I have been thinking. How many units have chain of command walls? I mean acual picutres of our senior leaders? And do you all think its something neccessary to have? Every military unit I have ever been associated with wheather it be army, air force, USMC, or Navy have chain of command walls. I think its something CAP should do. I will ask cadets who their wing commander is and they have no idea. So, if he ever came to a meeting, would they recognize him? Part of the cadet program is knowing the chain of command anyway so why not put their pictures on the wall. The National Commander, Region Commander, and Wing Commander have official photos, get the Group and Squadron Commanders to take official photos and put them on the wall.
Now the question I dont know isd how far up do we nee dto know in CAP? Do we need to go up to National Commander or do we need to go all the way up to the POTUS? (thats a lot of pictures)
I've always had the sitting President, the Sec of Defense, the Sec of the Air Force and the National Commander.
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 21, 2009, 11:19:57 PM
I've always had the sitting President, the Sec of Defense, the Sec of the Air Force and the National Commander.
You skipped a lot in between there though didnt you? If you start at the POTUS you would have to go like this:
POTUS
SECDEF
SECAF
Chief of Staff AF
AETC Commander
AU Commander
CAP National Commander
Region Commander
Wing Commander
Group Commander
Squadron Cmmander
Thats 11 pictures. Ihave never sen a wall that large before
^If you're going that route, you need to add the CAP-USAF/CC
I would go from SECAF to BoG Chairman to National/CC; then down as shown. It's a more realistic chain than above. And, yes, the CAP/CC does report to the BoG.
Quote from: FW on December 21, 2009, 11:31:56 PM
^If you're going that route, you need to add the CAP-USAF/CC
I would go from SECAF to BoG Chairman to National/CC; then down as shown. It's a more realistic chain than above. And, yes, the CAP/CC does report to the BoG.
That is the more logical Chain of Command...as CAP does not report to CAP-USAF and all the rest.
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 21, 2009, 11:11:30 PM
I have been thinking. How many units have chain of command walls?
Oh, to even have a wall, a roof, a door...drool.
CAP's only chain of command stops at the BOG and has nobody beyond that.
You might put a dotted line link between SECAF and the BOG since he appoints some of the members but he doesn't command them.
I guess I am speaking mainly about cadets. CAP doesnt reprt to the CAP-USAF. They are advisors. I guess in a way the BoG is a policy maker. But I am speaking strictly chain of command.
Then stop at the National Commander.
The BOG is not sort of a policy maker, they are CAP's ultimate governing body.
I think thats a good idea.
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 21, 2009, 11:25:34 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 21, 2009, 11:19:57 PM
I've always had the sitting President, the Sec of Defense, the Sec of the Air Force and the National Commander.
You skipped a lot in between there though didnt you? If you start at the POTUS you would have to go like this:
POTUS
SECDEF
SECAF
Chief of Staff AF
AETC Commander
AU Commander
CAP National Commander
Region Commander
Wing Commander
Group Commander
Squadron Cmmander
Thats 11 pictures. Ihave never sen a wall that large before
I have seen more.
At KSWG HQ we have everyone on that list minus, of course, the Group and Squadron Commanders. But then we also have more. I don't know who but we have like 14-16 pictures up.
How do you stack them up?
And where do youhave them take their pics?
Honoring Officials at a CAP facility by displaying their portrait is not indicative of a chain of command, pe se.
You include the President because he is the Commander-in-Chief as well as Head of State. Our ties to the USAF dictate that we "honor" them by placing the proper USAF Official in the chain. The National Commander of CAP is appropriate.
The Wing and Region Commanders are also good to go on such a wall.
When I was in JROTC I updated our Chain of Command photos regularly we had 18 photos. The way that I had them stacked being that our office was large enough was from left to right my unit was army so for CAP I you could use:
POTUS,SECDEF,SECUSAF,Chief of Staff, AETC Cmdr, AU Cmdr, National Cmdr, Respective region cmdr, wind cmdr, group cmdr (if you have one), and Squadron cmdr
Quote from: JROB on December 22, 2009, 01:44:14 AM
When I was in JROTC I updated our Chain of Command photos regularly we had 18 photos. The way that I had them stacked being that our office was large enough was from left to right my unit was army so for CAP I you could use:
POTUS,SECDEF,SECUSAF,Chief of Staff, AETC Cmdr, AU Cmdr, National Cmdr, Respective region cmdr, wind cmdr, group cmdr (if you have one), and Squadron cmdr
TYou would need a long wall
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2009, 01:53:23 AM
Quote from: JROB on December 22, 2009, 01:44:14 AM
When I was in JROTC I updated our Chain of Command photos regularly we had 18 photos. The way that I had them stacked being that our office was large enough was from left to right my unit was army so for CAP I you could use:
POTUS,SECDEF,SECUSAF,Chief of Staff, AETC Cmdr, AU Cmdr, National Cmdr, Respective region cmdr, wind cmdr, group cmdr (if you have one), and Squadron cmdr
TYou would need a long wall
Or small pictures!
And I thought that I was ahead of the curve by actually having a squadron org chart posted!
We did them on 8 1/2 x 11 photo paper put in frames. We included the Senior Enlisted advisors under picture of the commander.
Quote from: JROB on December 22, 2009, 06:46:02 AM
We did them on 8 1/2 x 11 photo paper put in frames. We included the Senior Enlisted advisors under picture of the commander.
Good idea. And do you include the cadet commander? I would say since it changes so frequently not to include he cadet commander.
Back when we had a permanent (and exclusive) home, we had the pictures posted (CAP Side only) in 8x10 prints going from Left-to-right Squadron C/CC, Squadron CC, Wing CC, Region CC, National CC.
QuoteGood idea. And do you include the cadet commander? I would say since it changes so frequently not to include he cadet commander.
My cadet staff had their own wall. For my JROTC unit the Cadet staff changed every year. For CAP I think it would be a nice touch to add the Current C/CC, although as stated it would change alot.
Quote from: JROB on December 22, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
QuoteGood idea. And do you include the cadet commander? I would say since it changes so frequently not to include he cadet commander.
My cadet staff had their own wall. For my JROTC unit the Cadet staff changed every year. For CAP I think it would be a nice touch to add the Current C/CC, although as stated it would change alot.
How frequently does it change? In the last (almost) 7 years as a cadet, I've observed most terms to be longer than a year, and usually no less than 6 months. Can't be bothered to switch a picture about once a year?
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on December 22, 2009, 07:48:24 PM
Quote from: JROB on December 22, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
QuoteGood idea. And do you include the cadet commander? I would say since it changes so frequently not to include he cadet commander.
My cadet staff had their own wall. For my JROTC unit the Cadet staff changed every year. For CAP I think it would be a nice touch to add the Current C/CC, although as stated it would change alot.
How frequently does it change? In the last (almost) 7 years as a cadet, I've observed most terms to be longer than a year, and usually no less than 6 months. Can't be bothered to switch a picture about once a year?
Every Squadron is different. I know a Squadron thatchanges out cadet commanders every six monjths to geiv all cadeyts a chance. In my squadron because we have so few cadets we may change every year if then. SO there is no set standard. It just depends on the local unit.
So, where do youguys get official chain of command photos taken?
Even with 6 month rotations...I don't see why a picture cannot be taken and used.
In a perfect world, all would upload a picture to eServices and then eServices could produce a nice chart with pictures that would auto update as Duty Positions changed.
But.....alas, we are not in a perfect world and cannot even complete the photo upload wing wide.
For persons above Wing commander, I would think that we just use the pictures that are available for publication. And we have a standard frame to to fit them in. We have the people that aren't CAP in the top row then CAP National Commander down (we include the National Vice).
Chain of Leadership
Quote from: C/Command125 on December 23, 2009, 12:16:42 AM
For persons above Wing commander, I would think that we just use the pictures that are available for publication. And we have a standard frame to to fit them in. We have the people that aren't CAP in the top row then CAP National Commander down (we include the National Vice).
Good idea but why do you include the National Vice CC? He is not inthe chain of command unless the Natl CC is not able.
QuoteHow frequently does it change? In the last (almost) 7 years as a cadet, I've observed most terms to be longer than a year, and usually no less than 6 months. Can't be bothered to switch a picture about once a year?
Well this was for my High School JROTC unit. So when seniors who made up the command staff graduated The chain of command had to be redone.
QuoteSo, where do youguys get official chain of command photos taken?
We had a local photographer come and take the photos and sometimes we just did it our selves. Being that we were at a "Performing Arts" High School there was always someone that was good with a camera.
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 22, 2009, 08:04:21 PMSo, where do youguys get official chain of command photos taken?
Our Squadron PAO is a pretty good photographer, he takes pictures of all members when they join, "fixes" them with Photoshop and then we upload them to National.
With a digital camera the cost to photograph everyone in the unit is minimal.
Quote from: flyguy06 on December 23, 2009, 02:11:21 AM
Quote from: C/Command125 on December 23, 2009, 12:16:42 AM
For persons above Wing commander, I would think that we just use the pictures that are available for publication. And we have a standard frame to to fit them in. We have the people that aren't CAP in the top row then CAP National Commander down (we include the National Vice).
Good idea but why do you include the National Vice CC? He is not in the chain of command unless the Natl CC is not able.
He has visited our wing several times, so it helps to have his picture up so the cadets know who they are looking at before they get told who he is. I also think it is a way to fill up our wall.
As a Personnel Officer, I have maintained a Chain of Command Wall for my squadron for over two years. 8.5x11 document frames with portraits, titles, and names are arranged in a pyramid pattern top-to-bottom, and left-to-right; row count is 1, 3, 5, and 5 (14 total). I use MS Word to create this. See below for list of positions. Additionally, I maintain and post Organization Charts for both senior members positions and cadet positions (also using MS Word). I'm not sure how many units have a wall like this.
Like flyguy06, I also recall seeing these walls in most military HQ's. I believe it gives our CAP unit a professional military look and sends a clear message to our members and visitors that we are an organization with a military-like structure.
AIR FORCE CHAIN OF COMMAND
Commander in Chief
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Air Force
Air Force Chief of Staff
Air Education Training Command Commander
Air University Commander
CAP-USAF Commander
CAP-USAF Liaison Region Commander
CAP-USAF State Director Civil Air Patrol
CIVIL AIR PATROL CHAIN OF COMMAND
National Commander
Region Commander
Wing Commander
Group Commander
Squadron Commander
Probably need to get the Holm Center in that CAP-USAF chain of command....
I don't think it's a bad idea, but there's no way you should require it. Some squadrons do not have their own exclusive building where they could post something like this.
Quote from: davedove on December 31, 2009, 12:40:06 PM
I don't think it's a bad idea, but there's no way you should require it. Some squadrons do not have their own exclusive building where they could post something like this.
thats a good point. We used to meet inthe basemen of a church so i totally understand that. I was just saying it would be nice to have.
Quote from: JROB on December 22, 2009, 07:34:25 PM
QuoteGood idea. And do you include the cadet commander? I would say since it changes so frequently not to include he cadet commander.
My cadet staff had their own wall. For my JROTC unit the Cadet staff changed every year. For CAP I think it would be a nice touch to add the Current C/CC, although as stated it would change alot.
The difference is and it varies per CAP unit, but the CAP chain of command usually changes a lot more frequently than the JROTC chain of command.. JROTC CoC is for an entire school year. CAP cadet CoC from what I have seen are for six months