGoten]

Cool,

That rocks lol.
Happy happy joy joy... (For all the ren and stimpy fans)

Now is it 1 year TIG for promotion or is it 3 years?  Because I know chaplains have to follow the same routine right?

[dhon27]

Read the reg: CAPR 35-5, Section E, 5-4.

[ßτε]

CAPR 35-5 para. 5-3c(4) may apply:

Major. Licensed physician appointed a unit health service program officer in accordance with CAPR 160-1 who has served 1 year time-in-grade as a captain.

If the HSO is not a licensed physician, then it would be 3 years.

[KioGoten]

Ahhh but what if the HSO had a PhD and is a Professor of 5 years? 

[arajca]

If they are not a LICENSED PHYSICIAN, the other initials don't get anything extra. If they are not serving as AEO, the same with the professorship.