I didn't find the answer with a quick perusal of 39-1.
Which hat should seniors wear with the Class A type service coat? I presume the service cap (bus driver style) but think I have also seen the flight cap. Are both allowed?
Both are allowed, most Senior Members wear the flight cap, and for those that do have a wheel cap, they usually reserve it for
the most formal occasions.
+1
Check with your chain of command/activity coordinator to see what their standards/SOP/Policy or preferences are.
Service cap and jacket are not needed. Plus they cost lots of money.
Bonus: no jacket, no tie. ;)
Quote from: Thrashed on May 14, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
Service cap and jacket are not needed. Plus they cost lots of money.
Bonus: no jacket, no tie. ;)
The wear of a tie is not dependent on the wear of a jacket.
You can wear both.
I personnally wear the service cap (aka wheel/bus driver cap) with the service dress and a flight cap without the service dress jacket (again just my own personal preference).
Quote from: Eclipse on May 14, 2013, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on May 14, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
Service cap and jacket are not needed. Plus they cost lots of money.
Bonus: no jacket, no tie. ;)
The wear of a tie is not dependent on the wear of a jacket.
You can wear a service jacket with no tie?
Quote from: Thrashed on May 14, 2013, 09:01:18 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 14, 2013, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on May 14, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
Service cap and jacket are not needed. Plus they cost lots of money.
Bonus: no jacket, no tie. ;)
The wear of a tie is not dependent on the wear of a jacket.
You can wear a service jacket with no tie?
No, but you can wear a tie with no jacket.
Long sleeve shirts is what eclipse is talking about.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on May 14, 2013, 09:06:52 PM
Long sleeve shirts is what eclipse is talking about.
And the short sleeve shirt as well.
True, but its optional then.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 14, 2013, 09:06:50 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on May 14, 2013, 09:01:18 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 14, 2013, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on May 14, 2013, 01:35:36 PM
Service cap and jacket are not needed. Plus they cost lots of money.
Bonus: no jacket, no tie. ;)
The wear of a tie is not dependent on the wear of a jacket.
You can wear a service jacket with no tie?
No, but you can wear a tie with no jacket.
So the tie is dependant on the wear of the jacket. ;)
Quote from: Thrashed on May 15, 2013, 05:49:56 PM
So the tie is dependant on the wear of the jacket. ;)
No it's not; the tie must be worn with the long-sleeve shirt (with or without the service coat). Wearing the service coat requires long-sleeve shirt (you cannot wear a short-sleeve shirt in service dress blues). Therefore it's the long-sleeve shirt that necessitates the tie, not the jacket.
Quote from: Pylon on May 15, 2013, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on May 15, 2013, 05:49:56 PM
So the tie is dependant on the wear of the jacket. ;)
No it's not; the tie must be worn with the long-sleeve shirt (with or without the service coat). Wearing the service coat requires long-sleeve shirt (you cannot wear a short-sleeve shirt in service dress blues). Therefore it's the long-sleeve shirt that necessitates the tie, not the jacket.
Sorry that's not true. CAPM 39-1 Table 2-1 Line 2....short sleeve shirt is authorized with the New and Old Service Dress Uniform.
Who says the short sleeve cannot be worn with the Service Coat? In my 12 years in CAP, this is the first time I hear this, and have sometimes worn it that way.
However, just to be sure, let's see what 39-1 says on this issue.
Quote
Shirt (Short
Sleeve)
X X X Blue. Tie is optional unless worn with service dress uniform. Collar of shirt shows 1/4 or 1/2 inch above coat collar; with arms bent at a 90-degree angle, sleeve should barely touch or come within 1-inch of the forearm; will have tapered fit; military creases are prohibited. Sleeve crease is centered on...
Remember the X goes under other items, the first being "Service Coat!"
You may not like to wear the Short Sleeve with the coat. You may not like 39-1, but until a new 39-1 or an ICL comes out saying not to wear the Blue short sleeve shirt with service coat, and I have seen neither, you can wear the short sleeve with the service coat. In this case
you have to wear the tie.So the tie is dependent on wearing the coat or wearing the long-sleeve shirt.
Drat-Lord beat me to it, but I was not going to throw my typing away...
Flyer
Quote from: lordmonar on May 15, 2013, 06:46:30 PM
Sorry that's not true. CAPM 39-1 Table 2-1 Line 2....short sleeve shirt is authorized with the New and Old Service Dress Uniform.
My mistake. I could have sworn I remembered it being long-sleeve only. You are both correct.
Of course, totally aside from what's allowed, the propriety of wearing a short-sleeve shirt with what amounts to a suit coat is abjectly lacking.
From a question about hats to a discussion on ties/shirts in only about 4.5 replies. Probably not a CAP Talk record, but admirable alacrity!
Pylon,
I am 58 years old, and not once have I heard it is improper for gentlemen to wear short sleeve shirts with coats. Have you heard otherwise? You seem to imply it is not proper. Most of my jobs have been those that you do not have to wear coats all the time. Middle-class jobs, managers or doers. None at the executive or high-level director.
Not that I like to do it since I do not like the feel of a coat on my arms, but if I need to wear short sleeves with a coat I will do so.
Flyer
Quote from: Pylon on May 15, 2013, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 15, 2013, 06:46:30 PM
Sorry that's not true. CAPM 39-1 Table 2-1 Line 2....short sleeve shirt is authorized with the New and Old Service Dress Uniform.
My mistake. I could have sworn I remembered it being long-sleeve only. You are both correct.
Of course, totally aside from what's allowed, the propriety of wearing a short-sleeve shirt with what amounts to a suit coat is abjectly lacking.
No problem......it is a common myth even on Active Duty.
I have a thick skin (and, some would argue, a hard head). If he can dish it out, I can take it. ;D
Appropos of nothing much, I have always hated the look of a short-sleeve shirt with a tie. As in many, many things, just because you can doesn't mean you should! :D
Quote from: Pylon on May 15, 2013, 08:25:49 PM
My mistake. I could have sworn I remembered it being long-sleeve only. You are both correct.
Of course, totally aside from what's allowed, the propriety of wearing a short-sleeve shirt with what amounts to a suit coat is abjectly lacking.
I believe the Marine Corps requires a longsleeve shirt with service jacket (Service Alphas) but that's not the case with the Air Force.
It's very "Dilbert" and or NASA circa 1965.
If you've got a gut, it looks terrible.
Eclipse-
What is "Dilbert-like" or "NASA?"
Wearing a short sleeve-tie combination?
Flyer
Yes.
(http://cdn.marketingtechblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/dilbert.jpg)
(http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/vonbraun/photo/images/new-53.gif)
At least in most of these pics they are wearing the tie the proper length - the worst way to wear a
short sleeve shirt with tie is the "1-inch above" look", which accentuates your gut.
(http://mix.msfc.nasa.gov/IMAGES/HIGH/6901183.jpg)
Long sleeves with the tie at, or below the beltline tends to make the person appear taller.
If you've got nothing to "hide", well so be it, but most of the people I see on a regular basis wearing
a short-sleeved shirt with a tie have plenty to hide.
I have both a flight cap and service cap. And I wear both depending on my mood and the nice thing it can do double duty for both CAP and my day job :)