Photo ID Card Question

[flyboy76]

Are there any situations where the photo ID card is necessary in CAP?  Or even advantageous?

If not, why do we have them?

[Eclipse]

Access to military bases and other facilities.

Shopping at MCSS or similar (including AAFES).

Setting up banks accounts or similar services with financial institutions.

When setting up tax-free purchases at retailers.

When identifying yourself to outside agencies or other authorities.

Identification to other units/wings that don't know you.

[flyboy76]

Thanks, Eclipse.  Would the non-photo card and a driver's license work for base access?

[Eclipse]

PM sent.

[PA Guy]

Thanks, Eclipse.  Would the non-photo card and a driver's license work for base access?

Yes, in the vast majority of places.

[PHall]

But picture "Membership" cards do tend to keep gate guards and security guards happy.

[RADIOMAN015]

But picture "Membership" cards do tend to keep gate guards and security guards happy.

I agree that all senior members should have a picture ID card.

HOWEVER, depending upon the specific installations' security procedures, CAP members could be prevented from entering based upon the security force protection level or even a local procedure requiring a specific authorization listing.

Since our squadron is on a military base, my personal opinion is that if a member stops showing up for meetings & doesn't return our calls or emails we should asked for the ID card back and if we don't comply we should notify the base security to take the card and deny access to the individual IF they come to the gate.    Also anyone in a PATRON or other status shouldn't automatically get access.

My concern is that a CAP member not associated with our unit, gains access to the base, and has an incident that gives CAP a black eye and may have an impact to our unit.

We've actually had the Chief of Security Police come to the squadron and talk with the senior members & cadets' parents regarding entry procedures and other areas of mutual concern.

RM   

[Eclipse]

Since our squadron is on a military base, my personal opinion is that if a member stops showing up for meetings & doesn't return our calls or emails we should asked for the ID card back and if we don't comply we should notify the base security to take the card and deny access to the individual IF they come to the gate.    Also anyone in a PATRON or other status shouldn't automatically get access.

My concern is that a CAP member not associated with our unit, gains access to the base, and has an incident that gives CAP a black eye and may have an impact to our unit.

I understand the concern, however its outside your control and unless you have a specific reason to be concerned, none of your business.

CAP members are allowed access to military resources for specific reasons under specific circumstances, and that doesn't include membership at a specific unit.

In one sentence you are pre-supposing some control over the behavior of every CAP member in your wing, and outside, not to mention
echelons above your AOR.

I would say the only person who would be remotely in a position to make a statement like that would be a State Director, and then only
with the support of the Wing CC.

Common courtesy for other unit CC's would have people notifying each other when they intend to play in someone else's pool, but absent
some sort of Wing policy, its unworkable to vet every member with legit access to an MCSS, etc. just because you are "concerned".

BTDT, vigilance and consequences are your only option.

[a2capt]

The problem with restricting access based on past meeting attendance or participation, and/or based on membership status of "active" vs. "patron" is I have to wonder if many of these branch police forces would just say "screw this" rather than have yet another set of criteria bestowed on them and just not let anyone in.

Especially with some of the ID cards that show up. They put that hologram like thing on the card. Fine, except it starts to wear off after a few months. Look closely at the CAP majcom on the card, looks like the card vendor grabbed the GIF image from the web site because they didn't have one, and reduced it. It looks awful.

In other words, a plastic card printer and 27minutes in Photoshop and you too can have a Cracker Jack prize quality ID card with a picture on it.

I bought it once, but not again. Not until it doesn't look like a hack.

As for the list posted earlier,

o Access to military bases and other facilities.

The provided card works just fine with this, too. As noted in plenty of CAP publications, base access is determined by the base command.

o Shopping at MCSS or similar (including AAFES).

Given that most folks make their first purchases on the card that says "temporary" on it, and by regulation we are permitted to do so, and I believe it even encourages that a copy of the regulation be brought along..  the provided ID card works here, too.

o Setting up banks accounts or similar services with financial institutions.

99% of us shouldn't be doing this anyway, with the onset of Wing Banker.  Since the photo ID card is not a government issued ID, it's got no real weight and since it looks hack the way it does, I might hope that any bank that it was shown to, would then want something else just to make sure it really is "you" ;-)

o When setting up tax-free purchases at retailers.

The form thats required, and the provided ID card work well for this, too.

o When identifying yourself to outside agencies or other authorities.

This is why I think we need a decent, legit looking ID card. But we have what we have, like uniforms, there are multiple possibilities. Most of them are the provided card, then the picture ID but also that other form that one puts their picture on and has signed by their command and it states that it is not valid unless accompanied by the CAP provided ID card.  So when someone presents an ID to the outside agency, "hmmm.. his card doesn't look like the last one that got presented, whats with these people?" .. and watch, the third one comes in with the laminated photo accompaniment ID card. D'oh!

o Identification to other units/wings that don't know you.

Since they are CAP, they know what our cards look like, the provided ID card should work just fine here. If it does not, there's a Real Problem.

[Eclipse]

Ever seen what most state driver's licenses look like after about a month in your wallet?  Think the same thing about Photoshop
can't be said for that as well?

Yes, they could have done a better job, but its better than a form 19, and is more professional, even in its current format, than the
library card.

[Rotorhead]

My "regular" card plus a DL works fine for bases that don't use DBIDS. And they're all going to DBIDS anyway, so you'll need one of those eventually.

[spacecommand]

I thought they corrected the MAJCOM image a while back.  Wasn't there a problem where it said CIVIL AIR PATROL instead of US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY.  I don't think having the photo ID is that bad, and I don't think the USAF or DOD will give CAP CAC cards ever, the current card was a compromise I read.

[Rotorhead]

I thought they corrected the MAJCOM image a while back.  Wasn't there a problem where it said CIVIL AIR PATROL instead of US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY.  I don't think having the photo ID is that bad, and I don't think the USAF or DOD will give CAP CAC cards ever, the current card was a compromise I read.

CAP members can get contractors' cards for specific bases. I have a DBIDS card allowing 24/7 access to my local USAF base.

[vmstan]

Are there any situations where the photo ID card is necessary in CAP?  Or even advantageous?

Chicks dig it. 

[PHall]

I thought they corrected the MAJCOM image a while back.  Wasn't there a problem where it said CIVIL AIR PATROL instead of US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY.  I don't think having the photo ID is that bad, and I don't think the USAF or DOD will give CAP CAC cards ever, the current card was a compromise I read.

CAP members can get contractors' cards for specific bases. I have a DBIDS card allowing 24/7 access to my local USAF base.

That's a Base Commander option and does not happen at every base.

[Rotorhead]

So, then, if the base uses DBIDS cards, which means NO other ID would be allowed, and CAP members aren't allowed to get them by the Base Commander, does that mean CAP simply has no access to the base?

[PA Guy]

^^^^
No, they just have to get a visitor pass.

[Eclipse]

So, then, if the base uses DBIDS cards, which means NO other ID would be allowed, and CAP members aren't allowed to get them by the Base Commander, does that mean CAP simply has no access to the base?

Too many assumptions in that question to answer it.

People who have a legitimate reason to access a military resource will be granted access - the mechanics are a local decision.

[Cherokeepilot]

So, then, if the base uses DBIDS cards, which means NO other ID would be allowed, and CAP members aren't allowed to get them by the Base Commander, does that mean CAP simply has no access to the base?

If the Base Commander denies access to CAP you don't get on base for anything including AFRCC missions.  We went through this situation for years.  The only CAP members with access were active duty and retired members of CAP.  This with a Base Commander whose son was a cadet member of the squadron.  The AFRCC beacon missions usually turned to cluster because of the access issue.  The access issue hampered and outright compromised trust between the base and the squadron.  I've still got members who don't want to go onto the base for squadron meetings now that we are recognized for access. 

[FW]

Are there any situations where the photo ID card is necessary in CAP?  Or even advantageous?

If not, why do we have them?

No, they are a nice option for members; nothing more than that.  I have one.  It makes me feel better about myself....