Hello Everyone;
I was just curious, there haven't been many SLS around and many Senior members are in need of them.......how can a squadron put together a SLS for the group or others? I see many seniors that have been waiting for ever for one of this been put together specially in the FL wing area. I just start back the CAP and have been assign the position of PDO Assistant, Safety officer assistant and Health Services Officer Assistant.
Jorge L, Trinidad, SM, CAP
Clearwater Composite Squadron
PD, HS, SE, AE, SER-FL-447
The curriculum is canned and actually very good, and a no-brainer to present.
All you need is permission of the Wing PDO, as the Wing CC needs to certify it, a weekend,
and a few experienced members to do the presentations.
In Michigan, PD courses are most often organized at the group level with wing approval. However, if a unit has significant need, it probably wouldn't be hard to get group to sign off on the course and let the local unit host it for convenience.
I can't really speak about how Florida does things, but I imagine it is rather similar. I would propose the idea up your chain of command and/or connect with the Group PD Officer and make an inquiry. Nobody should be waiting forever for an SLS. If all else fails they are offered online. However, I strongly recommend in-seat courses because of the valuable networking opportunities.
According to CAPR 50-17, each wing should offer at least one Squadron Leadership School per year. I have heard of online SLS classes in your wing, but I can't verify that from personal knowledge. Contact your wing PDO and ask. If your wing doesn't offer one in the near future, you can always visit another state. As Eclipse and mwewing noted, you can also try to get one going in your squadron. As an Assistant PDO, you can take a leadership roll and help organize it! Good Luck!
Quote from: mwewing on February 03, 2014, 03:00:17 AM
If all else fails they are offered online. However, I strongly recommend in-seat courses because of the valuable networking opportunities.
Unfortunately, according to NHQ, there is about a 1.5 year wait list for the online school. Unless you really cannot get time off or what not, it is better to do the 2-3 day SLS.
My wing has been trying a hybrid online/in-person course...do multiple homework assignments and then a one day in person course. Most seem to like it because they don't necessarily need to arrange for lodging but still get the benefit of the in person networking.
1.5 year wait?
Seriously. That's just ridiculous. That could span a couple renewals for some people. Hopefully that is a semi-automated thing and when people drop, or otherwise opt to take a weekend course and have their credit posted to eServices, that it checks and removes them by CAPID.
I'm currently taking the on-line SLS but I can't comment on the quality or content - this is Day 2 of Week 1 of 8 Weeks!
That said, I am a strong supported of on-line or distance learning although the medium isn't suitable for every subject or every learner. I successfully completed a Masters degree this way when there was no other way for me to do so and similar reasons apply to my taking the on-line SLS. The in-seat classes have the priceless interaction with other people but the on-line version offers the opportunity to share and network with people from all across the CAP. "Pay your money, take your choice"!
I did get a message from NHQ when I applied that there was a 1.5 year wait but my wait time was 3 months. The course is run by Wyoming Wing and they do run more than one per year. They also run the on-line CLC (I can see the class listings in their MOODLE application although I can't access it).
My wing does run the SLS annually but demand is high; a colleague took a SLS class which was approved by the relevant Wing but it ran for only one (very long) day and purported to cover the material....buyer beware and check very carefully before you take the class that it is approved and will count. I'll spare the blushes of the Wing concerned.
My advice would be to apply for the on-line SLS, make it known to your command and Wing staff that you want to do the course and reach out to neighboring Wings (depending on the geographical proximity).
Running an SLS or CLC on a single day is a bad idea and shortchanges the students in favor of expediency.
A wing should be running them often enough and geographically located that no one feels the need to
have to drive very far, or stay over night.
"should be" and "are", are many different things. CAWG as an example, means doubling up, because of the distance covered that means a lot of territory.
OTOH, it seems that people out west don't bat an eye at driving a fair distance, compared to other locales.
Personally, if your wing has groups, I think every group should be running an SLS/CLC/TLC every year.
The SLS /CLC on a single weekend is a good fit, it maximizes your instructor pool, then have a TLC "other".
That would get most sizeable wings the opportunities they need.
No reason this needs to be a "wing" thing (other then approval).
And if your "wing doesn't have enough people who need it", then you've identified your real problem.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 04, 2014, 03:46:59 PM
Running an SLS or CLC on a single day is a bad idea and shortchanges the students in favor of expediency.
A wing should be running them often enough and geographically located that no one feels the need to
have to drive very far, or stay over night.
I agree wholeheartedly!
Quote from: a2capt on February 04, 2014, 05:11:10 PM
"should be" and "are", are many different things. CAWG as an example, means doubling up, because of the distance covered that means a lot of territory.
OTOH, it seems that people out west don't bat an eye at driving a fair distance, compared to other locales.
Politely, but I think that's unfair. You may well be right about how people view travel and distance based on where they live, and we should not expect to have everything happen in our own backyard but we're all volunteers, balancing this with other activities. Adding travel and accommodation, often not reimbursed, will tip the balance between going or not going, no matter how much someone might want to attend. The same is true when an activity requires the use of vacation or personal days - only so many to go around each year!
Also, before signing up for an on-line SLS, make sure that your Wing accepts on-line SLS. In MAWG, we have a wing-level regulations that says all SLSs must be done in-residence. It makes sense to me because of the networking and opportunities for discussion an in-residence SLS affords, but I also know that some people have crazy schedules.
That's weird, I wouldn't think a wing would be authorized to prohibit something provided by National. Makes me think of the antebellum attempts at nullification.
Quote from: UH60guy on February 04, 2014, 07:35:25 PM
That's weird, I wouldn't think a wing would be authorized to prohibit something provided by National. Makes me think of the antebellum attempts at nullification.
The online SLS wasn't intended to replace the in-face version, it's supposed to allow members with legitimate impediments to
normal participation from being defacto-barred from the activity.
I can totally understand why a wing would want to consider participation on either a per-member basis, or perhaps
require in-face participation.
Fort a number of years my wing was running 3-5 sessions of SLS/CLC per year, even some weekday sessions, so there
was really no excuse for not participating in-face. However prior to that, it could be years between them, and/or the only
one offered was 6+ hours away. Understandable if people couldn't get down there.
If I was a wing CC, running 3-5 plus sessions a year, I'd want to know exactly why a given member couldn't participate in those
classes. A big part of the SLS/CLC is the networking, and an important value of the networking is the local aspect of
meeting and working with people from your own wing.
I agree, the face-to-face has the best value, and the online should be a case-by-case basis. However, an outright ban on it sounds fishy. Meh, it could be like everything else, they'd just request a waiver and explain the hardship and could probably make it happen if they had to.
*Note, I don't know the specifics of MAWG or how frequently and where they hold SLS. But again, that's more fodder for a waiver request if a member either can't find an available class or can't make the distance.
Purely for the record: at the time I applied and was granted a place, VAWG did not have an SLS in sight and there was a backlog appearing. I don't recall the wing staff being involved in the allocation although I wasn't shy about telling people - politely - that I had applied and why. Being offered a place 10 hours driving away wasn't going to work, to be honest.
I wholeheartedly agree with the comments re networking etc and I also agree that an outright ban is "fishy".
Quote from: Eclipse on February 04, 2014, 07:40:52 PM
If I was a wing CC, running 3-5 plus sessions a year, I'd want to know exactly why a given member couldn't participate in those
classes. A big part of the SLS/CLC is the networking, and an important value of the networking is the local aspect of
meeting and working with people from your own wing.
Yep, my thought also.
In my circumstances...I do what I can to move forward and be of more value / use.
IMHO. The 1.5 year wait is to encourage people to go to face to face. I signed up for online, was told it would be around 12 to 18 months and was enrolled within 1.5 months. ;)
It was a lot more time consuming than I had planned for and bank on logging in daily.
All fair points. I am fortunate in that my employer allows me a to login at work during my lunch hour, which should help.
I think you're right about the encouragement, which is, on balance, the right direction to take. The on-line version does at least offer one more way to take the class.
I took a Masters via the on-line version and, other than not travelling to the classes which I simply could not do at the time, it took probably more time overall than the F2F, plus it lacks the interaction of in-seat training. That said...it worked, the training was good and I was very pleased with the outcome.
Quote from: BFreemanMA on February 04, 2014, 06:31:46 PM
Also, before signing up for an on-line SLS, make sure that your Wing accepts on-line SLS. In MAWG, we have a wing-level regulations that says all SLSs must be done in-residence. It makes sense to me because of the networking and opportunities for discussion an in-residence SLS affords, but I also know that some people have crazy schedules.
It sounds like your wing-level regulation may be in direct conflict with National's approved online SLS and CLC. The Wyoming Wing signs off on the completed courses AND National signs the certificates.
Thank you everyone for all the wonderful discussions, I look at the calendar of NHQ and there isn't any SLS schedule as of yet.......I will see if I can step up and contact my Wing PDO and see if there can be one arrange at Squadron for the Group. I beleive is the best to do since I am already taking my master degree online and won't help taking two classes online. Thank again everyone for all the messages!
Just FYI, that calendar is rarely updated.
You'll need to get into direct contact with your and surrounding wings to see when they are doing things.
Good Point, Thank you for the advice!
I spoke at my Squadron with my PDO and according with my Squadron PDO, I can't organize my self a SLS for our Group for some reason ........... I asked why and he say I just can't that I have to go and take it another place or online ???
Jorge L, Trinidad, SM, CAP
Clearwater Composite Squadron
PD, HS, SE, AE, SER-FL-447
Quote from: trinidadj75 on March 11, 2014, 08:57:30 PM
I spoke at my Squadron with my PDO and according with my Squadron PDO, I can't organize my self a SLS for our Group for some reason ........... I asked why and he say I just can't that I have to go and take it another place or online ???
Your squadron's PDO is misinformed. Your group can host an SLS or CLC; if they are unable - or unwilling - to host one for whatever reason then I would look at attending one at another group or at a wing professional development weekend, if it's offered. Check with your group's PDO first.
In Florida Wing, SLS and CLS are offered online with a face-to-face capstone, which lasts between 4-5 hours each. You can access the online portion here:
http://elearning.capitwg.us/ (http://elearning.capitwg.us/)
Each group in FLWG should have facilitators that can offer these classroom capstones. If you can't get an answer from your unit, you should contact your GP/PD to find out who's a facilitator in your group and/or when is the next capstone being offered. If you're attending this weekend's FLWG Conference, they're offering both SLS and CLC Capstones plus Facilitator training on Friday, 14 March. You can register here:
http://www.flwg.us/conference/preconference-professional-development-courses.aspx (http://www.flwg.us/conference/preconference-professional-development-courses.aspx)
I hope that helps.
This brings up a question: With a lot of training switching to online, and in this case online with a short in-person capstone, how can one that is working on Level IV, where it is required to be an instructor in a course that has a total contact time of 12 hours, meet that requirement if the contact time is only 4 or 5 hours?
I wonder if National is going to modify the reg.?
Quote from: tonyairplane on March 20, 2014, 02:19:24 PM
This brings up a question: With a lot of training switching to online, and in this case online with a short in-person capstone, how can one that is working on Level IV, where it is required to be an instructor in a course that has a total contact time of 12 hours, meet that requirement if the contact time is only 4 or 5 hours?
I wonder if National is going to modify the reg.?
Let's hope not, considering it's so ambiguous now as to be all but useless.
I fully agree - so how does one typically get credit for that? My Wing PDO told me that if I teach an hour or two course at an SLS or CLC, I could get credit for that requirement, as long as the course is 12 hours long. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but if that is what everyone has been doing, fine. But now the courses will not even be 12 hours, nor should they be.
Quote from: tonyairplane on March 20, 2014, 02:32:54 PM
I fully agree - so how does one typically get credit for that? My Wing PDO told me that if I teach an hour or two course at an SLS or CLC, I could get credit for that requirement, as long as the course is 12 hours long.
That's all you need.
Quote from: tonyairplane on March 20, 2014, 02:32:54 PM
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but if that is what everyone has been doing, fine. But now the courses will not even be 12 hours, nor should they be.
There is no near-term, public plan to eliminate in-face PD classes, so there will be plenty of places to complete this requirement. SLS/CLC/RSC/NSC/TLC/RST some ES academies and
pretty much anything else that has the right contact hours.
It's a relaxation of the old requirement that you had to be a course director to get credit, which held back a lot of people.
The point is that yo are involved in non-squadron training activities or some consequence so that people aren't getting their
ticket punched for unit safety briefings.
The rule still has flaws.
I had a member plan and execute a Wing-level air crew school, but it only had 8 hours contact time. No go, it didn't count.
He did a 45 minute Death By PowerPoint (not really, he's a great instructor) at SLS, and he's good to go for Level 4.
Sounds like the rule worked exactly as written.
An Aircrew school isn't Professional Development.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 20, 2014, 04:18:28 PM
Sounds like the rule worked exactly as written.
An Aircrew school isn't Professional Development.
CAPR 50-17, Attachment 3 says otherwise.
It can say whatever it wants.
Aircrew training has nothing to do with PD.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 20, 2014, 04:32:00 PM
It can say whatever it wants.
Aircrew training has nothing to do with PD.
I have to disagree.
Quote from: Dictionary.com
Definition: The advancement of skills or expertise to succeed in a particular profession, esp. through continued education.
Quote from: CAPR 50-17 para 1-1
... To accomplish its mission, CAP requires an informed, active senior membership trained in leadership, management, and functional tasks. The CAP Senior Member Professional Development Program prepares members to serve their units, their communities, and their nation.
Emphasis added.
While we generally refer to PD as the classes involved with the Senior Training Program, our own regulations and the definition of the term are more inclusive.
This is where the bad feelings, miscommunication, and general problems begin.
We all know what PD is, and we all know Es training is, for the most part there's no overlap, and
when you have to start using Dictionary.com to make the leap, you're stretching.
Some member who can't get to a Wing Conference, but will drive 25 hours to an ES conference
decides that the ES conference should "count" - it's not even a little the same thing, but
he makes noise, people are averse to saying "no", and there you have it.
Etc., etc.
50-17 doesn't say PD at all in para 6-1-f or in attachment 3. It says that a Wing training activity counts. But the course has to be 12 contact hours.
To me, it is really poorly worded.
In the graduate courses that I teach, I am required by department rules to have a minimum of 42 hours of contact time. Anyone who has put together a new class knows how much work goes into a 3 hour class, especially the first time around.
I have to agree, it is strange that going to a CLC and flipping some canned PPT slides for an hour, and then leaving somehow counts.
If someone taught twelve one hour classes, that would be indicative of some experience. Especially since some of the folks that I saw at SLS and CLC were hopefully never invited back.
Maybe the CAP rule should be reworded to be more clear?
Quote from: tonyairplane on March 20, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
In the graduate courses that I teach, I am required by department rules to have a minimum of 42 hours of contact time.
CAP is not offering graduate-level courses.
Quote from: tonyairplane on March 20, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
Anyone who has put together a new class knows how much work goes into a 3 hour class, especially the first time around.
For the most part, no one in CAP should be "putting together a new course" - everything is canned and ready for presentation.
The constant reinvention of the wheel is a big problem in CAP.
Quote from: tonyairplane on March 20, 2014, 05:17:30 PM
I have to agree, it is strange that going to a CLC and flipping some canned PPT slides for an hour, and then leaving somehow counts.
If that's what you're doing, you're doing it wrong.
..and I'm not sure how flipping slides for CLC for a couple hours counts, either. I'm not sure it was intended to, actually.