Is the Hock Store really done?

[SSIAJ]

It looks like they may have lost the case. On the their website I see a message dated March 15 that says the court ruled they dont have a license to sell Civil Air Patrol items.  Man, this organization is getting hard to work for.......Oh wait, I mean volunteer for.......

[tdepp]

It looks like they may have lost the case. On the their website I see a message dated March 15 that says the court ruled they dont have a license to sell Civil Air Patrol items.  Man, this organization is getting hard to work for.......Oh wait, I mean volunteer for.......

http://www.thehock.com/ looks like they aren't giving up the ghost quite yet if you keep reading their statement.  I understand the licensing issue and don't wish to rehash it here.  Let's hope the Hock can still make a go of it with a different business and marketing plan for the non-licensed items they can sell.  I'm guessing there was a settlement agreement reached recently.

[Major Carrales]

I've always been impressed with their "gear" packages and will use them to aquire my personal gear from now on....it will cost a bit more than utilizing surplus stores, however, I will remain as loyal to Lt Col Flanagan as he has been to CAP since the 1950s.

¡Salud!, Lt Col Flanagan, ¡Salud!

[Rotorhead]

It looks like they may have lost the case. On the their website I see a message dated March 15 that says the court ruled they dont have a license to sell Civil Air Patrol items.  Man, this organization is getting hard to work for.......Oh wait, I mean volunteer for.......

We've run a long thread on this already.

Bottom line: Tom's a great guy who has done a lot for CAP members, but he's been breaking the law. perhaps simply hoping he'd be ignored.

Vanguard has an exclusive contract. They have the right to tell him to stop.

[Майор Хаткевич]

"The Hock Shop" ...Isn't that a weird name for a uniform accessory source?  Actually it's not so strange - but before I tell you about it, let me tell you something about myself. I'm a senior member of Civil Air Patrol and have been a member since joining as a cadet in 1956 in Maine. When I moved to Massachusetts, the unit that I was with at the time was having difficulty obtaining uniform accessories for its members. (This was before the "CAP Bookstore", predecessor to CAP-Mart, started selling uniform accessories). The local store which sold the items had a habit of selling senior items to cadets and vise versa. This, understandably, caused a lot of headaches for everyone. I figured that if I put up a few dollars, I could buy a few of the basic Civil Air Patrol  items, and put the profits from the sales back into inventory. The cadets, meanwhile, would be able to buy what they needed easily, and for less money they could elsewhere. Word of this little enterprise spread to nearby units which expressed a desire to buy their Civil Air Patrol items from me rather than to send away and have to wait. One year, I was asked to bring my "box of goodies" to a summer encampment. While there, one of the cadets in a group which was looking over my display, made a comment to one of his fellow cadets in which he referred to my operations as "The Hock Shop". Well, the name stuck, and by word of mouth, spread throughout the Wing, eventually getting back to me. As everyone around knew my hitherto unnamed operation as "The Hock Shop", "The Hock Shop" it became.

Go read that section...funny, but since the "Civil Air Patrol" is still there, even if you can't see it w/o highlighting, they are just asking for more trouble

[Pylon]

Go read that section...funny, but since the "Civil Air Patrol" is still there, even if you can't see it w/o highlighting, they are just asking for more trouble

Uhm, Civil Air Patrol can't stop people from saying their name.  Stopping that would be akin to NHQ telling a company that sells gear that they can't put on their website that they welcome Civil Air Patrol customers or have a discount for Civil Air Patrol members.

[Seabee219]

  I wrote TOM a letter and told him that I will buy from him until I have to go somewhere else. I like the prices and the shipping (free for now)    I am sure he will find a way to get back on track. If we all support his store and buy from him he will not go out of business.  I bet he finds a way to supplement the items he can not sell anymore.  GO TOM

[Майор Хаткевич]

Go read that section...funny, but since the "Civil Air Patrol" is still there, even if you can't see it w/o highlighting, they are just asking for more trouble

Uhm, Civil Air Patrol can't stop people from saying their name.  Stopping that would be akin to NHQ telling a company that sells gear that they can't put on their website that they welcome Civil Air Patrol customers or have a discount for Civil Air Patrol members.

Hawk was specifically told to remove all instances of CAP/Civil Air Patrol as per the message posted earlier. The fact that they have to shrink it to font 1 and make it a subscript proves that they know they are walking a fine line.

[heliodoc]

Depends upon what one defines walking a fine line

CAP has NOtrademark on ANY field gear whatsoever

For CAP to claim THAT..........is pure CAP bunk

WHAT?  CAP has a trademark on MRE's and compasses?  Folks thinking that are smokin some cheap stuff!!

[RedFox24]

Well, I cant, and wont support Vanjunk. 

I cant buy any of our usual products (coins, patches, shirts) from any American vendors for our encampment because of all of the [redacted - mod].

And I am getting to the point where I cant support the program any longer.  Amy and her trolls at NHQ/NB are professionals at incompetence and killing the program with stuff like this.  Renewing this year is going to be a hard decision. And no, this isn't the only straw, just the small, last one that could break the camels back.

[tdepp]

"The Hock Shop" ...Isn't that a weird name for a uniform accessory source?  Actually it's not so strange - but before I tell you about it, let me tell you something about myself. I'm a senior member of Civil Air Patrol and have been a member since joining as a cadet in 1956 in Maine. When I moved to Massachusetts, the unit that I was with at the time was having difficulty obtaining uniform accessories for its members. (This was before the "CAP Bookstore", predecessor to CAP-Mart, started selling uniform accessories). The local store which sold the items had a habit of selling senior items to cadets and vise versa. This, understandably, caused a lot of headaches for everyone. I figured that if I put up a few dollars, I could buy a few of the basic Civil Air Patrol  items, and put the profits from the sales back into inventory. The cadets, meanwhile, would be able to buy what they needed easily, and for less money they could elsewhere. Word of this little enterprise spread to nearby units which expressed a desire to buy their Civil Air Patrol items from me rather than to send away and have to wait. One year, I was asked to bring my "box of goodies" to a summer encampment. While there, one of the cadets in a group which was looking over my display, made a comment to one of his fellow cadets in which he referred to my operations as "The Hock Shop". Well, the name stuck, and by word of mouth, spread throughout the Wing, eventually getting back to me. As everyone around knew my hitherto unnamed operation as "The Hock Shop", "The Hock Shop" it became.

Go read that section...funny, but since the "Civil Air Patrol" is still there, even if you can't see it w/o highlighting, they are just asking for more trouble

The Hock's mention of Civil Air Patrol in their letter to customers is not a trademark infringement as it is a nominative use of the term.  That is what our organization is called.  It's the placement of the term or related terms on goods or services that turns it into infringement sans a licensing agreement.

If you like the Hock, buy what you can from them.  That's the best thing you can do to help.  I will continue to shop them for uniforms, gear, and other items.  Money talks, b.s. walks.

[heliodoc]

CAP association with Vanguard as opposed to finding another source(s) of suppliers is CAP's "last cry" to hold onto its 68 yr old "military roots."

If I am offending........so? 

Tom has provided a service that CAP somehow found a way to "associate" with the military for whatever reason.  Surely it was NOT cost savings.

I am sure will abide by CAP's childish behavior, 'cuz once again for whatever reason, CAP can not play with every one else in the sandbox without having its POOR feelings hurt.

This is one reason why there a number of reasons CAP membership (some) have a sour "attitude" towards the org.  As if some in CAP know what attitude is

GO TOM....Keep selling the stuff CAP has not control whatsoever.......give CAP a RUN for ITS money!!

[Spike]

Is this some big surprise?  We knew last month this was what would happen.  Luckily, AAFES sells CAP Nametapes and Branchtapes at $1.00 each.  Also, I was smart and spent all the Squadrons money on the Hock's insignias etc.  I have guaranteed that for at least the next 3 years, my Cadets and Officers will not get scammed by Vanguard. 

Do I feel bad for Tom.....not at all.  How many years has he been making money off of us?

Do I hate Vanguard.......you bet I do.

Are there ways around Vanguard.......you be there are.  Just sit back and explore the internet.  You can find many things Tom sells cheaper in other locations.   

[lordmonar]

Spike....AAFES is VANGUARD for the most part!

[bosshawk]

Pretty true: I seem to recall that every item of military insignia that I ever bought had a Vanguard label on it.

[Seabee219]

Well, you do not have to feel bad for Tom, but he was in business to make money, so is Vanguard, but I think tom had better prices and much better service.  Id rather spend at THE HOCK

[tdepp]

Pretty true: I seem to recall that every item of military insignia that I ever bought had a Vanguard label on it.

So I walk into the Sioux Falls ANG BX with my ANG buddy.  And lo, to my surprise, what do I see them selling? ANG and USAF insignia and rank from Vanguard and no one else.  OH THE HUMANITY!  It was like TURKEYS DROPPING FROM THE HEAVENS LIKE WET BAGS OF CEMENT, to quote newsman Les Nessman from a famous episode of WKRP.  Yet, Airmen and women were doing their jobs and F-16s were being readied for launch at the base despite this crime against humanity. 

[Eclipse]

^"...the crowd was 'curious', but 'well behaved'..."

[tdepp]

^"As God as my witness I thought turkeys could fly."  Arthur Carlson, station manager, WKRP.  Wasn't he also the CC of the CAP Queen City Cadet Squadron back in the 1970s?   Now THERE's a celebrity!

[Dutchboy]

Please forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but does anyone know if CAP NHQ get a percentage of the VanGuard sales that the Hock Shop is not allowed to sell.  I thought I saw a memo once that stated they did. Just curious to know.