Parade Rest Vs At Ease

[RC1488]

This may be a silly question, but here goes.

Has the Parade Rest position changed since the publishing of AFMAN36-2203? A cadet has claimed that it has and that the Parade Rest outlined in the manual is the new At Ease. He said this was true at the AF Academy and at NYW Encampment.

I was taught At Ease was this:
http://www.ng.mil/news/archives/2009/05/images/050409-Range-full.jpg

Although not pictured in the AFMAN36, this was the traditional position for its comfort yet still kept uniformity in the flight.  The cadet claims that this position pictured above is now Parade Rest.

So...which is what?  Is the link to the picture At ease or Parade Rest?

Posts merged - MIKE

[JayT]

Has the Parade Rest position changed since the publishing of AFMAN36-2203?

I was taught At Ease was this:
http://www.ng.mil/news/archives/2009/05/images/050409-Range-full.jpg

Although not pictured in the AFMAN36, this was the traditional position for its comfort yet still kept uniformity in the flight.  The cadet claims that this position pictured above is now Parade Rest.

Is the link to the picture At ease or Parade Rest?

Could be either. Parade Rest is a modified version of Attention. 'At Ease' simply requires that your right foot stay in the same spot and you don't talk.

Sounds like another little encampment myth.

[DakRadz]

Also, that picture shows Army uniforms- even if they are JROTC, whatever, USAF and by extension CAP do not perform Parade Rest in that manner. So the link is invalid to our program.

At Ease means that your right foot stays in the same place, nothing more or less. That's what I was taught by my USAF retired instructors in my JROTC class.

Parade Rest is hard to explain- the USAF version is not the same as Army-Navy-Marine Corps.

Hands behind your back, arms straight down your sides- basically your hands will be on your rear-end.

[TCMajor]

In the Air Force "Parade Rest" seems like a more strict "At Ease", wheras the Army it is a less strict position of "Attention".    It is designed to be used as the name suggests during reviews so that the soldiers do not have to stand at "Attention" while the dignitaries are talking (which can take a very long time).  Also, at least in the Army drill manual, you must go to "Parade Rest" from "At Ease" prior to going to "Attention".  The motion is automatic upon hearing the prepatory command from the element leader. In the Army "Rest" is the only position that truely allows you to move any part of your body. Lets not forget the ever popular command "Stand at Ease"  which is "Parade Rest" that allows you to follow the speaker with your eyes and head.  The bottom line is stay away from non Air Force drill manuals because they will only confuse the issue.  After 22-years of Army drill, I am having to adjust to many changes.  It almost seems like when the Air Force split off from the Army they said "Lets be as different from the Army in every way possible."

[MSgt Van]

Not to be confused with "Rest".

[lordmonar]

I, no kidding, just had a similar conversation today with one of my cadets.

We are holding a pre encampment day....

Anyway...she teaches them parade rest...okay....then she teaches them at ease....and she tells them that their hands must behind their back (ala parade rest).

I ask her way...and she says it looks more professional.

I then have to spend 30 minutes explaining that at east is not supposed to look professional...it is supposed to be comfortable.  It is to keep the cadets in place and quite.   If you want them to look "professional" then put them at parade rest.

"but then they can't look around while I am instructing them", says she.

"then put them at ease" says I.

It has been that way since the begining of time...and is true today....and yet people will still make stuff up.

[NIN]

<snip>
Anyway...she teaches them parade rest...okay....then she teaches them at ease....and she tells them that their hands must behind their back (ala parade rest).

I ask her way...and she says it looks more professional.

I then have to spend 30 minutes explaining that at east is not supposed to look professional...it is supposed to be comfortable.  It is to keep the cadets in place and quite.   If you want them to look "professional" then put them at parade rest.

"but then they can't look around while I am instructing them", says she.

"then put them at ease" says I.

It has been that way since the begining of time...and is true today....and yet people will still make stuff up.

Yep. 

Many years ago, after I'd become a professional solider and then came back into CAP as a senior, I was working with some cadets about commands.

They kept saying "At.. EASE!" (preparatory command of "At," command of execution of "Ease!") instead of using the "combined command" of "AT EASE". 

After trying to explain combined commands to them (the drill manual doesn't do a good job of explaining it, really, and unless you've actually seen it done, its hard to correlate), I finally said "Wait, whats the purpose of using a preparatory command and a command of execution?"

"Oh, sir, thats to ensure that the cadets perform the movement in sync with snap and precision."

"And the position 'At Ease' is what kind of a position?"

"Its a rest position, sir!"

"So, let me get this straight: You want your people to relax with precision?"

They all looked at each other a little dumbfounded for a second, and then they got what I meant.

[TCMajor]

NIN,

  I just picked myself off the floor from laughing so hard.  I can actually visualize that conversation, been there many times.  I also love using "asking questions" to assist the cadets in arriving at the correct answer on their own. 

[tsrup]

'At Ease' simply requires that your right foot stay in the same spot and you don't talk.

This is "Rest" not "At Ease"

[RC1488]

Hmmm so I suppose I should be more specific.

The picture is purely for showing the position...please disregard the uniform, location, or main website its from.  I am not questioning what details belong to each (ie. parade rest = no movement, at ease = movement no talking...etc), as this is all outlined in the AFMAN.

The all around question is this:
Is the position of Parade Rest in CAP any different then the picture shown in the AFMAN36.

BTW Thanks for all the insight

[cap235629]

'At Ease' simply requires that your right foot stay in the same spot and you don't talk.

This is "Rest" not "At Ease"

Ah, no.  When at rest talking is allowed.

[davidsinn]

'At Ease' simply requires that your right foot stay in the same spot and you don't talk.

This is "Rest" not "At Ease"

Ah, no.  When at rest talking is allowed.

Correct. The only difference between the two is rest allows talking.

[davidsinn]

The all around question is this:
Is the position of Parade Rest in CAP any different then the picture shown in the AFMAN36.

No difference because we use that manual as our drill manual.

[RC1488]

The all around question is this:
Is the position of Parade Rest in CAP any different then the picture shown in the AFMAN36.

No difference because we use that manual as our drill manual.

Fantastic.  That's what I was looking for.  Thanks

[tsrup]

'At Ease' simply requires that your right foot stay in the same spot and you don't talk.

This is "Rest" not "At Ease"

Ah, no.  When at rest talking is allowed.

Correct. The only difference between the two is rest allows talking.

Actually I will admit being wrong in this instance. 
as per:
http://www.uc.edu/afrotc/documents/AFMAN%2036-2203.pdf

follow this ^^ the appropriate segment is under the the "3."..  under "rest positions".  As stated before me and corrected from my stance.  The AFAM lines out the difference between "At Ease" and "Rest" that moderate talking is allowed (at "Rest"). 



too many different drill manuals in the head.

[NIN]

Let me know when you guys want to start in on "faces in marching" and where the AFMAN is edited poorly.

[TCMajor]

let's just say I had to hit the AF drill manual right after I saw my first Cadet in ranks inspection take place.  I saw some interesting things happen, but needed to make sure where the differences between the Army and Air Force manuals existed.  Indeed they do and in some instances they are vast!  In the end there are so many differences I had to try and erase the Army drill manual from my mind.  I still interchange platoon and flight, squadron and company, and several other things when I am explaining stuff to cadets.  Some day I will get it straight.  I am getting better though.  There are some very good videos on the cadet side of the national website that seem to be done by AF Drill Instructors at Basic Training.  I recommend going there if the manual does not get to the point well enough.  They sure helped me understand some items better. 

[lordmonar]

I judged at a regional JROTC drill comp a few years back.

I had to bone up on the differences.

For the most part every thing is the same.

Major differences:

Army Windows at parade rest.
Army does open ranks very differently (4th squad takes two steps back!).

Those are the only two I recall that stood out in my mind.   Can any one think of any more?

[TCMajor]

One that comes to mind is the command to reverse direction.  Air Force "To the Rear March"  Army "Rear March"  first time i heard the cadets say to the rear I had horrible memories of 3ID NCO academy and my Senior TAC NCO pracitically beating the "To The" out of us.   Yes, and opening and closing ranks caught me off gaurd also.  When the Army platoon closes ranks it is in the same location that it started, wheras the Air Force flight is standing two paces closer to the guidon(if there is one).  Which in my mind kinda throws the distances all out of whack.  There are also differences in how the command attention is given, subtle but significant to the ear.  We had a saying "there are no tin-huts in the Army".  There are other areas, such as where the inspecting officer and the flight leader exchange information after the inspection, but I think I will end it with that.  None of it is wrong, but the key is that those of us that come from different services need to bone up on the AF way before providing guidance to cadets.   

[Ozzy]

I judged at a regional JROTC drill comp a few years back.

I had to bone up on the differences.

For the most part every thing is the same.

Major differences:

Army Windows at parade rest.
Army does open ranks very differently (4th squad takes two steps back!).

Those are the only two I recall that stood out in my mind.   Can any one think of any more?

Army calls pretty much all of their commands on the left foot... When doing columns, the Army keeps people marching at full steps rather then half steps until Forward March is called...  A lot of changes with Color Guard movements... I think the Army still has obliques while the AF got rid of them years ago... Does differences in calling commands count too? (Like Army says At-ten-Chun! vs. Ten-hut)

[SarDragon]

If you call any right-turning movement on the left foot, you're gonna get a mess.

[Spaceman3750]

IIRC, you call directional movements on the foot you're moving in. For example, "Column right, MARCH" would be.

-Right- Column Right
-Left-
-Right- MARCH
-Left- Pivot right

But it's also been a long time since I did drill.

[SarDragon]

That is exactly correct.

[vorter]

Who knows where to buy the Learn 2 Lead textbook.
It was supposed to be released July 1st on Vanguard but I cant find it.

[NIN]

Army calls pretty much all of their commands on the left foot... When doing columns, the Army keeps people marching at full steps rather then half steps until Forward March is called...  A lot of changes with Color Guard movements... I think the Army still has obliques while the AF got rid of them years ago... Does differences in calling commands count too? (Like Army says At-ten-Chun! vs. Ten-hut)

I neglected to reply to this one, but since I'm back from Annual Training and spent an inordinate amount of time with my nose in FM 3-21.5 teaching D&C, it leaps out at me..

(Note: I've spent too many years on the AF side of D&C, and every year when I teach Army D&C at AT, I remember more and more things and don't accidentally try to "Air Force-itize" things<GRIN>  This year was probably one of my best yet for doing it right all the time.  Only spent 14 years in an Army uniform, you'd think I'd get it right by now, huh?)

The Army doesn't really specifically call many more commands on the left foot than the right than the Air Force does.  I'd say 98% of the commands that the Army & the Air Force share are given on the same foot between services.

Also, the Army doesn't call a 'Forward, MARCH" after a column.  The Army does the "swinging gate" sort of thing (instead of the AF's "45-step-45" or "45-step-step-step-45" type of column) and when the members of a rank are "online" following the turns, they step off without continuing half step...

I kept having to remember to say "Aten-shun" not "Ten-hut.."

[DC]

Who knows where to buy the Learn 2 Lead textbook.
It was supposed to be released July 1st on Vanguard but I cant find it.

It is supposed to be available shortly, there have been some delays with the printing, or so I've heard.

It is also available for free download here.


Out of curiosity, does this have anything to do with Parade Rest vs. At Ease?

[davidsinn]

The Army does the "swinging gate" sort of thing (instead of the AF's "45-step-45" or "45-step-step-step-45" type of column) and when the members of a rank are "online" following the turns, they step off without continuing half step...

So they march like a marching band?

[SarDragon]

Also, the Army doesn't call a 'Forward, MARCH" after a column.  The Army does the "swinging gate" sort of thing (instead of the AF's "45-step-45" or "45-step-step-step-45" type of column) and when the members of a rank are "online" following the turns, they step off without continuing half step...

The Canoe Club calls the "45-step-45" thing a column movement, and the "swinging gate" thing a turn. We used turns almost exclusively in boot camp.