HAircuts at encampment

hard8 · April 24, 2010, 09:55:51 AM

I was just wondering how any of you all handle a cadet that showed up at encampment without a proper haircut. I have been told that we would first have to have a parents permission even to send the kid to the barber shop but if the kid's parents said no or couldn't be reached the answer would be no. We had an incident at our winter encampment where two twins showed up and while standing in line to check in, thought they were girls (no, really). The commander and commandant refused to have any thing. And we were on an air force base. Comments?

JC004 · April 24, 2010, 10:03:48 AM

Do a search. This has already been discussed here.

hard8 · April 24, 2010, 10:12:19 AM

I am new to this situation. How do you search a topic like this?

JC004 · April 24, 2010, 10:14:24 AM

^^^ Up there is a search button. Try words like "encampment" and "haircut."

arajca · April 24, 2010, 02:35:41 PM

At the COWG encampments, cadets who are out of compliance on haircuts at check-in get taken to the barber or sent home. It is explained in the application packets that cadets must meet the standards.

Gunner C · April 24, 2010, 06:01:22 PM

Why is this even a question? I'd do the same with SMs - with a statement on their application that they'd have to sign.

lordmonar · April 24, 2010, 09:50:44 PM

Cut your hair or go home.....it is that simple. I don't see a need for parental permission as they already gave that when they allowed their kid to join CAP.

C/MSgt Lunsford · April 24, 2010, 10:03:31 PM

This is why I keep my hair like so at all times...

Gunner C · April 24, 2010, 10:59:32 PM

Now that's a fashion statement.

hard8 · May 06, 2010, 07:02:48 AM

well lots of good answers, but our folks here won't budge. Basicall yI was told not to make an issue..they didn't want to offend anyone. And we wonder why we contintue to lose members. Thanks for all of those of you who replied. Regards Hard8 (A very old colonel)

Rotorhead · May 06, 2010, 12:16:34 PM

Quote from: hard8 on May 06, 2010, 07:02:48 AM
well lots of good answers, but our folks here won't budge. Basicall yI was told not to make an issue..they didn't want to offend anyone. And we wonder why we contintue to lose members. Thanks for all of those of you who replied. Regards Hard8 (A very old colonel)

So you're saying they violate the regs, which mandate grooming standards?

a2capt · May 06, 2010, 03:32:42 PM

I'm sorry, but what the hell kind of example is that setting?

Pathetic. Too weak to enforce the regs, get the heck out of command and become a concierge dept.

Eclipse · May 06, 2010, 04:05:24 PM

There is a mentality among many commanders which asserts that quantity of participants trumps quality of training.

The encampment experience is supposed to be the nearest thing to "right" in a CAP activity that you can get to - it is staffed at the wing level or higher, vetted by an independent 3rd party (CAP-USAF), and has a fairly objective set of goals and curriculum. (Granted, 52-16 is a little "squishy", but in the grand scheme it provides a fair outline of expectations).

Fixing home-unit issues of uniform wear, grooming / appearance, demeanor, and understanding is one of the points of the experience and the mission of the staff. Failing that puts the entire situation in jeopardy.

A cadet allowed to overtly flaunt the appearance regs not only misses out on a critical follower-ship experience, but also sets the example that exceptions in a paramilitary environment are "no big deal" - poison to organizations like CAP, and a core problem today.

I don't believe it is within CAP's authority or mandate to force a cadet to get a haircut, however the standards in 39-1 are clear, so the choice would be laid out to the cadet and his parents - comply or leave. I would also not allow a member of staff to shear a cadet unless they happened to be a hair professional and we had the parent's overt permission, otherwise its off to the base barber at the cadet's expense.

This is another example of a situation where the standard is clear and the remediation should be direct and unexciting, but local leadership decides to be creative in either commission or execution and in the end makes things worse than the original problem.

PA Guy · May 06, 2010, 06:41:54 PM

Quote from: hard8 on May 06, 2010, 07:02:48 AM
well lots of good answers, but our folks here won't budge. Basicall yI was told not to make an issue..they didn't want to offend anyone. And we wonder why we contintue to lose members. Thanks for all of those of you who replied. Regards Hard8 (A very old colonel)

Shame on your leadership for being cowards. The standard is given to the cadets prior to arrival. If they are out of standard on arrival they are given the choice of getting a haircut or going home, it really is that simple. These same cadets will someday go to a NCSA where the standard is enforced and not understand why they can't have their way like they do in their home wing.

Cecil DP · May 06, 2010, 07:20:45 PM

I would call their parents to pick them up, for failure to meet the standards. I had this same discussion with our Cadet XO the other day about a couple of new cadets who didn't want to get their haircut. I won't cut their hair against their wishes, (Lest we get assault and cadet abuse allegations), but they also don't have to be promoted due to not meeting the grooming standards.

raivo · May 06, 2010, 07:35:30 PM

I just knew this was Florida before even looking at the original poster's charter number.

NIN · May 07, 2010, 04:35:03 AM

I was the commandant of cadets at a large region-level encampment a few years back. During in-processing, I come out of my office and there was a cadet standing in the line for logistics issue who I swore was a female cadet.

I checked my rosters. Nope, male cadet. Oh, BTW, his hair didn't even meet standards for a female cadet.

Literally everybody had to run into my office and say "Did you see that cadet out there? That cadet needs a haircut!!"

(never mind the TAC officer 1Lt who demanded that I call the cadet's squadron commander and tell that commander to drive the 4 hrs to the encampment site to personally administer the cadet a haircut because he was "sick of commanders sending cadets to encampment who did not meet the standards." Of course, I pulled the CAPF 31 for a cadet from this Lt's squadron out of the files on my desk and said "Last time I looked in 52-16, Lieutenant, a cadet had to have the Curry award to attend encampment. Why, then, did you sign off on the CAPF 31 for encampment for a cadet who is a C/AB? What was it you said about not meeting the standards? Are the windows in your glass house clean?")

Usually we have the local barber come out and fix any haircut issues the 2nd day. So here is Cadet Longhair in the "to get a haircut" line. And what does he ask for? Thats right, kids: The cueball cut. And he got it. Looked pretty good too, and he liked it.

Mom showed up at the end of the week and had a very, very minor flip out, but it wound up being totally no factor.

Come to find out, the cadet's home unit didn't even bother to enforce 39-1 as it pertained to grooming. Mom swore she'd never heard from anybody at the unit that her son needed a haircut.

BTW, a haircut != "cadet abuse."

tsrup · May 07, 2010, 05:32:31 AM

I have a very simple solution for cadets who do not wish to comply with 39-1.

Those cadets are not issued uniform items.

Had the experience today with a cadet with very shaggy out of reg hair (notorious) who wanted to issue himself new boots because he "couldn't get his to shine anymore" (another issue entirely). The conversation ended with my statement of "I'll believe you care about the appearance of your uniform when you get your hair in regs"

mynetdude · May 07, 2010, 06:18:58 AM

Quote from: tsrup on May 07, 2010, 05:32:31 AM
I have a very simple solution for cadets who do not wish to comply with 39-1.

Those cadets are not issued uniform items.

Had the experience today with a cadet with very shaggy out of reg hair (notorious) who wanted to issue himself new boots because he "couldn't get his to shine anymore" (another issue entirely). The conversation ended with my statement of "I'll believe you care about the appearance of your uniform when you get your hair in regs"

Yep and if a cadet can't be in uniform which is part of the CP then they get 2B'd right?

tsrup · May 07, 2010, 06:23:27 AM

Quote from: mynetdude on May 07, 2010, 06:18:58 AM
Quote from: tsrup on May 07, 2010, 05:32:31 AM
I have a very simple solution for cadets who do not wish to comply with 39-1.

Those cadets are not issued uniform items.

Had the experience today with a cadet with very shaggy out of reg hair (notorious) who wanted to issue himself new boots because he "couldn't get his to shine anymore" (another issue entirely). The conversation ended with my statement of "I'll believe you care about the appearance of your uniform when you get your hair in regs"

Yep and if a cadet can't be in uniform which is part of the CP then they get 2B'd right?

Can't or Wont?