How proficient are you?

dbaran · May 27, 2006, 05:16:44 AM

I recently had a cadet orientation pilot applicant disapproved because - although he met the 60-1 minimums and passed the form 5 and had been endorsed for cadet orientation pilot on the form 5 - the stand/eval officer at Group felt that the person wasn't flying enough to be proficient (applicant had 6 hours in the past 90 days, but holds a commercial license for ASEL and glider and has an instrument rating).

The DOV was looking for about 5 hours of flying every month for cadet o-ride pilots as a minimum standard of proficiency that is acceptable. In addition, he wanted 400-500 hours total time so that the person had enough experience to be on top of the flying situation.

Does anyone have experience with local (squadron/group/wing/region) proficiency requirements that are higher than the national 60-1 requirements? Or has anyone seen metrics that describe the average CAP pilot and how many hours (total - not just for CAP) they fly?

Chris Jacobs · May 27, 2006, 01:32:19 PM

I know that here in Oregon we are pushing for all of our pilots to try to fly more often so they are more proficient. I believe we are trying to have them fly about 5 hours a month and bare bones. But i don't know the compleat details.

Monty · May 28, 2006, 01:47:21 AM

Hi there...I'm curious. So that I have a good understanding, would you mind sharing how many hours the applicant has flown in the past year and a half?

Trying to get a full perspective....

Thanks!

flynd94 · May 28, 2006, 03:19:40 AM

Also, remember those are the absolute minimums requirements. I assume the DOV was taking everything in to account when denying the rating. On average the FAA thinks that you should fly between 50-75 hours a year to maintain your basic proficiency.

If we follow those guidelines, that is 4-6 hours a month. I feel we should be asking the same or more of our members.

I also would like to know more of the details. Is this gent (making the assumption) got for total hours? How much has he flown in the past 6, 9, 12 and 18 months?

Just my 2 cents worth

flyguy06 · May 28, 2006, 06:02:06 PM

I kind of agree and disagreee with that. I agree that we as CAP pilots have to be ssome of the most proficient general aviation pilots in America. We have to set the example of what a general aviation pilot is supposed to be.

On the other hand I am not sure if a group level person can dictate that standard. if it were me, In my state Groups arent really looked at as being authoritative. If I were him and I didnt like it and met the minimums according to CAPM 60-1 i would go to the Wing Stan'eval officer. But of course the Winc Stand/eval guy could always agree with the Group guy. Who knows.

dbaran · May 28, 2006, 09:05:24 PM

In regards to the question about flight hours in the previous year...total of 11.4, and the pilot in question has about 360 hours TT.

I have another one ready to go for approval - he's got 200.5 hours, but is flying 9 - 12 hours/month.

Who would you feel more comfortable flying with - the 360TT commercial who doesn't fly as much, or the 200.5TT who flys a lot?

Monty · May 28, 2006, 09:14:35 PM

I like to look at things in practical terms in order to see how things apply.

I'm INCREDIBLY short of a full-blown Russian Language BA degree. Went to DLI & UT and have more Russian language exposure and experience than most (кто-нибудь здесь говорит по-русски?) Problem is, I don't use Russian anymore...so while I have 70+ units of Russian, my currency is not what it was 10 years ago......

Another airman that is a Russian student AT DLI has less time than me but is USING the skill in the here 'n now - he's w/o a doubt less experienced than I but is more current in his APPLICATION and is much more proficiency than this (now) arm-chair interpreter.

If I have no choice but the two examples you provide, then I'd pick the guy who's more current in his daily flying. Just as I will go to a DLI Russian Language student to catch my own knowledge up.

Whenever a PRACTICAL skill is in play (such as flying) the amount that has been completed currently weighs very heavilly in this matter. (Obviously I'm simplifying the matter but...well, one could talk both sides of the coin until they are blue in the face; in the end, a decision must be reached and a decision must be made. Once that happens, we move on.)

Sorry...as a commander, I'd be cautious as heck when making O-Pilots. No death is acceptable...but fact is fact; a whoopsie with seniors makes a lot less of a dramatic news story on the nightly news than does "today a pilot and two children died today when....."

Always best to side on the side of caution... If the person is motivated enough to be an O Pilot, then their quality as a volunteer won't deteriate - let me get the practice up and then, it's an easier thing to deal with (sans whining, which is never becoming.)

shorning · May 28, 2006, 09:48:55 PM

Quote from: dbaran on May 28, 2006, 09:05:24 PM
In regards to the question about flight hours in the previous year...total of 11.4, and the pilot in question has about 360 hours TT.

11.4 in the past 12 months?

That's less than one hour per month (duh, right?). Were I a commander, I'd barely feel comfortable letting him fly by himself let alone with passengers!

Monty · May 28, 2006, 11:19:44 PM

Quote from: shorning on May 28, 2006, 09:48:55 PM
Quote from: dbaran on May 28, 2006, 09:05:24 PM
In regards to the question about flight hours in the previous year...total of 11.4, and the pilot in question has about 360 hours TT.

11.4 in the past 12 months? That's less than one hour per month (duh, right?). Were I a commander, I'd barely feel comfortable letting him fly by himself let alone with passengers!

Agreed...this one is a no-brainer in my opinion.

Next!

lordmonar · May 30, 2006, 10:59:34 AM

Quote from: dbaran on May 28, 2006, 09:05:24 PM
In regards to the question about flight hours in the previous year...total of 11.4, and the pilot in question has about 360 hours TT.

I have another one ready to go for approval - he's got 200.5 hours, but is flying 9 - 12 hours/month.

Who would you feel more comfortable flying with - the 360TT commercial who doesn't fly as much, or the 200.5TT who flies a lot?

The lower flight hours guy who had more time recently. Proficiency require repetition. Lots of hours is good but "what have you done lately" is often more important. I got 10 years working on the AN/TSC-100A satellite communications van....but I have not been in one in five years. I am no longer proficient on the van and a brand new Senior Airman with only two years in the van would be the smarter choice.

Now...where the long hours come in is the high time O-pilot can fly a few more hours per month and quickly become the more desirable pilot.

Recency is a factor in proficiency.

flynd94 · May 31, 2006, 06:03:23 AM

Both your pilots are considered "low-time" pilots. The gent only flying 11 hours a year, needs to get out more and fly before I would ever think of sending a cadet with him. He isn't maintaining any proficiency. I think the request that your Group Stan/Eval officer was right on target.

Remember, just because we meet the minimums, doesn't mean we are qualified to do the job. Tell your pilot to go out and spend sometime in the plane, then go back to your Group/DOV.

BillB · May 31, 2006, 08:58:12 AM

I disagree in one respect. Lets say John Smith goes and flies three hours from point A to Point B and return for another 3 hours. He logs six hours with two take off's and two landings. Bill Doe goes and for a one hour flight and makes 5 touch and go landings, practices stalls, and 720's around a point. Which is the more proficent? Just using the number of hours a pilot flies per month does not show proficency.