Hawk Mountain what to expect

[cadetchris]

     I will most likely be attending hawk this year. I really like to know from someone who has been, what to expect. I mainly want to know what to prepare for so far as physical requirements. Would be great to know what to be ready for, so far as PT, weight of the gear, ect... I know there are other threads about this but they have gone way too far OT.  Thanks in advance....

[davidsinn]

Start here then try here and here.

[cadetchris]

 Those were the threads I was talking about......

[davidsinn]

Those were the threads I was talking about......

That's pretty much what you'll get. Hawk is not a popular place on this board.

[cadetchris]

     I see...
I kind of got the idea of that from reading those other threads... 

However, if anyone who has been wants to help me out, i'd be very happy.

[a2capt]

Which I don't quite get, if you have a problem with how some of the folks come away from it, deal with that. But don't shoot everyone asking about it, or everyone asking practically anything gets answered with a search button. Like this thread shows, the original poster actually did search.

One of those threads has a cadet saying they went multiple times and would be happy to help via PM.

[cadetchris]

Which I don't quite get, if you have a problem with how some of the folks come away from it, deal with that. But don't shoot everyone asking about it, or everyone asking practically anything gets answered with a search button. Like this thread shows, the original poster actually did search.

I agree, it seems like 90% of the posts on this site are bashing another post. Once in a blue moon, you actually get a helpful post pertaining to the topic, such as yours. For that, I thank you.

Back on topic, i'm probably not the only one who has questions about this, and I think many people would benefit from it being here, in plain, simple, honest answers to their questions. Anyone who is willing to do so, I would owe you one.

[cadetchris]

Mainly what I'm asking for is like a play by play, with a walkthrough of what goes on each day... Any help would be great.

[DC]

Mainly what I'm asking for is like a play by play, with a walkthrough of what goes on each day... Any help would be great.

I have never been to HM, but I doubt you will get that from anyone. Part of the experience with most NCSAs is not knowing exactly what to expect. Several years ago a friend of mine went, and when he came back he told me they were instructed not to talk about the specifics of the course.

YMMV.

[SilverEagle2]

Several years ago a friend of mine went, and when he came back he told me they were instructed not to talk about the specifics of the course.

Having been there myself, I find this hard to believe. Not talking about the course does nothing to perk the interest of others to come and nothing at Hawk is secret. That would be like IACE saying, don't tell others so they will apply. I think he was pulling your leg.

It was a cool experience but a lot of hard work. I did however do R-2, R-1, and R-A all in my first year. The skills transfer and lessons learned are very valuable personally as well as CAP. It will challenge you physically, but once the sore muscles recover, you will be glad you went.

[Nathan]

Mainly what I'm asking for is like a play by play, with a walkthrough of what goes on each day... Any help would be great.

I have never been to HM, but I doubt you will get that from anyone. Part of the experience with most NCSAs is not knowing exactly what to expect. Several years ago a friend of mine went, and when he came back he told me they were instructed not to talk about the specifics of the course.

YMMV.

Eh, people say the same thing about COS. What they actually say at COS is, "Don't talk about the specifics of what you do here", with the intention of ensuring there is some degree of stress and learning. Many of the activities at COS are based on having to figure out a solution to a problem, and if people are talking about what sort of problems there are (ie, the specifics), then the cadet will already have an idea of what to expect, and therefore not have to do nearly as much work. And at COS, it's not about beating the puzzle, it's about SOLVING the puzzle. Going in with advanced knowledge prevents a cadet from actually solving the puzzle, which means the experience is ruined.

That doesn't mean that someone can't talk about the day-to-day of COS, such as the fact that it's a highly academic environment, it's fairly stressful academically, and cadets are expected to do things like write papers and give speeches. And I could go into the average day easily.

So if a cadet is talking about things at Hawk like secret activities are going on there, it's probably an exaggeration. Even I can pick up what an average day is like based on the website, pictures, and talking with other cadets. What I don't know (since I haven't been) is what specific problems I may encounter and be expected to resolve are, since that is part of the learning experience. I am well aware that there is some sort of obstacle course at Hawk, including a Tarzan-swing over a mud pit, but I don't know much about what I'd have to face, nor the easiest way of completing the course. If I ever decided to go, knowing these things ahead of time would ruin the experience.

The best place to get this information would probably be personally, from another cadet or senior who has attended. It's a pretty contentious issue on CAPTalk, justifiably or otherwise, and you could probably find other resources that are less likely to end up in a massive argument.

[JC004]

You'll be sleeping in the woods.  Prepare for that.  Pack as the packing list tells you.  You will be doing PT almost every day, including the obstacle course.  You'll be at the base camp for the first part of the activity with a field exercise at the end.  The terrain can be rocky, so you need sturdy, well broken in boots.  Goretex is good.  Waterproof, organize, and bag everything.  Put your name on everything.  Get the lightest, least bulky equipment that you can afford.  Focus on lightweight.  A Camelbak is good.  Get good hiking boot socks - not cotton.

[Michael]

Legitimate question about the school-----

Do you have to have attended a previous summer school to attend the Ranger Staff Training course at Summer School?

I have heard various things on this and was wondering what the real requirements are.

If it is a true prerequisite, can it be challenged?

[davidsinn]

Legitimate question about the school-----

Do you have to have attended a previous summer school to attend the Ranger Staff Training course at Summer School?

I have heard various things on this and was wondering what the real requirements are.

If it is a true prerequisite, can it be challenged?

I don't know the answer but how can you be an instructor for something you have never attended?

[Turtle1]

Actually at the completion of Ranger Staff Training you can become an instructor even though you never attended Summer School...I know it does not make much sense to me either, but I guess if you are awarded the all important orange scarf you then know so much?  At least in fellow ranger's opinions.

[a2capt]

There are times when similar activities, or a collection thereof, provide similar experience. Or perhaps someones background.


Usually I say that staffing an event shouldn't be done before having attended it, but there are also times when attendance wasn't possible but alternate attendance of other things is enough in that events may be similar on goals, or function. 


Blah blah.. basically, if you think you have a case, and you fit the criteria that they would use for staff selection, well .. apply and say here's why.


There's usually more staff applications than positions for any given event. So you just gotta play the game and see, if it's an option, or could be made an option. 

[Nathan]

Legitimate question about the school-----

Do you have to have attended a previous summer school to attend the Ranger Staff Training course at Summer School?

I have heard various things on this and was wondering what the real requirements are.

If it is a true prerequisite, can it be challenged?

http://www.pawingcap.com/hawk/the_staff_cadets.htm

Prerequisites:

    * Cadets must be at least 13 years of age
    * Cadets must completed the Mary Feik Achievement #3
    * Cadets Must be in Physical Fitness Category 1 (no limitations; this program is extremely physically demanding)
    * Completion of an Encampment is REQUIRED before Staffing a School.
    * Future attendance at Cadet Leadership School is recommended to be awarded the Orange Scarf.
    * Completion of a Summer Ranger School is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED, but not required
    * Cadets and Seniors should have at least General ES Rating
    * Cadets should also complete the FEMA Independent Study Program IS Courses 100, 200, 700 and 800. Links to these courses are on the HMRS HOME PAGE
    * Seniors must have completed Level One, and CPPT
    * Ability to attend and participate at ALL staff training weekends, PA Wing and Ranger Events
       Staff Training generally runs every other weekend from March to June. Exact dates.

[JC004]

...
If it is a true prerequisite, can it be challenged?

Why would you want to challenge it?  Is it some great injustice?

[mynetdude]

Legitimate question about the school-----

Do you have to have attended a previous summer school to attend the Ranger Staff Training course at Summer School?

I have heard various things on this and was wondering what the real requirements are.

If it is a true prerequisite, can it be challenged?

http://www.pawingcap.com/hawk/the_staff_cadets.htm

Prerequisites:

    * Cadets must be at least 13 years of age
    * Cadets must completed the Mary Feik Achievement #3
    * Cadets Must be in Physical Fitness Category 1 (no limitations; this program is extremely physically demanding)
    * Completion of an Encampment is REQUIRED before Staffing a School.
    * Future attendance at Cadet Leadership School is recommended to be awarded the Orange Scarf.
    * Completion of a Summer Ranger School is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED, but not required
    * Cadets and Seniors should have at least General ES Rating
    * Cadets should also complete the FEMA Independent Study Program IS Courses 100, 200, 700 and 800. Links to these courses are on the HMRS HOME PAGE
    * Seniors must have completed Level One, and CPPT
    * Ability to attend and participate at ALL staff training weekends, PA Wing and Ranger Events
       Staff Training generally runs every other weekend from March to June. Exact dates.

Are senior members required to be physically apt? (I would think so for the field portion) and are SMs required to attend ALL of the staff training portions whether they are in the field or not (assuming there are staffing available that do not include being in the field).

[JC004]

Are senior members required to be physically apt? (I would think so for the field portion) and are SMs required to attend ALL of the staff training portions whether they are in the field or not (assuming there are staffing available that do not include being in the field).

The sign-offs for the grades require physical fitness stuff.  Look at their web site for those.  It's not the most rugged terrain in the world, not even the most in Pennsylvania, but there's good reason why you have to be able to do the physical stuff.  They don't have a huge mission base thing as part of their program...It has just never been part of what they do.  They certainly have a bunch of support staff - not tons, but a number.  Those folks are more like encampment support staff than, say, mission base staff.

[Spike]

Don't make the Hawks angry.  They will swoop down and eat your face off.  Not a pretty situation!!

[mynetdude]

Are senior members required to be physically apt? (I would think so for the field portion) and are SMs required to attend ALL of the staff training portions whether they are in the field or not (assuming there are staffing available that do not include being in the field).

The sign-offs for the grades require physical fitness stuff.  Look at their web site for those.  It's not the most rugged terrain in the world, not even the most in Pennsylvania, but there's good reason why you have to be able to do the physical stuff.  They don't have a huge mission base thing as part of their program...It has just never been part of what they do.  They certainly have a bunch of support staff - not tons, but a number.  Those folks are more like encampment support staff than, say, mission base staff.

My bad, I realize this is more of an encampment than an ES function like NBB is. I can do mild terrain and short hikes which is probably opposite of HMRS.  I would guess most of the staff members if not all are with the class when they are doing their field work instead of staying behind.

Its been a long time since I've been to the HMRS website, looks good keep up the work .

[JC004]

My bad, I realize this is more of an encampment than an ES function like NBB is. I can do mild terrain and short hikes which is probably opposite of HMRS.  I would guess most of the staff members if not all are with the class when they are doing their field work instead of staying behind.

Its been a long time since I've been to the HMRS website, looks good keep up the work .

I wouldn't plan on going expecting mild terrain and short hikes.  Have a look at the pictures they have on their site.  You'll see the terrain and all.  I think the photo galleries are there...I haven't been on the site in a few months.

I don't do their site...I don't do the PAWG site at all, actually.  They've been pretty good about including a decent amount of information though.

[HMRSRANGER]

Several years ago a friend of mine went, and when he came back he told me they were instructed not to talk about the specifics of the course.

Having been there myself, I find this hard to believe. Not talking about the course does nothing to perk the interest of others to come and nothing at Hawk is secret. That would be like IACE saying, don't tell others so they will apply. I think he was pulling your leg.

It was a cool experience but a lot of hard work. I did however do R-2, R-1, and R-A all in my first year. The skills transfer and lessons learned are very valuable personally as well as CAP. It will challenge you physically, but once the sore muscles recover, you will be glad you went.

When did you attend hawk?, and thats alot you got done your first year what squadron did you go through

[Spike]

^ I do not believe it was EVER possible to go from R-3 to Advanced in 1 year.  If so, there must have been a lot of "pencil-whipping" I am sure.   

[davidsinn]

^ I do not believe it was EVER possible to go from R-3 to Advanced in 1 year.  If so, there must have been a lot of "pencil-whipping" I am sure.   

Not necessarily. As a GTL I have 2/3 of that already done. As an Eagle Scout I could knock out half the rest pretty easily and once I have my self back into shape I could manage the remainder. I could see it being done in a week. Weather it's allowed or not is a different story.

[Rodriguez]

R-3 to Advanced, jeez...Quite the achievment. I guess its possible if your already a GTL, it would just be a lot of transfering of sign-offs.

[sarmed1]

Tango students are usually the ones to go from 0 to hero in one week; The catch usually is they are already qualified at an equivilent GT level, so there isnt much "learning" required, more a verification of existing skill sets.  Almost all of the skills are GT equivilent tasks, the bulk of the HMRS skills are rope and navigation related.  The only one I have ever seen waived is Winter Schools for out of state folks who live where it doestn get too cold.

mk