Hello All:
I am writing to throw an idea past the "blogosphere" to see if my current project would attract potential attendees. A few weeks ago, I suggested to my boss (SWR/CC) that there should be a NCSA to introduce CAP Cadets to Military Medicine. The Commander thought the idea had merit, and the SWR/CV brought the idea to the National Cadet Programs Officer and he's on board. I suggested that CAP utilize the new tri-service Medical Education and Training Campus (METC) located at Ft. Sam Houston to hold an NCSA to showcase military healthcare. The METC is the new focal point of enlisted and officer medical training for the Armed Forces. Most military healthcare training facilities have been relocated to the new campus. I have had preliminary talks with the Associate Dean of Academics and the Operations Dept. at METC and they both support the idea.
What I'm trying to ascertain is, if this became an approved NCSA, do you think it would attract many cadets?
You got me.
You also will probably get all the cadets who want to do more than first aid, don't want to go to HMRS and aren't old enough to do EMT stuff outside of CAP.
I'd be interested...
As long as there isn't even a hint that it is more than orientation, sounds like an interesting idea.
As an FYI, it generally takes several years of success before national will consider anything as an NCSA, but it doesn't have to be that to attract a national audience.
Why not put something together on a Wing or Region level, at that facility, and see what kind of response it gets?
Quote from: SarDragon on June 28, 2012, 03:45:21 AM
Why not put something together on a Wing or Region level, at that facility, and see what kind of response it gets?
^ +1
Before it can be an NCSA a curriculum needs to be developed. As Eclipse said, once the ball is rolling well for a few years, then it may be a sanctioned NCSA.
NCSAs are expensive propositions. The vast majority must be vetted as wing or region programs with a well defined curriculum before NHQ will take a look at them.
First you must deterimine the goals and objectives of the program. Is it an orientation to health care in general including the allied health professions? Or do you want it to be a specific program leading to some kind of cert? At what level do you want the students to be? Should they be able to comprehend basic A&P, chemistry, math? Remember, the NCSAs that are held on AF bases/facilities usually require the cadet to be a min. of 15 y/o. Also, will the curriculum consider the restraints of CAPR 160-1 and not lead graduates to think they are going to be allowed to do something they aren't?
I would like to see a general orientation to health care including the allied health professions. Have classes in A&P, medical terminology, psychology and show the sturdent what is required from an academic standpoint. Maybe shadow some providers although that presents some real probs in terms of HIPPA, immunizations and MTF approval. Instructors from the various fields demonstrating what their field is all about. Spend some time on the human patient simulators learnig vitals and how the body can vary in breath sounds, heart sounds, pulses etc. I see it as a chance for career exploration in both civilian and military world.
You need to get in touch with the people doing the Combat Control Orientation Course and pick their brains, as they're in the process of doing exactly what the previous four posts describe. Their website is www.capnc007.org/ccoc/usafccoc.html (http://www.capnc007.org/ccoc/usafccoc.html).
QuoteWhat I'm trying to ascertain is, if this became an approved NCSA, do you think it would attract many cadets?
There were over 100 cadets that applied to HMRS indicating the medic course as their first course choice this year (mostly NOT from PAWG)
Without getting into the debate that is brewing just below the surface on that one, I'd say that abstractly that is a good indicator that there are more than enough cadets out there that would be interested in a medical orientation NCSA.
Personally I would be on board with this idea as well. Some thoughts:
One of the complications I see (and have stumbled over myself in delusions of the same idea) is the medical field is such a huge field of differant specialties, sub specialties etc etc., how do you pick which ones to concentrate on with out making something that is just too "generic". If going the NCSA type of route, Do you cater it to cadets thal already have some sort of medical pre-requisite or do you go from scratch? Do you provide them with some sort of "training" that has a real world use.... CPR, first aid, first responder
Trying to find a balance between "show and tell" and an orientation/famiirization that keeps them engaged and particpating without being to much of a "sit-in-the-classroom-and-get-lectured" is going to be the hardest part.
Also If looking to achieve NCSA status (and support) though FSH has a tri-service facility, I would court the USAF specific world (that whole USAF AUX thing....) rather a "USAF Medical Service Orientation Course"
mk
If it were me I'd concentrate on the Aeromedical Evacuation System and how it interfaces with the National Disaster Medical System during a natural disaster e.g. large earthquake in CA.
It might even be possible to hold at three sites (west, central, & east) based upon where both Aeromedical Evacuation and Aeromedical Staging Squadrons are co-located. Pope AFB is now where all the Aero Evac technicians are trained.
There's a lot involved in the system to make it run and perhaps cadets could get a taste of being an aeromedical technician and/or a medical administrative person (operating in control center), by having 4 days of training and than on the 5th day participating in an exercise.
RM
Take a look at what the Sea Cadets are doing in this regard. They have previously had some very good programs at both Bethesda and San Diego Naval Hospitals, providing Cadets with some great real-world training and exposure.
Seeing as how I plan on entering a career in the medical field, while being an officer in the Air Force, I would be the first to sign up.
I would enjoy going to an activity as such. Recently I've been looking at HMRS's Field Medic, and NESA's First Responder Courses.
I think it would be an awesome idea. I would be down.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 28, 2012, 09:57:52 PM
If it were me I'd concentrate on the Aeromedical Evacuation System and how it interfaces with the National Disaster Medical System during a natural disaster e.g. large earthquake in CA.
It might even be possible to hold at three sites (west, central, & east) based upon where both Aeromedical Evacuation and Aeromedical Staging Squadrons are co-located. Pope AFB is now where all the Aero Evac technicians are trained.
There's a lot involved in the system to make it run and perhaps cadets could get a taste of being an aeromedical technician and/or a medical administrative person (operating in control center), by having 4 days of training and than on the 5th day participating in an exercise.
RM
I was definetely thinking that AE would be one of the areas "covered"; in the scheme of USAF deployable medical components are also the EMEDS: deployable hospital(so all specialties....RN,MD,Tech, admin, bio, pharmacy, lab etc), CASF: aeroemedical staging (same specialties). We have a training site out at Camp Bullis (part of FSH) that trains all 3 including static aircraft platforms(C130 and KC135), ambualnce and ambus, buildable tent hospitals, patient simulators, clasrooms, large open bay barracks, messhall.
just a thought
mk
In looking at concerns about content, this is what is in the works so far:
-2 Traning Phases (Combat/Emergency Medicine Phase, and Career Exploration Phase)
-1st Phase (BDU's): Learning basic Emergency and Combat Medicine techniques (Certification as National Registry of EMT's Emergency Medical Responder/68W Orientation/M9 Familiarization Fire)
-2nd Phase (Blues): Break Cadet Corps into smaller groups, rotate between different Allied Health areas at METC.
-Day 1: Inprocessing, Billeting, Classroom (Combat/Emergency Medicine)
-Day 2: Classroom (Con't)
-Day 3: Classroom (Con't)
-Day 4: FTX @ Camp Bullis
-Day 5: FTX (Con't)
-Day 6: Allied Health Career Exploration
-Day 7: Allied Health Career Exploration (Con't)
-Day 8: Allied Health Career Exploration (Con't)
-Day 9: Allied Health Career Exploration (Con't)
-Day 10: Examination, Graduation
Regarding the 68W Orientation, the draft includes a tri-service Expeditionary Medic Orientaiton, since the METC is a tri-service training facility
-US Army Combat Medic (68W)
-US Navy Fleet Marine Force Hospital Corpsman (8404)
-US Air Force Expeditionary Medic
As an AF guy supporting the USAF AUX I dont see the likelyhood of the USAF commiting any money to support a NCSA that 2/3 of its initial training curriculum is dedicated to career exploration of the other services medical mission.
2cents
mk
I understand the desire for a strictly USAF experience since we are the USAF AUX, but since METC is a fully integrated command (US Army Commandant, US Navy Vice-Commandant, US Air Force Command Chief) with mixed-service classrooms, it would be unrealistic to expect a sanitized, USAF-only experience. Instead of limiting the experience by utilizing an AF only environment, my fellow cirriculum planners and I are embracing the tri-service exposure.
While you may embrace the tri service concept you will have to convince NHQ. They expect a lot of blue in their NCSAs. Your course will have to have some academics to make it valid. Not just a lot of show and tell. And give a true view of the medical field, it isn't all about doing crics with a pocket knife and a ballpoint pen. It is a lot of hard, hard study.
Quote from: PA Guy on July 03, 2012, 05:55:52 AM
Your course will have to have some academics to make it valid.
You have a valid point, but I already addressed that concern in a previous post:
Quote from: pdjd7428 on June 29, 2012, 01:55:23 PM
-1st Phase (BDU's): Learning basic Emergency and Combat Medicine techniques (Certification as National Registry of EMT's Emergency Medical Responder/68W Orientation/M9 Familiarization Fire)
For those unfamiliar with Emergency Medical Responders (EMR's); EMR is the 1st professional level EMS certification offered by the National Registry of EMT's (NREMT). It involves a 40-60 hour classroom/hands-on course and skills testing session. Once those 2 portions are passed, a candidate can take the NREMT EMR Computer Based Test. Once the candidate passes the test, they are Nationally Certifled as an EMR and can apply to their individual states for licensure.
And about your concern about embracing the tri-service concept, with METC we don't have a choice. METC is run out of the Office of the Secretary of Defense with leadership from 4 branches of the military (USA, USAF, USCG, USN). If you have a better idea on how to get a US Army Commanding Officer and a US Navy Exexutive Officer on board with the concept, I'd be more than happy to hear it.
In my experience NHQ will want the course to be AF centric to give it NCSA status is all I'm saying.
How long do you envision the course? If your course is built around the 40-60 hr. EMR curriculum that doesn't leave much time for exploring other health/allied health professions in the typical 10 day NCSA when including inprocessing and outprocessing days. I also don't think NHQ will go for a primarily EMS course as a NCSA given CAPs aversion to providing anything beyond first aid as outlined in CAPR 160-1. Does NREMT have a min. age to take the EMR test? Many states/counties require a min. age of 18 to be cert/licensed as a EMR.
I am not knocking your idea at all, only trying to demonstrate some of the hurdles myself and others have run into trying to institute similar courses over the yrs. To ans your original question though, I think a health services course would attract more cadet applicants than you would have slots for.
An issue I see with the EMR training is creating the impression that we are a medical response agency. I see this with folks coming back from NESA ("Sure I can wear the EMT badge since I completed the EMR training at NESA and they said it's a form of EMT") and getting upset when told to leave their field hospital at home ("No. We aren't assigin these five cadets to carry your oxygen tank and surgery kit"). I shouldn't mention the hmrs medics, but they're out there as well with similar attitudes plus the usual hmrs attitude issues.
Disclosure: I'm a retired vol FF/EMT in the mountains of CO. I'm familiar with the concept of oxygen deprivation.
Quote from: arajca on July 07, 2012, 03:52:07 PM
An issue I see with the EMR training is creating the impression that we are a medical response agency. I see this with folks coming back from NESA ("Sure I can wear the EMT badge since I completed the EMR training at NESA and they said it's a form of EMT") and getting upset when told to leave their field hospital at home ("No. We aren't assigin these five cadets to carry your oxygen tank and surgery kit"). I shouldn't mention the hmrs medics, but they're out there as well with similar attitudes plus the usual hmrs attitude issues.
Disclosure: I'm a retired vol FF/EMT in the mountains of CO. I'm familiar with the concept of oxygen deprivation.
Really? Do you really have to hijack every thread into an HMRS thread? Shame on you. This is almost as bad as the "radioman" and his uniform issues.
[shaking head]
Disclosure: I'm not at HMRS this year because I'm supposed to be doing some teaching overseas in a couple of weeks. I'm a current volunteer FF/EMT-P in PA who teaches EMR, EMT, and EMT-P classes full-time.
That's not a hijack, that's a salient comment, and one I alluded to early on. He just said what many of us were thinking.
Anything characterized as an "orientation" which these types of career NCSA's are supposed to be, should not be composed with the intention
of providing any EMT / EMS, or similar certification. Both for the fact that there are better ways to do it outside CAP, and because a career orientation
activity should not a single-threaded technical training seminar.
PJOC cadets don't become PJ's, SUPT cadets aren't fighter pilots, Space Fam cadets aren't astronauts, Man & Maint Acad cadets aren't A&Ps, and a military medical academy should be a 50-k foot "show and tell" of all or most of the specialties from prevention to nuclear medicine.
Not EMT school, which would also likely stifle it from ever reaching NCSA status, since NHQ is reticent about duplicating NCSAs.
If you really want to include some medical training, provide first aid/CPR/AED followed by instructor training for those. That provides for the level of care allowed by CAP regs AND gives participants a unique skill/certification they can bring home. It also removes the "MEDIC" issue developed by other programs.
Consider adding familiarization/orientation on the back-of-the-house side of medical service. Pharmacy, admin, logistics, facilities, finance, etc.
Quote from: arajca on July 08, 2012, 03:41:55 AM
If you really want to include some medical training, provide first aid/CPR/AED followed by instructor training for those. That provides for the level of care allowed by CAP regs AND gives participants a unique skill/certification they can bring home. It also removes the "MEDIC" issue developed by other programs.
To continue this thought...
if someone complains they already have first air/cpr/aed, tough cookies, they get it again. This ensures everyone has fresh, current, and the same knowledge for the instructor course. Which should be the same system as the FA/CPR/AED course.
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on July 07, 2012, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: arajca on July 07, 2012, 03:52:07 PM
An issue I see with the EMR training is creating the impression that we are a medical response agency. I see this with folks coming back from NESA ("Sure I can wear the EMT badge since I completed the EMR training at NESA and they said it's a form of EMT") and getting upset when told to leave their field hospital at home ("No. We aren't assigin these five cadets to carry your oxygen tank and surgery kit"). I shouldn't mention the hmrs medics, but they're out there as well with similar attitudes plus the usual hmrs attitude issues.
Disclosure: I'm a retired vol FF/EMT in the mountains of CO. I'm familiar with the concept of oxygen deprivation.
Really? Do you really have to hijack every thread into an HMRS thread? Shame on you. This is almost as bad as the "radioman" and his uniform issues.
[shaking head]
If you notice, I pointed at NESA as a primary offender as well. You could probably add LESA, but I haven't met any of those folks.
Quote from: arajca on July 08, 2012, 06:11:49 PM
Quote from: arajca on July 08, 2012, 03:41:55 AM
If you really want to include some medical training, provide first aid/CPR/AED followed by instructor training for those. That provides for the level of care allowed by CAP regs AND gives participants a unique skill/certification they can bring home. It also removes the "MEDIC" issue developed by other programs.
To continue this thought...
if someone complains they already have first air/cpr/aed, tough cookies, they get it again. This ensures everyone has fresh, current, and the same knowledge for the instructor course. Which should be the same system as the FA/CPR/AED course.
No issue there - it has to be redone every 2-3 years for everyone, anyway.
It would be possible in a six day school to get cadets and seniors certified as "First Responders". It is a 40 hour course. It also teaches what a First Responder can NOT do for medical emergencies. A First Responder is just one step above Advanced First Aid. The big problem would be finding qualified certified instructors. Locally for example in the mid-sized County, there are only three and all teach at community college level so they would not be at no charge for teaching the program.
And I'm not sure if there is a minimum age limit.
Quote from: BillB on July 08, 2012, 07:10:17 PM
It would be possible in a six day school to get cadets and seniors certified as "First Responders". It is a 40 hour course. It also teaches what a First Responder can NOT do for medical emergencies. A First Responder is just one step above Advanced First Aid. The big problem would be finding qualified certified instructors. Locally for example in the mid-sized County, there are only three and all teach at community college level so they would not be at no charge for teaching the program.
Yes, but that's not "military medical career exploration" is it? That's a "first responder school", and there's no reason to do that through CAP, nor would it ever get NCSA status in and of itself.
If ou think back the "old" cadet program requyired cadets to complete a Red Cross First Aid course. Many Squadrons offer the same First Aid classes. Now I'm not saying that a First Responder school should be a National Cadet Special Activity, but rather to be offered at a Wing level or even Group level (for Wings with Groups) summer activity. As you are aware many Wings put on their own summer activity, so this would fit right in. It would provide knowledgable cadets or seniors knowing what to do and NOT do until the EMT's arrive at a plane crash or vehicle accident.
OK, I don't disagree, but I don't see what that has to do with this topic.