Integrity in Honor Guard, etc??

[Maj Ballard]

From what I have been told, National Color Guard Competition was created (among other reasons) to make it easier for smaller units and lower ranking cadets to be able to compete successfully. Drill team competition is sometimes difficult because teams tend to be dominated by officers, especially at higher competition levels. Not to mention it's extremely difficult to put together 13 dedicated cadets for DT competition, for a majority of our squadrons. When cadets have complained that you can't "do color guard" anymore when you're a CAP officer, I point out that the only stipulation is that they cannot compete on a color guard, and then challenge them to go form a drill team. I actually kind of like competition color guard being limited to Cadet Airmen and NCOs. This provides newer cadets with something that's "theirs" to take and run with... something they can accomplish as a team and put their "book work" into practice before they move on to other CAP pursuits.

With that said, I've coached/escorted two competition color guard teams. Our first year ever competing (2007), the cadets received 2nd place in FLWG, and our second year in 2008 (with 3/4 of the team brand new), we won the National Color Guard Comp. During this national title run, 3/4 of the team were also our cadet command staff (Flt Sgt, Flt CC, C/CC) in the squadron. They did an outstanding job balancing their color guard responsibilities, which often included 3x a week practices, with their responsibilities at the squadron in general. Not one of them received a test score below 92 during this time. They won the Wing Academic Bowl twice. Two of them were phase cadets of the year for the Wing.

They continued to progress rapidly in the cadet program during the 10+ months the team was together, and our cadet numbers doubled. While our team commander did have to delay his Mitchell a few weeks because of NCC, as soon as we finished competing, he promoted. Two more of them received their Mitchell Awards within the next few months, as they became eligible.

As a side note, for most teams/wings, the "cycle" isn't 10+ months like it was for us, since Florida's Wing comp is much earlier than most wings, and because we went all the way to the NCC. For most competition teams, we're only talking 4-5 months here.

I guess what I'm saying is if you have cadets who cannot handle both the responsibility of color guard and the rest of the cadet program at the same time for a few months, perhaps some thought should be given to whether they should participate in "outside activities" for a time, until they develop an understanding of what's expected. In our unit, we didn't have the problems many of you have described. YMMV.

[A.Member]

I have been told by a cadet that it is okay for cadet officers to wear cadet NCO rank while participating in Honor Guard.  (He may have also incuded Color Guard or Drill Team).  This seems contradictory to me when it comes to integrity.  Am I wrong?  Is this a common or recognized, or condoned, or standard practice?  Although I have many years in CAP, I have little experience in Honor Guard, Drill Teams, or Color Guard.  Is there a double standard for these cadets?  Am I out of line on this?  As usual, Thanks in Advance.

There definitely is some inconsistency in the regulations (in re: who can participate and who should participate).  That said, no cadet should ever be wearing an incorrect rank, especially knowingly.  You're not out of line, IMO.

Your situation may differ but what I've found is that often cadets are left to run the cadet program often with little true oversight.  Oversight occurs only at the surface levels...when you peel back the layers a bit you might find something different.  On more than one occasion it's made me question if anyone reads 52-16 anymore.   As a result, some rules seem to have gone by the wayside and others seem to have been simply made up.  On more than one occasion I've discovered things being practiced that raised similar questions (ie. where did that come from? - that doesn't seem right).  When asked about the questionable practice the response has almost always been: "That's just the way we've always done it".  And there in lies the problem.  In some cases, I have shown cadets regs that specifically prohibit them from doing some of the things I've found.  Clearly, this was news to them.

Bottom line, it's good that you're paying attention and are questioning things when they don't seem right. 

[Flying Pig]

Although I dont agree with the restriction, what I REALLY dont agree with is allowing cadets to be dishonest to get what they want.  I have heard this argument also about changing ranks.  The line I have heard is "Well, I earned C/MSgt. so its not like Im wearing a rank I didnt earn."  True.  But the spirit of the regulations prohibits cadet officers.  By swapping ranks, your simply lying.  The regulation prohibits the CADET OFFICER as a person, not the pips or diamonds themselves from participating. I agree with Neds assessment that somewhere, someone decided to follow the military tradition, and allow the opportunity for younger cadets to rise through the ranks.  Sometimes one of the hardest tests of leadership and promotion is what you are required to leave behind.  Small, seemingly harmless decisions now, may make harder, real life ones easier later on in life. I guess it requires the Cadet Officer to put aside their desires and recognize the need to move on and mentor the younger generation instead of hoarding the goods for themselves.
The ends dont justify the means as they say.  And with the goal of the cadet program being developing dynamic leaders, I dont see anything good coming from allowing cadets to swap rank on the sly.  In this case, the lie is purely for personal glory.  When this lie becomes easy, what will be next?

[pthorburn42@gmail.com]

I am a Cadet Chief soon to be switching over to Senior member and working on wing staff. I have attended the national Honor Guard Acadmey and no cadet should every wear false rank on there uniform. it is punishible by federal law. Also, it can be grounds for termination. officers cant compete on the color guard compeition at any level. anyone who says otherwise is wrong. However they can preform and go to hga!

C/Cmsgt Thorburn
First Sergeant

[Gunner C]

Learn how to abbreviate:

C/CMSgt

[raivo]

no cadet should every wear false rank on there uniform. it is punishible by federal law

Err, no...

[Rotorhead]

it is punishible by federal law.

Okay, I'll bite.

I would love to see the cite on the law that prohibits this.

[TACP]

no cadet should every wear false rank on there uniform. it is punishible by federal law. Also, it can be grounds for termination.

HAHA, that greally gave me a good laugh. Cadets are not members of the military; wearing the wrong chevron won't get them thrown in jail. If it's an intentional break of integrity it could get them thrown out of CAP, but federal law doesn't govern that. Also, IMO no C/CMSgt should be serving on wing staff.

As for the actual subject, no cadet officer should EVER be wearing a lower rank to compete. My whole team was made of C/CMSgts when we did, requiring some of us to delay our Mitchell by many months when we went to Region. It's about dedication, not taking of your pips to play enlisted again.

[Eclipse]

As for the actual subject, no cadet officer should EVER be wearing a lower rank to compete.

So no one is validating grade of the participants?

[capchiro]

Either no or it is common practice to wear lower rank.  That is my concern.

[helper]

According to CAPM 52-4 NATIONAL CADET COMPETITION, there is a distinction made between color guard & drill team that permits cadet officers to participate in the drill team but not in the color guard. Note that the competition color guard "will ideally" be airmen & NCOs.

I do not know of any requirement that a unit color guard should not include cadet officers when appearing at a non-competition public function ().

CHAPTER 2 - NATIONAL CADET COLOR GUARD COMPETITION

2-1. b. A cadet color guard team will be composed of four cadets. The team will ideally consist of two cadet airmen (the guards) and two cadet NCOs (the flag bearers). The composition of the team and positions of team members must remain constant throughout the competition. A substitution must be approved by the NCC director. Participants must be listed on the Monthly Membership Listing prior to the competition. Teams are allowed to add one alternate team member (i.e.: a fifth cadet), who must meet the criteria listed in this paragraph. The inclusion of an alternate team member is optional. Cadet officers are not permitted to participate in this competition.

CHAPTER 3 NATIONAL CADET DRILL TEAM COMPETITION

3-1. b. A cadet drill team will be composed of 13 cadets (12 team members and one team commander). Teams are allowed the option of adding one alternate team member (i.e.: a fourteenth cadet) but the composition of the team and positions of team members must remain constant throughout the competition. A substitution must be approved by the NCC Director. Participants must be listed on the current Monthly Membership Listing prior to the competition. Cadets of any rank may compete.

[MSgt Van]

"it is punishible by federal law. "

  Uh, what? Yougoddabekiddinme. 

[JoeTomasone]

"it is punishible by federal law. "

  Uh, what? Yougoddabekiddinme.

It is against Federal Law to wear the uniform or parts of it unless you are RM or belong to an auxiliary or other organization permitted by law to wear it.

Hence, someone NOT in CAP wearing Cadet chevrons technically commits a Federal offense, but your odds of getting locked up for it are minuscule, if not non-existent. 

 

[Rotorhead]

"it is punishible by federal law. "

  Uh, what? Yougoddabekiddinme.

It is against Federal Law to wear the uniform or parts of it unless you are RM or belong to an auxiliary or other organization permitted by law to wear it.

I don't buy this. Again, I'd like to see a cite of the law.

[Eclipse]

"it is punishible by federal law. "

  Uh, what? Yougoddabekiddinme.

It is against Federal Law to wear the uniform or parts of it unless you are RM or belong to an auxiliary or other organization permitted by law to wear it.

Hence, someone NOT in CAP wearing Cadet chevrons technically commits a Federal offense, but your odds of getting locked up for it are minuscule, if not non-existent. 

Hmmmm, I don't know.  I grant the point, but cadet insignia is not the insignia of a military service, its specifically an insignia of a non-profit military auxiliary - not the same thing.  The uniform itself would be the more "risky" thing to be wearing, but the cadet would be authorized for that.

Also, doesn't there have to be an intention to misrepresent as a member of the military?  That would not be the case here.

Ethics violation - absolutely.  Failure of the senior leaders to vet the teams properly, sure.  Violation of federal law?  I don't think so.

[raivo]

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=70922

Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the
Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear -
(1)
the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy,
Air Force, or Marine Corps; or
(2)
a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the
uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps

Which doesn't technically apply in this case, as CAP members are authorized by the AF to wear the AF uniform. If someone's wearing it incorrectly, that would be a CAP regulatory matter, not a violation of the law.

Conceivably, wearing the incorrect insignia might invalidate authorization to wear the AF uniform, but...

But I'm not a lawyer, don't take this as anything more than musing out loud.

[davidsinn]

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=70922

Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the
Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear -
(1)
the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy,
Air Force, or Marine Corps; or
(2)
a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the
uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps

Which doesn't technically apply in this case, as CAP members are authorized by the AF to wear the AF uniform. If someone's wearing it incorrectly, that would be a CAP regulatory matter, not a violation of the law.

Conceivably, wearing the incorrect insignia might invalidate authorization to wear the AF uniform, but...

But I'm not a lawyer, don't take this as anything more than musing out loud.

It is illegal to wear the uniform of an auxiliary (us and the coasties) just as it is illegal to wear the uniform of the military if you are not authorized. However a cadet wearing incorrect grade is technically authorized the uniform.

[RogueLeader]

"it is punishible by federal law. "

  Uh, what? Yougoddabekiddinme.

It is against Federal Law to wear the uniform or parts of it unless you are RM or belong to an auxiliary or other organization permitted by law to wear it.

I don't buy this. Again, I'd like to see a cite of the law.

It s about half way down the page of this thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4395.msg84695#msg84695

[B.Kahuna]

I'm thinking of setting term limits for the competition CG at my squadron. Is two years reasonable? And would it make sense for me to require them to promote at least every three months?
Right now I have a lot of cadets in my squadron in love with color guard and everything about it. I'm trying to make sure they appreciate how friggin cool drill team can be and make sure I don't end up with 5 year chiefs or something. I also don't want to seem like I'm stepping on their toes just to beef up my drill team.

BTW, honor guard doesn't have any grade restrictions...no real reason to fake grade.

[Eclipse]

I'm thinking of setting term limits for the competition CG at my squadron. Is two years reasonable? And would it make sense for me to require them to promote at least every three months?

If you have a lot interested, I'd say field a new team each year, as to progression, yes, that's a good idea (its required after 6 anyway).