http://level2.cap.gov/documents/CPFT_Policy_Letter_Feb_2005.pdf
Basically, you must complete the mile run or shuttle, and pass 2 of the other 3 events.
your comments?
Hooray for lowering the standards. >:(
Well, at least National fessed up and actually made it official. And the NB can reverse it at the fal NB meeting.
I guess it is somewhat hypocritical on my part to say this since as a cadet I was classified as Fitness Category III under the previous CPFT requirements, but I view this as lowering the standard and I was disappointed to see this "Emergency Change" to the testing requirements finally made public. It's a step backward for the Cadet Program in my opinion.
Prior to this change the CPFT was hard for many to pass when administered properly, much harder than the previous CPFT requirements and many failed and did not complete requirements for promotion... This is a bad thing? To me this means that the test was working. Now every squadron might as well have boxes with achievement ribbons and grade insignia in them with signs that read: "Free Take One." :'(
IMO... The test was doing what it was supposed to do... Maybe it needs some minor tweaking but, If you had a medical condition that prevented you from completing one or more or all of the events you could get a medical wavier from your doctor... Take a copy of CAPP 52-18 with you for the doctor to evaluate. Doc won't sign off on the waiver 'cause he/she finds no reason why you can't pass then suck it up and drive on.
JMHO.
I made this plea on Cadetstuff, and I want to make it here. All I hear about this change is that it's a lowering of the standards. I agree.
To the best of my knowledge, National CC did this on the recommendation of the NCAC. If this is indeed the case, I encourage you all to go to your CAC's. Tell them that you don't believe in this change, that you think that this is a step backward. Encourage them to write a letter to the NCAC, telling them they not all cadets believe in this is a good thing. Heck, write a letter to the Wing DCP and Wing/CC.
Write a letter to anyone who will listen (and won't end up with you skipping the chain). Let's get our butts in gear. We still have the chance to convince the NB to change the ruling.
YMMV.
Most cadets will probably favor the changes and will work less for their promotions. Hopefully this will be overturned in the future. I really do not see the CAC as a way to solve this.
I disagree that the PT test change was a step backward. The PT test that was used was the President Council on Physical Fitness program designed for middle school students. It was not designed for older people meaning 16-21 years of age. If you look at the failure rate for the Spaatz for example, you'll find that older males had a fairly high failure rate in the sit and reach. Why? Because male growth patterns of arms and legs produces a negative effect for the sit and reach. Physiology changes with age. Cadet X may be able to do the sit and reach when he's 15, but at age 20, he will not be able to even match the reach he could at 15. Older females on the other hand have problems with pushups. So it appears that National took into consideration the fact that the PT program was not designed for CAP cadets. They retained the mile run, but allowed leeway on the rest of the test.
I Agree 100% that this is a step backward for the Cadet Program. We do not want to get lazier. Enough said.
C/ TSgt. Richard Merz
First Sergeant, Sheboygan Composite Squadron
GLR-WI
I'm with BillB.
Aside from what he mentioned, the data used to set these standards was gathered in the 1980s. We have Cadets these days who were not even born then. (Yeah, that makes me feel old, too...) It doesn't take an anthropologist to realize that the level of activity in American youth has dropped dramatically in the past twenty years. I'd say it's time for some new data, if nothing else.
Honestly, I respect the higher-ups for making this change. Leaders are tasked with setting standards, and since nobody is perfect, sometimes those standards are set unrealistically high. While I don't have trouble passing the CPFT, the Cadet Programs Committee and the National Cadet Advisory Council did a heck of a lot more research on this topic than I have, and this was the solution they came up with to the problem that they found.
It takes a strong leader to admit that his/her original expectations were too high, and then to take measures to fix it.
As always, your mileage may vary.
We had our first PT test last night under the new guidelines.
25 cadets present.
22 passed.
Of which I think 19 passed on the old standards, and 3 more passed on behalf of the new standards.
Quote from: Briski on March 19, 2005, 05:45:03 AM
I'm with BillB.
Aside from what he mentioned, the data used to set these standards was gathered in the 1980s. We have Cadets these days who were not even born then. (Yeah, that makes me feel old, too...) It doesn't take an anthropologist to realize that the level of activity in American youth has dropped dramatically in the past twenty years. I'd say it's time for some new data, if nothing else.
Honestly, I respect the higher-ups for making this change. Leaders are tasked with setting standards, and since nobody is perfect, sometimes those standards are set unrealistically high. While I don't have trouble passing the CPFT, the Cadet Programs Committee and the National Cadet Advisory Council did a heck of a lot more research on this topic than I have, and this was the solution they came up with to the problem that they found.
It takes a strong leader to admit that his/her original expectations were too high, and then to take measures to fix it.
As always, your mileage may vary.
This is actually one of the cases that I do disagree with Ms. Briski. I still believe that we've lowered the standards. Solve the problem. If the problem is non-current data,
get current data. It's easy to say "Oh, well we can fix this problem by saying they don't have to pass one part of the test." It's a lot harder to have the correct standards. This isn't the solution, it's just an extenuation of the problem.
Quote from: Yoda on March 31, 2005, 01:10:52 PM
Quote from: Briski on March 19, 2005, 05:45:03 AM
I'm with BillB.
Aside from what he mentioned, the data used to set these standards was gathered in the 1980s. We have Cadets these days who were not even born then. (Yeah, that makes me feel old, too...) It doesn't take an anthropologist to realize that the level of activity in American youth has dropped dramatically in the past twenty years. I'd say it's time for some new data, if nothing else.
Honestly, I respect the higher-ups for making this change. Leaders are tasked with setting standards, and since nobody is perfect, sometimes those standards are set unrealistically high. While I don't have trouble passing the CPFT, the Cadet Programs Committee and the National Cadet Advisory Council did a heck of a lot more research on this topic than I have, and this was the solution they came up with to the problem that they found.
It takes a strong leader to admit that his/her original expectations were too high, and then to take measures to fix it.
As always, your mileage may vary.
This is actually one of the cases that I do disagree with Ms. Briski. I still believe that we've lowered the standards. Solve the problem. If the problem is non-current data, get current data. It's easy to say "Oh, well we can fix this problem by saying they don't have to pass one part of the test." It's a lot harder to have the correct standards. This isn't the solution, it's just an extenuation of the problem.
I totally agree with you Fenner and all of you that said it was a step backwards. This is not fixing the problem. it is just going to make it worse. At least with with these so called "high" standards the cadets at least tired to pass them and so trained for them. what now? they don't have to train to pass so why should they? I thought the CPFT was to have the cadets train for it so they could pass.... Is this not what we are about? training? getting better? how is lowing the standards gonna help that? we already lowed the aerospace, what next? the leadership? how about we just have the cadets pick what questions they want to answer? When I first joined I couldn't do the S & R.... and I couldn't do it for a while, So i trained and trained with it til I could pass it.... and now i get a 50+ (I got a 52 on the spaatz ;D ). The point is we our about training... not getting by with the least amount of work.
just my thoughts....
Our's is not to reason why, Our's is but to do and die.
yes, the standards were lowered. But, the fact is, a LOT of units were violating the regs by letting cadets promote even though they didn't really pass the PT tests. So, I guess it's the lesser of two evils. :-\
I know one one instance, where squadron commanders were told at a commanders call to pass them, if they tried hard, even if they weren't fit enough. So, you have cadets blazing a 12 minute mile, 5 situps, 2 pushups and still get promoted to C/MSgt. ehhh huh??? ::)
At least this way, the goal is easier. With the old standards set before the 52-18 was released, you passed based on the raw point value of your total score across all of the events. This allowed people who could run fast, but couldn't stretch enough to do the sit-n-reach to still pass. I knew soccer captains who were way too tall to stretch enough to come close to touching their feet. I wish we'd go back to this system, honestly.
Quote from: whatevah on March 31, 2005, 04:58:47 PM
yes, the standards were lowered. But, the fact is, a LOT of units were violating the regs by letting cadets promote even though they didn't really pass the PT tests. So, I guess it's the lesser of two evils. :-\
I know one one instance, where squadron commanders were told at a commanders call to pass them, if they tried hard, even if they weren't fit enough. So, you have cadets blazing a 12 minute mile, 5 situps, 2 pushups and still get promoted to C/MSgt. ehhh huh??? ::)
At least this way, the goal is easier. With the old standards set before the 52-18 was released, you passed based on the raw point value of your total score across all of the events. This allowed people who could run fast, but couldn't stretch enough to do the sit-n-reach to still pass. I knew soccer captains who were way too tall to stretch enough to come close to touching their feet. I wish we'd go back to this system, honestly.
Again, I don't agree with that. If units aren't following the old standard, why on earth would they follow any other standard?
I have another perspective not mentioned yet. My son and I joined a year ago. He would be a category III in the new standard (partial permanent disability). Prior to the change, his doctor looked at the three categories and said that my son wasn't any of them. He wasn't temporarily restricted, totally restricted, or totally unrestricted! We signed up for an encampment which still used CAPF 31 - the old categories. His doctor has signed him off as unrestricted. Needless to say, if the flight sergeant had known that what he was seeing with my son's walk was not laziness, but an actual physical disability, the encampment would have been better enjoyed, not only by my son but his flight as well. Is it lowering the standard? I'm not arguing about the 2 out of 3 - he needs to pass all 4 as far as I'm concerned - so he tested for all four anyway....
I don't see anything done wrong here... well, aside from the encampment part, which shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have at my encampment.
the categories were created for a specific reason, which your son has a need to make use of. The categories allow exeptions to the normal requirements.
Actually, it is recommended that cadets test for all four anyway. That way they can choose which one to drop - excluding the run, of course.
we make all of the cadets take all of the tests, regardless...
There are many Spaatz candidates who are excellent runners and can complete pushups and sit-ups with no problem. These guys could easily pump out a six minute mile but because of that their upper leg muscles were too tight to stretch far enough for the sit and reach. Its not really anything that could be helped. Its not their fault that they can't stretch very far just because they can run a decent mile, and in many cases its not something that could be corrected without suffering a lower score on the mile run.
Don't assume that these Spaatz candidates just aren't trying just because they haven't passed yet. These young men and women made it this far so at least give them a little bit of credit. Some people couldn't stretch that far no matter how hard they tried.
QuoteI still believe that we've lowered the standards. Solve the problem. If the problem is non-current data, get current data. It's easy to say "Oh, well we can fix this problem by saying they don't have to pass one part of the test." It's a lot harder to have the correct standards. This isn't the solution, it's just an extenuation of the problem.
This is only a
temporary solution until the fall NB meeting, you can bet this matter will be discussed thoroughly then. We are not in any way lowering our standards to solve the problem. National chose to make a move that would allow hard working cadets to move forward until a better solution could be reached and I respect them for that. You cannot blame them for caring about their people.
Besides, this is still much more work than the old point system we used to be on.
QuoteActually, it is recommended that cadets test for all four anyway. That way they can choose which one to drop - excluding the run, of course.
I believe it is
required that all cadets attempt all tests. I could be wrong as I haven't read the regs in question in quite some time. At least that is how my unit does things.
does this apply to all CAP Wings.
Quote from: Cheergirl on June 20, 2005, 08:31:32 PM
does this apply to all CAP Wings.
To what or whom are you referring? Not sure exactly what you are asking here.
Quote from: whatevah on March 01, 2005, 07:48:24 PM
http://level2.cap.gov/documents/CPFT_Policy_Letter_Feb_2005.pdf
Basically, you must complete the mile run or shuttle, and pass 2 of the other 3 events.
your comments?
Mike this is what i am referring too.
National Standard.
Quote from: Cheergirl on June 20, 2005, 08:38:55 PM
Quote from: whatevah on March 01, 2005, 07:48:24 PM
http://level2.cap.gov/documents/CPFT_Policy_Letter_Feb_2005.pdf
Basically, you must complete the mile run or shuttle, and pass 2 of the other 3 events.
your comments?
Mike this is what i am referring too.
Yes. It is a
National policy, therefore it applies to
all Wings, all units. :)
thank you sir
If your commander is unaware of this change, you should probably make them aware of it via the chain of command ASAP.
okay.thank you
I like the new regulations. But what made them change them? Did they just want to make it easier for the cadets just starting out?
They changed the standard because quite a few cadets complained that the newer test was too hard.
Personally, I prefer the pre-1 April 2003 PT regs with the point system.