NCSA = National Cadet Special Activity

Consult CAPR 50-16 for more info.

Thanks Sar

Quote from: coolkites on August 22, 2009, 01:24:47 AMSorry but what is NCSA?

http://ncsas.com/

Is this training open to cadets from outside Nevada?

Quote from: Airrace on August 22, 2009, 03:27:52 PM
Is this training open to cadets from outside Nevada?

I'm pretty sure, otherwise I don't think they would be advertising it on the national website.

This is a wonderful activity.

But just to avoid any confusion, it is not a National Cadet Special Activity. 

At least not yet.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Advisor

Quote from: Ned on August 22, 2009, 10:56:59 PM
This is a wonderful activity.

But just to avoid any confusion, it is not a National Cadet Special Activity. 

At least not yet.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Advisor

So does that mean that since I have not attended an encampment I could still go? (mine got cancelled because of lack of cadets (ORWG)

Quote from: DC on August 22, 2009, 03:34:01 AM
http://ncsas.com/

MORE domains?  I think that I am going to be ill. 

Quote from: coolkites on August 23, 2009, 01:24:19 AM

Quote from: Ned on August 22, 2009, 10:56:59 PM
This is a wonderful activity.

But just to avoid any confusion, it is not a National Cadet Special Activity. 

At least not yet.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Advisor

So does that mean that since I have not attended an encampment I could still go? (mine got cancelled because of lack of cadets (ORWG)

No.

In talking to Maj Ford this DOES NOT count as and encampment nor does it count as a NSCA.  They want to treat it like a NCSA so you have to have been to an encampment to go.

Quote from: lordmonar on August 21, 2009, 11:51:18 PM
They have been kicking this sort of idea around for a while.

HQ has been looking for some NCSA's that they can run during the "off season".  They almost had this one last December but it fell through at the last moment.

Even now it is only a test program.  If it goes well it may become a standard NCSA.

Is Arny going to cover this for Capnews?

Quote from: Flying Pig on August 21, 2009, 11:40:08 PM
I dont have an issue with the course. I think SF is a very popular career field.  Many cadets have an interest in Law Enforcement.  However, I did note the price.  $400.  Holy COW!!!  Why so much?  Our encampment out here in CA is only $150.

That cost looks high to me.  I'd like to see the breakdown of the costs.  Also do they really need a week of this?  Looks to me like this could be compressed into a 2 to 3 day type activity to further cut the costs.

Also with these type of familiarization courses, IMHO could easily be conducted on a regional basis to reduce travel costs/time.  Perhaps CAP National Headquarters in conjunction with the CAP-USAF Hq staff could come up with a good schedule for these type of activities.

Some examples I would like to see:
Emergency & Rehabilitative Medicine
Field Radio Communications
Aircraft & Structure Firefighting Response & Fire Prevention
Military Aircraft Maintenance
Air Traffic Control, Airfield Management, & Weather 
RM 

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 23, 2009, 06:53:44 PMThat cost looks high to me.  I'd like to see the breakdown of the costs.

Compared to most youth camps the cost is very reasonable.

And rather than anonymously sharpshooting the activity director and volunteers here on the internet based on speculation, perhaps you'd like to get in contact with them.

Especially since they aren't here on the board to defend themselves.

Quote
Also do they really need a week of this?  Looks to me like this could be compressed into a 2 to 3 day type activity to further cut the costs.

Undoubtedly.  They could also just put the whole course onto a couple of PowerPoint slides that the cadets could review from home.  Think of the cost savings!

Quote

Also with these type of familiarization courses, IMHO could easily be conducted on a regional basis to reduce travel costs/time.  Perhaps CAP National Headquarters in conjunction with the CAP-USAF Hq staff could come up with a good schedule for these type of activities.

Some examples I would like to see:
Emergency & Rehabilitative Medicine
Field Radio Communications
Aircraft & Structure Firefighting Response & Fire Prevention
Military Aircraft Maintenance
Air Traffic Control, Airfield Management, & Weather 
RM

Remember, "Cop Camp"   is not a NHQ activity.

But these are certainly good ideas that would make wonderful national or regional activities.

However, we are not short of good ideas at NHQ.  We are short of dedicated seniors who can take good ideas and develop and successfully implement good activities.

Volunteer through your chain of command.  Curt and I are desparate for good activity directors.


BTW, what we are not short of are folks who make great suggestions and then complain about the current slate of activities offered by wings, regions, and NHQ.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Advisor.

$400!?!  Holy H-e-double hocky pucks!  I remember attending a weeklong Law Enforcement Explorer conference at Vandenburg AFB for $50 or so.  Granted it was 1983, but still. 

Neat idea, but the cost...

Fore those interested in Security Forces, it might be interesting to connect with LE Explorers or Venturing (what ever it's called now).  If we can be cross-chartered as Venturing posts, drink from their pool of opportunity.

Quote from: wuzafuzz on August 24, 2009, 01:58:20 AM
$400!?!  Holy H-e-double hocky pucks!  I remember attending a weeklong Law Enforcement Explorer conference at Vandenburg AFB for $50 or so.  Granted it was 1983, but still. 

Neat idea, but the cost...

Fore those interested in Security Forces, it might be interesting to connect with LE Explorers or Venturing (what ever it's called now).  If we can be cross-chartered as Venturing posts, drink from their pool of opportunity.

You would be surprised to see what a week in billeting costs these days. It's not like Nellis has an open bay barracks they could stick them into.

Quote from: PHall on August 24, 2009, 03:16:23 AM

Quote from: wuzafuzz on August 24, 2009, 01:58:20 AM
$400!?!  Holy H-e-double hocky pucks!  I remember attending a weeklong Law Enforcement Explorer conference at Vandenburg AFB for $50 or so.  Granted it was 1983, but still. 

Neat idea, but the cost...

Fore those interested in Security Forces, it might be interesting to connect with LE Explorers or Venturing (what ever it's called now).  If we can be cross-chartered as Venturing posts, drink from their pool of opportunity.

You would be surprised to see what a week in billeting costs these days. It's not like Nellis has an open bay barracks they could stick them into.

$34.75 and they do not give us a discount because of CAP.
So that makes  $241.50 of the fee just lodging.

Quote from: JC004 on August 23, 2009, 01:33:03 AM

Quote from: DC on August 22, 2009, 03:34:01 AM
http://ncsas.com/

MORE domains?  I think that I am going to be ill.

I know, it kills me too...

Ned responded:

Quote
Also do they really need a week of this?  Looks to me like this could be compressed into a 2 to 3 day type activity to further cut the costs.

Undoubtedly.  They could also just put the whole course onto a couple of PowerPoint slides that the cadets could review from home.  Think of the cost savings!

Quote
Well compressing courses & maximizing the time available (cadets up at 0600 hrs, bed 2200 hrs) may yield a short time period for a particular activity & could reduce costs.

However, we are not short of good ideas at NHQ.  We are short of dedicated seniors who can take good ideas and develop and successfully implement good activities.

BTW, what we are not short of are folks who make great suggestions and then complain about the current slate of activities offered by wings, regions, and NHQ.

Volunteer through your chain of command.  Curt and I are desparate for good activity directors.

Perhaps as a separate thread you might want to discuss what kind of time commitments it takes to plan & implement these type of activities.   Many of us (senior members) have limited vacation time, other family responsibilities, other hobby interests, as well as increasing workplace requirements, and just can't get away for a complete 5 day weekdays, but might be able to make something work Thursday/Friday/Saturday, leave 12 noon Sunday type activity.   

I also get the perception that the mind set in CAP from the top isn't what you do right (on these types of activities) but what you do (or went) wrong, especially regarding cadet safety.  IF something happens (and none of us want anything to happen), than all hell breaks loose against the senior members involved in that cadet activity.  So until this perception goes away,  IMHO it's doubtful that there will a large pool of volunteers willing to undertake these type of cadet activities.   
RM

I am with RADIOMAN on this one..

You get what you pay for on this forum.

Short of folks?  Complaining of current activities offered?  Define the time commitments. Define ahead of time what needs to be done through the various Wings. Maybe check on those retired folks who could put in more time.  You got me RTFN FOR 30 DAYS. NHQ PAYS  for me to get there. Pay my per diem, according to the GTR's. I am laid off looking for work in the meantime and trying to get MP done this next two weeks.  DEFINE what you need done.  Go through the chain of command?  Define the need DOWN through the chain, get a cattle call.  Check thru the Wing administrators who is retired, laid off.  Why is when NHQ calls, "go through your chain of command."  Do that enough in my current Wing on occasions for flight training done and NOT even the respect of a return phone call.

Us "volunteers" in the field do not have the luxury of taking 5 days off in a row to play "CAP Officer"

AND yes .......every time something that does go wrong in the field, there's the "punishment" of online course that crop up every time some thing breaks.  How about sponsoring a REAL SAFETY Course put on by OSHA or the Army or AF and NHQ pays, huh???

Want volunteers??  You really do have our emails  don't you?  TRY it and find out.  Sweeten that CAP pot of dough and teach us what you want done and PROPERLY!!!

Likewise National Staff College should be rotated OUT OF Maxwell and have a traveling show like FEMA and the others that put on training.  It is time for CAP NHQ to GET out in the field amongst those they "administrate."

Spread all those

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 24, 2009, 10:30:04 PMI also get the perception that the mind set in CAP from the top isn't what you do right (on these types of activities) but what you do (or went) wrong, especially regarding cadet safety.  IF something happens (and none of us want anything to happen), than all hell breaks loose against the senior members involved in that cadet activity.  So until this perception goes away,  IMHO it's doubtful that there will a large pool of volunteers willing to undertake these type of cadet activities.   RM

Well, in CAP we are all acountable for our actions - good or bad.

I have personally approved dozens of CAP decorations for seniors involved in NCSAs in the summer of 2009.

And we are always looking at actions to improve training and safety for all of our participants to minimize avoidable problems.

I certainly understand and truly appreciate the very real sacrifices of our dedicated CP seniors who take a week or more of vacation to support things like NCSAs and encampments.

But I'd go a little further and suggest that threads like this with people publicly and anonymously criticizing volunteer leaders by claiming that an activity is "too long" or "too expensive" and who have not even bothered to look at the training schedule or cost breakdowns also tend to discourage folks from getting involved.

Don't you agree?

Quote(. . .)Short of folks?  (. . .) Define ahead of time what needs to be done through the various Wings. (. . .) NHQ PAYS  for me to get there. Pay my per diem, according to the GTR's.  (. . .)  Go through the chain of command?  Define the need DOWN through the chain, get a cattle call. 
(. . .)

Us "volunteers" in the field do not have the luxury of taking 5 days off in a row to play "CAP Officer"

Want volunteers??  You really do have our emails  don't you?  TRY it and find out.  Sweeten that CAP pot of dough and teach us what you want done and PROPERLY!!!

Likewise National Staff College should be rotated OUT OF Maxwell and have a traveling show like FEMA and the others that put on training.  It is time for CAP NHQ to GET out in the field amongst those they "administrate."

Spread all those

Interesting.

Let me start with the good news.  We publicize every single NCSA on the website and through the Volunteer.  Including dates, costs, locations, etc.  We have an application cycle that cranks up in the fall.

As a former wing DCP, I can assure you that wing encampments are similarly widely publicized, including dates and costs.

Solicitations are hard to avoid, really.

Next, l'm afraid that none of us get per diem or any costs covered for these kind of CAP activities.  I'm afraid that is a luxury that we are simply unable to afford.  And frankly, I'm not sure I want some cadet's dues or activity fees subsidizing my meals.

Third, are you really saying you would like me to spam you and all of the other seniors with faux-personal invitations to come help out at NCSAs and encampments?  I would have guessed that most members did not want me to fill their inboxes with that kind of thing, but maybe I was wrong.

Fourth, the reason that NSC is at Maxwell is that they use many of the professional full-time faculty of the Air University who graciously donate their time and services.  If we moved it around the country, we would vastly increase the costs to supply the first-rate instruction provided.

If you took a serious look at FEMA's budget, I suspect you might find that it is a little . . . larger than ours.

Finally, it is worth remembering that it is our volunteer leaders who set policy, not the Corporate Team members at Maxwell.  And every one of our volunteer leaders started out as a squadron member like you and me.  I worked in the field as a squadron guy for over 30 years before I was transferred to a higher headquarters.

I'm sorry you think we have to "sweeten the dough" to get you to volunteer.  Perhaps your situation will change in the future.

Ned Lee

Quote from: heliodoc on August 24, 2009, 10:46:46 PM
Why is when NHQ calls, "go through your chain of command."  Do that enough in my current Wing on occasions for flight training done and NOT even the respect of a return phone call.

I concur.  I'm pretty sure there's no way to quantify this, but there's enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that communication sent "up the chain" sometimes gets lost before reaching its intended destination.  IMHO, if NHQ sends out an "all call" they should have a means to collect the responses directly.