Another question

[THRAWN]

Want that still Cadet Sergeant at the time? Didnt the change to Senior Airman happen sometime around the addition to the super NCO grades and the switch to the 3 button blues?

Found it!!

[NIN]

that photo was taken in, uh, 2015 or 2016.

Definite post "super-grades"

[Jester]

We're mixing things up. I was talking about the actual AF "supergrades" of SMSgt and CMSgt which were established when the E8 and E9 pay grades materialized.

[PHall]

We're mixing things up. I was talking about the actual AF "supergrades" of SMSgt and CMSgt which were established when the E8 and E9 pay grades materialized.

The Air Force has had First Sergeants since day one. The Air Force differs from the Army in that First Sergeant is a position and not a grade.
After the "supergrades" came along you could be a E-7, E-8 or a E-9 and be a First Sergeant. The grade authorized is tied to the number of enlisted in the unit.
In 31-1/2 years of service I saw many, many E-7 First Sergeants, a few E-8 First Sergeants and have never seen an E-9 First Sergeant.
And then there are Senior Enlisted Advisers/Command Chiefs which a totally different subject.

[Jester]

In 8 years I saw one Chief with a diamond, and the handful of seniors just happened to promote while first sergeants.

My main question was if first sergeant was always a "senior" NCO responsibility even though the only SNCO rank then was MSgt.

I used to have an article about the selection process when the supergrades came about. Interesting how they looked at a pool of MSgts and decided who would be masters, seniors, and chiefs.

[TheSkyHornet]

Maybe a side topic on an already derailed thread:

Why did the Air Force---if anyone knows---elect to go with the First Sergeant role not being tied to a rank (rather instead using a series of eligible ranks)?

Is it the echelon and command structure design, and how it differs from land-based units?

[SarDragon]

I think it is dependent on command size. The Navy has a similar structure, where a SNCO is the Command Chief (Senior Enlisted Advisor in times past). Smaller commands will use a Chief, larger ones will use a Senior Chief, and the biggest ones use a Master Chief.

There is also a Command Master Chief career path where that position becomes your primary assignment, regardless of original specialty.

[PHall]

I think it is dependent on command size. The Navy has a similar structure, where a SNCO is the Command Chief (Senior Enlisted Advisor in times past). Smaller commands will use a Chief, larger ones will use a Senior Chief, and the biggest ones use a Master Chief.

There is also a Command Master Chief career path where that position becomes your primary assignment, regardless of original specialty.

SarDragon got it. The grade authorized for the First Sergeant manpower position is dependent on the unit size.
First Sergeant in the Air Force is a "Special Duty", just like Recruiters, MTI's, etc...  So it's open to all AFSC's and not just the AFSC's that are in that unit.

[TheSkyHornet]

Maybe it's just a translation of terminology for me.

I'm atrocious at understanding Air Force methodology

[NIN]

we've taken this one as far afield as it needs to go.