Quote from: Dad2-4 on July 26, 2012, 01:43:51 AM
IMHO, same field/utility/fatigue uniform for everyone, fat and fuzzy or slim and slick. Solid color. Military style, two piece, untucked, i.e. BDU/ABU style. Tapes' background color to match the uniform, white lettering. Boots, black and clean. Patches to a minimum: US flag, qualification badges/wings (background color to match uniform), unit patch.

OD jungle fatigues will do it. But why not blue background color? CAP should go back to the Uniform Manual of 1982 IMHO   

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on July 26, 2012, 04:31:41 AM

Quote from: Stonewall on July 25, 2012, 02:57:58 AM
Meh, I think the blue uniform looks dorky and even less military-esque than a solid OD uniform.

Yeah, so?  Why do we need to look military-esque? CIVIL Air Patrol.  CIVILIAN Auxiliary.  We are not military.

No?  Then throw away our military customs and courtesies, CAPR 39-1, the fact that the Air Force is our parent organization, and more importantly, the fact that the people listed below were drawn to CAP by its military-esque atmosphere:

Colin G. - USMA grad; Captain, Army Special Forces
Megan M. - USMA grad, 1LT, Army Engineer Platoon Leader (Airborne, Sapper)
Greg N. - VA Tech Corps of Cadets, 1LT, Army Military Police (Airborne)
Tom C. - SSgt, USAF Pararescueman
Sam L. - WVU AFROTC, Captain, USAF Engineer
Wayne G. - CW3, US Army, Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Mike M. - MSgt, USAF, AC-130 Spectre Gunship
Devin S. - Captain, USAF, HH-60 CSAR Pilot
Robert H. - Sgt, USMC, V-22 Crew Chief
Josh B. - Army Tomb Guard, now working US Government
Jody V. - Law Enforcement/SWAT Commander
Leo L. - Public School Teacher
Stephen L. - Firefighter and Paramedic
Me - well, you'd be surprised

Just a list of names from the top of my head built over 25 years of young people who were drawn to CAP because of the military structure, heritage, and UNIFORMS.  "Military-esque?"  Yeah, it's important, like it or not.

I actually support "uniformity" in uniforms...and I wore the 'pickle suit' myself for years, cadet and senior, and really liked it...never quite understood why CAP wanted camouflage uniforms for SAR work...anyway, as someone noted, many members already own BBDU, and they are readily available commercially...I think that ought to be where we head, at least for seniors -- BBDUs or flight suits for missions.

Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 26, 2012, 06:09:02 PM
I actually support "uniformity" in uniforms...and I wore the 'pickle suit' myself for years, cadet and senior, and really liked it...never quite understood why CAP wanted camouflage uniforms for SAR work...anyway, as someone noted, many members already own BBDU, and they are readily available commercially...I think that ought to be where we head, at least for seniors -- BBDUs or flight suits for missions.

"uniformity" starting with different BDU uniforms for cadets and seniors?

Personally.....my first choice would be ABUs for everyone....even the fat and fuzzies. 

If we can't do that.....ABUs for cadets....and a solid color od or gray for seniors.....point being.....everyone in the same class of membership is in the same unifrom.

Quote from: lordmonar on July 26, 2012, 07:14:44 PM
Personally.....my first choice would be ABUs for everyone....even the fat and fuzzies. 

If we can't do that.....ABUs for cadets....and a solid color od or gray for seniors.....point being.....everyone in the same class of membership is in the same unifrom.

Why should cadets get to wear ABUs and not seniors? They can be fat and fuzzy too....

Quote from: RiverAux on July 26, 2012, 09:23:04 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on July 26, 2012, 07:14:44 PM
Personally.....my first choice would be ABUs for everyone....even the fat and fuzzies. 

If we can't do that.....ABUs for cadets....and a solid color od or gray for seniors.....point being.....everyone in the same class of membership is in the same unifrom.

Why should cadets get to wear ABUs and not seniors? They can be fat and fuzzy too....

They can be fat, but we have to be clean shaved and have haircuts. There are not too many completely fat cadets in the program.

EDIT: Not too many fat people in my neck of the woods atleast.

Quote from: AngelWings on July 26, 2012, 09:48:39 PM

Quote from: RiverAux on July 26, 2012, 09:23:04 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on July 26, 2012, 07:14:44 PM
Personally.....my first choice would be ABUs for everyone....even the fat and fuzzies. 

If we can't do that.....ABUs for cadets....and a solid color od or gray for seniors.....point being.....everyone in the same class of membership is in the same unifrom.

Why should cadets get to wear ABUs and not seniors? They can be fat and fuzzy too....

They can be fat, but we have to be clean shaved and have haircuts. There are not too many completely fat cadets in the program.

EDIT: Not too many fat people in my neck of the woods atleast.

Not too many cadets in my unit of 79 that NEED to shave!

Quote from: phirons on July 26, 2012, 06:18:50 PM
"uniformity" starting with different BDU uniforms for cadets and seniors?

True, but my view is let's get ALL seniors in the same uniform...which. speaking realistically, will mean some form of CAP distinctive.

Leave USAF style uniforms for the cadets.

Considering that our service academies cadets and midshipmen wear different uniforms from the members of their parent services, not such an odd idea (we'd just be reversing how they do it!)

Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 27, 2012, 08:45:18 PM
Considering that our service academies cadets and midshipmen wear different uniforms from the members of their parent services, not such an odd idea (we'd just be reversing how they do it!)

May need to double check that.  Every time I visted the Zoo, the cadets were wearing blues, BDUs, or ABUs.  I suppose they may have dress uniforms that differ, but as near as I can tell they spend the overwhelming percentage of their time in the same uniforms as the rest of the AF.

You're right, of course, Ned...the academies use their parent service's field uniforms for the cadets or midshipmen...it's the service and dress uniforms that are different -- which is what I'd ultimately like to see for CAP: cadets in USAF style across the board, seniors in CAP distinctive for all uses.

Probably not a popular view, but it's mine!

Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 29, 2012, 10:06:22 PM
You're right, of course, Ned...the academies use their parent service's field uniforms for the cadets or midshipmen...it's the service and dress uniforms that are different.

The only place I've seen a difference is West Point. Everywhere else, cadets and officers wear the same uniform. The only difference is insignia.

Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 29, 2012, 10:06:22 PM
...which is what I'd ultimately like to see for CAP: cadets in USAF style across the board, seniors in CAP distinctive for all uses.

Probably not a popular view, but it's mine!

It's not mine, especially not with the current crop of of CAP-distinctive uniforms.  Yech.

Why would you take away the AF uniform from us?

Quote from: cap235629 on July 25, 2012, 05:53:20 AM

Quote from: Garibaldi on July 25, 2012, 05:51:46 AM

Quote from: Bloodsky on July 25, 2012, 05:12:46 AM
BDUs are better for training cadets and outdoor use, plus BDUs are plentiful. For those who actually do some flying they can go ahead and get themselves a flight suit.

Meh...flight suits were in vogue in 1986 after Top Gun. I only see a few on the flight crews here.

usually they are only seen on new pilots until they fly their first CD flight in the Arkansas Summer....

Same here in Florida...  However, the wing is really moving toward a culture of wearing them.  They've recently been required for certain large scale exercises involving the military and other agencies.  There were people who did not go because they don't own one (and they ain't cheap!)  I've been lucky to have a few given to me by a member who works at an ANG base.  They did inventory not long ago and discarded several hundred which they gave to him to distribute to CAP members (most were new with tags, some very slightly used.)

As a PAO, I see the point of wearing them.  It helps us look the part and image goes a long ways in credibility.  That said, keep it practical.  Don't require it when it's too hot.  That's a safety issue.  At the recent exercise I mentioned above, we had a pilot pass out shortly after landing a 4 hour sortie.  He had to be transported to the hospital.  Dehydration and heat exhaustion, and looked like he'd been beat with a baseball bat where head met tarmac...  Flight suit sure didn't help him! 

Quote from: Woodsy on July 30, 2012, 12:42:56 AM

Quote from: cap235629 on July 25, 2012, 05:53:20 AM

Quote from: Garibaldi on July 25, 2012, 05:51:46 AM

Quote from: Bloodsky on July 25, 2012, 05:12:46 AM
BDUs are better for training cadets and outdoor use, plus BDUs are plentiful. For those who actually do some flying they can go ahead and get themselves a flight suit.

Meh...flight suits were in vogue in 1986 after Top Gun. I only see a few on the flight crews here.

usually they are only seen on new pilots until they fly their first CD flight in the Arkansas Summer....

Same here in Florida...  However, the wing is really moving toward a culture of wearing them.  They've recently been required for certain large scale exercises involving the military and other agencies.  There were people who did not go because they don't own one (and they ain't cheap!)  I've been lucky to have a few given to me by a member who works at an ANG base.  They did inventory not long ago and discarded several hundred which they gave to him to distribute to CAP members (most were new with tags, some very slightly used.)

As a PAO, I see the point of wearing them.  It helps us look the part and image goes a long ways in credibility.  That said, keep it practical.  Don't require it when it's too hot.  That's a safety issue.  At the recent exercise I mentioned above, we had a pilot pass out shortly after landing a 4 hour sortie.  He had to be transported to the hospital.  Dehydration and heat exhaustion, and looked like he'd been beat with a baseball bat where head met tarmac...  Flight suit sure didn't help him!

Flight suit doesn't fix stupid. If you're too dense to drink water to keep yourself hydrated, you probably shouldn't be flying an airplane either.

Quote from: PHall on July 30, 2012, 01:01:34 AMIf you're too dense to drink water to keep yourself hydrated, you probably shouldn't be flying an airplane either.

Ah!  So that's what the pilots mean when they say "density altitude"!

Quote from: CyBorg on July 29, 2012, 10:18:01 PM

Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 29, 2012, 10:06:22 PM
...which is what I'd ultimately like to see for CAP: cadets in USAF style across the board, seniors in CAP distinctive for all uses.

Probably not a popular view, but it's mine!

It's not mine, especially not with the current crop of of CAP-distinctive uniforms.  Yech.

Why would you take away the AF uniform from us?

Yeah, the CAP distinctive need some work.

The AF took away their uniforms from a significant segment of our membership, so they are the ones who caused the non-uniformity.

Quote from: davedove on July 30, 2012, 11:31:51 AM
Yeah, the CAP distinctive need some work.

The AF took away their uniforms from a significant segment of our membership, so they are the ones who caused the non-uniformity.

I have also met people in CAP who say we should not, and never should have, worn the AF uniform, period.

Their rationale?

"We're not in the Air Force and we have our own uniforms."

I wouldn't mind the CAP uniforms as bad if they just had a little bit of colour, and if they didn't only allow a blazer as a "dress uniform."

Granted, a lot of people like it because they can get the uniform parts for next to nothing and they aren't obligated to follow grooming, C&C and H/W regulations...but I just don't see the rationale for making "distinctiveness" always equal grey (there, I said it).

Quote from: jeders on July 29, 2012, 10:14:04 PM
The only place I've seen a difference is West Point. Everywhere else, cadets and officers wear the same uniform. The only difference is insignia.

The other academies do seem to mirror their parent service, except parade uniforms, which are very different.

Quote from: CyBorg on July 29, 2012, 10:18:01 PM

Quote from: ZigZag911 on July 29, 2012, 10:06:22 PM
...which is what I'd ultimately like to see for CAP: cadets in USAF style across the board, seniors in CAP distinctive for all uses.

Probably not a popular view, but it's mine!

It's not mine, especially not with the current crop of of CAP-distinctive uniforms.  Yech.

Why would you take away the AF uniform from us?

Because it is the greatest single source of division between CAP and the Air Force...too many members (some quite senior in grade or position) who do not meet the standards wear the USAF style uniform anyway.

We don't need it to do our jobs, and giving it up voluntarily would go a long way to bridging the gap between us and the USAF in general...AF members would stop viewing us as a bunch of 'wannabes' besmirching their uniform; instances of CAP seniors trolling for salutes should virtually disappear.

Look, I started as a cadet a long time ago, loved the idea of wearing AF uniform, and really do understand the position of those that want to keep it...but I think it has become a luxury CAP cannot afford for its senior members.