Army badges on CAP uniforms

[Eclipse]

From another thread and a local situation, I've done some research on Army badges worn on the CAP uniform.

From what I have read in both 39-1 and 36-2903, in order to wear military badge on a CAP USAF-style uniform they must meet two criteria.

     A) Be Approved for wear on the USAF uniform.

     B) Be worn in accordance with USAF standards, not the other services.

Assuming the above to be correct, I have come to the following conclusions:

1) The Expert Infantryman's Badge is not authorized for wear by CAP members.

2) The Air Assault badge is not authorized for CAP members.
(Unless the member is also in the USAF or reserves and only "while permanently assigned to and performing duties with other services", which is the only circumstance in which the badge would be USAF authorized in the first place, in other words a rank-and-file member of the army would not be authorized to wear it on a CAP uniform, because it is not authorized for wear normally in the USAF This is indicated in a CAP table.

The Army Weapons Qualification Badges are not authorized for CAP members as they do not appear to be authorized
for wear on any USAF uniform (I can't seem to find reference to them in the AFI anywhere).

I'm looking for anyone to shoot holes in the above, or any specific cites that support it.

I've checked the AFI, 39-1, a few other military forums, and Wikipedia to get to this point.

As an aside to this, if the Air Assault was/is approved for wear, then it would be worn in the place of the GTM or EMT badge to the exclusion of either, respectively, and we never wear badges on our pocket flaps, correct?

[mikeylikey]

I wear my Air Assault.  Table 6-5, page 116, 39-1, 2005. 

[mikeylikey]

Oh.....How I hate the edit button!  Now I look like I have no idea what I am typing about   

[jb512]

I would guess that after a call to national, he'd be able to wear his EIB and Air Assault wings, but nothing on the pocket flap (the EIB isn't listed on the table).  If he wanted to wear the EMT, it would take the place of the Air Assault.

[NIN]

Hmmm.

I agree with the weapons qualifications badges.  They're just not worn on the USAF uniform. Period.

And badges aren't worn on the pocket flap on CAP USAF-style uniforms.  So, yeah, that's out.

I don't recall that the dope-on-a-rope badge was in that "only worn when you're in a unit that wears it" (ie. you're a TACP assigned to the 101st..) category.  I know the rigger badge is.  I always assumed that the Bullwinkle Badge was classified the same as Airborne wings. I could be wrong.

Speaking as a guy who wears the Army Aviation badge (which is authorized), I know that aviation wings are allowed.

Or at least, they were 20 years ago.  Hope they are still....

[MIKE]

One could argue that CAPM 39-1s own wording invalidates both Table 6-5. and the magic 8-ball, since a badge can't be worn as prescribed by the USAF if it is not prescribed by USAF.

[Eclipse]

The Air Assault is indicated in a table, so no point in arguing it, though by USAF rules, I think it would not be allowed.

As to the EIB, as said, since it is not currently allowed by the USAF, it should not be allowed for us.

[jb512]

I didn't know that the EIB wasn't allowed by the AF.  I guess it's kinda like an occupational badge much like the AF has which aren't allowed by other services.

[Eclipse]

I suppose you could kind of view it that way - the uber-infantryman based on exhibition of high skill in that specialty.

From what I have read, the award is sometimes considered more prestigious (from a distance), because its an indication
of specific training and proficiency, vs. the CIB which can be awarded to infantryman in combat with less specific proficiency.

But regardless, it is apparently not authorized for wear by the USAF, so not for us either.

[PHall]

The Army markmanship badges are not allowed on the Air Force uniform because the Air Force has the Small Arms Expert Markmanship Ribbon.
The ribbon replaces the markmanship badge only if you shot expert, otherwise you're SOL.
And the only authorised attachment is a 3/16" bronze star if you have shot expert on more then one weapon.

And this does not mean that if you served in the Army that you can wear the Air Force ribbon on your CAP uniform.
You gotta serve in one of the branches of the Air Force (Active, Guard, Reserve) to be able to wear the ribbon.

In short, you have to have a DD214 or other written order awarding you the ribbon before you can wear it on your CAP uniform.

[Hawk200]

As an aside to this, if the Air Assault was/is approved for wear, then it would be worn in the place of the GTM or EMT badge to the exclusion of either, respectively, and we never wear badges on our pocket flaps, correct?

As far as "exclusion" goes, it only applies to an individual uniform. I've run into people that believe that if you wear the GT badge, and a set of wings, then you're not permitted to ever wear any other type of badge on any other uniform. Which is a serious misunderstanding of the term.

Me, if I have CAP badges, I'll probably wear them on one utility, and my military ones on another. May get crazy and wear one of each on still another uniform. All depends on how the color coordination works out.

[Major Carrales]

Marksmanship badges on a CAP uniform?  Why is it forbidden?  Why should it be allowed?  Let's take this to the debate level since the issue is not really "Army badges," but Marksmanship Badges from the U.S. Army and U.S. Marines.

[Eclipse]

As an aside to this, if the Air Assault was/is approved for wear, then it would be worn in the place of the GTM or EMT badge to the exclusion of either, respectively, and we never wear badges on our pocket flaps, correct?

As far as "exclusion" goes, it only applies to an individual uniform. I've run into people that believe that if you wear the GT badge, and a set of wings, then you're not permitted to ever wear any other type of badge on any other uniform. Which is a serious misunderstanding of the term.

Me, if I have CAP badges, I'll probably wear them on one utility, and my military ones on another. May get crazy and wear one of each on still another uniform. All depends on how the color coordination works out.

Right.

If you want to swap things around, wear something different on your service jacket from your short sleeve shirt, etc., no problem.

[MIKE]

Marksmanship badges on a CAP uniform?  Why is it forbidden?  Why should it be allowed?  Let's take this to the debate level since the issue is not really "Army badges," but Marksmanship Badges from the U.S. Army and U.S. Marines.

Let me just say that they look really out of place on a set of trops... As does a CIB.

[Hawk200]

Marksmanship badges on a CAP uniform?  Why is it forbidden?  Why should it be allowed?  Let's take this to the debate level since the issue is not really "Army badges," but Marksmanship Badges from the U.S. Army and U.S. Marines.

Only certain marksmanship badges are permitted, those being the Civilian Marksmanship Program badges. Pretty much every branch has a variation of the same basic badges with their specific branch on it (The Air Force bronze Excellence in Competition badge actually says "U.S. Air Force", the Army one says "U.S. Army", and so on....).

Marksmanship badges from other services are not permitted as the Air Force uses a ribbon to denote marksmanship as opposed to a badge. It is only for the Expert level, not broken down to something like basic, sharpshooter, expert as the Army does it (don't know what the specific Marine ones are, or how they are scored).

The CMP badges authorized on Air Force uniforms tend to look out of place, because only a very small few have them. Many people are rather begrudging of the bling, because they don't have the ability or the opportunity to earn them as well. But that's life, not everyone has the same opportunities as everyone else.

[Trung Si Ma]

Let me just say that they look really out of place on a set of trops... As does a CIB.

The CIB never looks out of place.

When I commanded the Fayetteville Composite Squadron back in the 80's, we had a piece of paper from National stating that the EIB was legal for wear.  This was important since most of my seniors were in the 82nd.  I think NCWG thought that the parachutist badge was our squadron patch.

[Dad2-4]

And the NRA marksmanship program badges are allowed for cadets. I think they look strange hanging on a USAF uniform, too JROTC-esque for me.
(Ref: CAPR 39-1, Table 6-2, Item 11)

[Stonewall]

The CIB and other Army badges was allowed by the AF up until a few years ago.  I was called on something when I argued the CIB was legit in the AF until I read the newest of the newer regs.  I was looking at an '03 AFI and the '06 one had since taken over....or something like that.

At one time, the Air Assault badge was authorized in CAP.  In fact, I thought it still was.  But at one point it actually authorized it by name.

EIB, as far as I'm concerned, has never been authorized by the AF.  The AFI did, however, say that the Expert Combat Medic Badge was authorized.  So again, you had someone who knew nothing about other service badges saying what was and wasn't good to go in the AF.

[hatentx]

i dont see why any other military badges are not allowed.  I understand something that are just Army or just Navy sucj as Regimental Affilations but as if comes to skill or combat badges I dont see an issue.  If you have a EIB, CIB, CAB, I would say wear it (if I were making the rules) Im not even making the issue of Combat Patches but as it comes to badges why is there a big deal. 

[Major Carrales]

i dont see why any other military badges are not allowed.  I understand something that are just Army or just Navy sucj as Regimental Affilations but as if comes to skill or combat badges I dont see an issue.  If you have a EIB, CIB, CAB, I would say wear it (if I were making the rules) Im not even making the issue of Combat Patches but as it comes to badges why is there a big deal. 

There are some that think there are already too many things on the uniform.  There are many that think we shouldn't even be allowed to wear uniforms at all.  There are some that would ask "why do we need combat badges for what we do."  I imagine some might be jealous that someone has one of these and not them.  There are even those that see it as a "service pride" thing.

The answer to that question is quite broad...I don't know if we can answer it here properly.