New USAF Uniforms look to be WWII in most origin!!!

[Major Carrales]

http://www.airforcetimes.com/projects/flash/2007_03_16_afuniforms/

Its a belted jacket with old school lapels and FOUR BUTTONS.

Not bad looking...very professional.

[ZigZag911]

Looks OK, I'm not sure what the point is to 'false' pockets on lower part of jacket.

I understand that one doies not use  these pockets on a military uniform....my point is, why bother with the fake flaps?

Still, it's nice to see something drawn from the historical roots of the AF.

[CLB]

AWESOME! 

Now we'll have to buy something else, especially after I just spent $160 in December to buy the "current" one. 

[DNall]

Hate it!!! Looks stupid. I'm, all for heritage & military tradition, but it looks like the 40s, not the cutting edge warrior AF. I know a lot of people didn't like the current business suit approach - personally, I like it - and if they wanted to militarize that a bit, I think that would be well recieved, but this thing is just silly looking in so many ways. I think they missed the mark entirely & I think that's what the wear test will reveal. At very least the belt ain't happenin.

[RiverAux]

Great....another new uniform.....

[ColonelJack]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

Jack

[pixelwonk]

Hate it!!! Looks stupid. I'm, all for heritage & military tradition, but it looks like the 40s, not the cutting edge warrior AF. I know a lot of people didn't like the current business suit approach - personally, I like it - and if they wanted to militarize that a bit, I think that would be well recieved, but this thing is just silly looking in so many ways. I think they missed the mark entirely & I think that's what the wear test will reveal. At very least the belt ain't happenin.

Word!

Great....another new uniform.....

...that we won't have to adopt for another decade. 

By then Monty Pineda's Flying Circus will have us not wearing current Air Force uniforms at all instead opting for double breasted choker-collar coats with Sam Browne belts and leather flying helmets (with goggles)

[ColonelJack]

Hate it!!! Looks stupid. I'm, all for heritage & military tradition, but it looks like the 40s, not the cutting edge warrior AF. I know a lot of people didn't like the current business suit approach - personally, I like it - and if they wanted to militarize that a bit, I think that would be well recieved, but this thing is just silly looking in so many ways. I think they missed the mark entirely & I think that's what the wear test will reveal. At very least the belt ain't happenin.

Well, it seems that those who like the current "business suit" uniform (the McPeak design as altered) are in the minority and the AF is going to have a new blouse.  I love the idea that they're going back to their roots ... '45 and even '18.  Silly?  I disagree ... it looks military in ways the business suit never could.  And if I read the AF Times article correctly, the wear test has already happened, since they're promoting this as "your new service coat."  I got a feeling the belt is going to happen.

Like I said ... niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

Jack

[ColonelJack]

I stand corrected ... the wear-test takes place this summer on a limited basis.

Still ... I think they're going to go forward with this design with great vigor.

Jack

[RiverAux]

Note that you have to have the belt loops tailored for them to look right.

[pixelwonk]

Can't you just envision vast CAP members developing Acute Dunlop Disease when this rolls out to the masses years down the road? 

[DNall]

Quite a bit of tailoring in fact... I'd also note the wear test is going foward with both belted & non-belted versions. I think you'll find the belt gone for sure & the overall reactions haighly mixed... reflecting basically what I said, that the business suit approach isn't military enough, but this thing looks like a 40s reject that totally misses the point of who & what the AF is & the personality they want to engender in comparison to the other services. Such a cut would be much better recieved by the Marines, who live in another century. The AF uniform should look like it belongs next to an F22, not the wright flier.

[RiverAux]

Frankly, when you start talking about how "military" any formal uniforms are I just start to chuckle...  If its not getting mud, blood, or engine oil on it, its just a costume in my book. 

[DNall]

"military" with regard to uniforms isn't what you wear when getting shot at, that's the least important thing. It is the ceremonial costume aspect that matters most,,, in a service coat anyway. That's supposed to reflect your identity & define who you are.

[Major_Chuck]

So glad I don't have to wear it.  Don't get me wrong, it is okay looking.  I'm having my own issues having to deal with the Army Class A's going away and purchasing the Army Blues.

[DNall]

^ No kidding.

[MIKE]

I kinda like the belt... but I think having the belt be tailored is going to look bad in practice.  Just look at the belts on the female and male versions in the pictures.

[Pylon]

Men's neckties for females... interesting! 

(At least the Air Force field tests and gets feedback on their proposed new uniforms first...)

[MIKE]

Men's neckties for females... interesting! 

The RAF does it.  Though I'll admit it looks kinda odd though with a female wearing a black bow tie with the mess dress uniforms.

[Pylon]

Men's neckties for females... interesting! 

The RAF does it.  Though I'll admit it looks kinda odd though with a female wearing a black bow tie with the mess dress uniforms.

I do like it, don't get me wrong.  I think it's interesting and I'm sure the feedback they get from female airmen will also be interesting.  The bow-tie, however, I don't know how that would look....

[MIKE]

RAF ORDERS OF DRESS - FEMALE PERSONNNEL

[DNall]

give it a few days & go look at the feedback on a few of the AF sites (including linked to that article). I think you'll find your answer there. Fact is if the force hates it then it won't happen, cause if it's a uniform that effects retention positively versus one that effects it negatively then airmen get what airmen want.

[arajca]

Anyone else notice the epaulets are "X" stitched where the grade insignia goes and the major is wearing what appears to be general's sleeve braid?

[lordmonar]

Hate it!!! Looks stupid. I'm, all for heritage & military tradition, but it looks like the 40s, not the cutting edge warrior AF. I know a lot of people didn't like the current business suit approach - personally, I like it - and if they wanted to militarize that a bit, I think that would be well recieved, but this thing is just silly looking in so many ways. I think they missed the mark entirely & I think that's what the wear test will reveal. At very least the belt ain't happenin.

hahahahaha......I love it when you want to be more like the USAF you don't like the same thing the USAF likes!

It's good that CAP does not get any input into what the USAF gets to wear!

[lordmonar]

Frankly, when you start talking about how "military" any formal uniforms are I just start to chuckle...  If its not getting mud, blood, or engine oil on it, its just a costume in my book. 

Do you really want to go there River?

[wingnut]

well looks just like what we wore in 1971, except the belt. I would like to see the dark blue wool shirt with the dark blue tie back looks sharp.

[DNall]

hahahahaha......I love it when you want to be more like the USAF you don't like the same thing the USAF likes!

It's good that CAP does not get any input into what the USAF gets to wear!

I want us to be more organizationally aligned with the AF, sure, and that includes respectable looking uniforms, not for the sake of looking like them cause it's cool, but cause it really means acceptance from both sides as par tof the team.

If the AF goes to this, them of course we should seek to wear it as much like theirs as we can. That doesn't mean I like the way it looks, or that I'm in love with what they wear now either. I think though you'll find from teh wreactions within the AF that this isn't all that popular. I think what you'll get is pretty much the service coat we had before the current one but in the new fabric, a little more tappered, and with the throwback collar, and that's fine.

[ColonelJack]

What I found interesting about the AF Times article was the fact that the Mitchell-style blouse (high collar) was vastly more popular with the airmen and officers, but wasn't selected.  Apparently the issue with the Mitchell-style blouse is that you can't wear a shirt and tie under it without massive discomfort (the alternative is keeping the blouse on all the time).  They're looking at the Mitchell blouse as a semi-dress uniform, between regular service dress and mess dress.  (A place for the AF to wear their full-size medals, which they don't currently have.)

Side note -- if the Arnold-style blouse is adopted (with belt or sans belt) and the AF takes on the Mitchell blouse as well ... and they eventually trickle down to CAP -- which they will -- does that mean Vanguard will start producing full-size medals for CAP awards to wear on the Mitchell blouse?  (Heh heh heh heh)

I never really understood what was wrong with the blouse we used to have, the one that looked like a blue, thin-lapeled Army style.  [darn] that McPeak, anyway -- he started all this!

Jack

[davedove]

I don't mind the uniform, but I think the men's uniform would have looked much better if it was better tailored to the model.  For one thing, the position of the belt looks wrong on him.  I think if it set a little higher, it would look much sharper.

[RiverAux]

Frankly, when you start talking about how "military" any formal uniforms are I just start to chuckle...  If its not getting mud, blood, or engine oil on it, its just a costume in my book. 

Do you really want to go there River?

Don't worry, I say the same thing about the "uniform" I wear for my regular job.

[LtCol White]

I think the new coat looks sharp. At least they decided that the color shade would remain the same and that allows for use of the same trousers people already have. So the only cost is really the coat itself.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I like it.  This LOOKS like a military uniform. 

Interestingly, it was the Air Corps that pioneered the shift from the high collar of the "Mitchell" design to the shirt-tie-and-lapel uniform.  Pilots said that they couldn't wear the high collar because of the requirement to keep looking around while flying.  The rest of the Army followed the Air Corps lead later.

[lordmonar]

I never really understood what was wrong with the blouse we used to have, the one that looked like a blue, thin-lapeled Army style.  [darn] that McPeak, anyway -- he started all this!

The only complaint I ever had with the old style service coat was the cut in the arms was kind of tight.  Just driving with the jacket on could be a pain.  Mc Peak used that complaint to justify his desire to make us look more Navy.

[LtCol White]

I'm glad USAF is going back to a more military look. I hated when McPeak ditched the old uniform because it was a "blue army uniform". USAF was carved from the army so I thought the styling of the uniform was appropriate.

I do like the belt on the new service coat. Having been a Marine Officer, I always felt something was missing from the USAF service coat. The green USMC service coat has always had the belt and finished off the coat.  I hope the wear tests will keep them.

[A.Member]

I have to give another day or so. 

My initial reaction is that I don't like the belt.  The idea of using earlier uniforms for inspiration is a good one and I like the idea of a belt....but I just don't think I like the belt selected.  Based on the close-up, it looks kind of cheap.  Perhaps it's something else that I can't put my finger on  (maybe needs more contrast - real dark blue?  I don't know).  As mentioned by someone earlier, it could also just possibly be a matter of fit on the "model".  I'd expect it to be more fitted more in the waist.  They also could've given the pockets more of a modern look - sleek. 

Overall, not bad but not great either.  Is it an improvement over current?  Hmmm.... Like I said, I'll have to give it a few days to sink in.

[ddelaney103]

I like the uniform.  When in doubt, steal from the experts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PlateI_Officer_Service_Uniform.jpg

Service A, baby!

The current uniform, especially for the junior enlisteds (who don't even get the epaulets), is pretty lame from a military standpoint.

[MIKE]

Service A, baby!

More like: No 1 SD

[ddelaney103]

Service A, baby!

More like: No 1 SD

Nah - no epaulets. 

That "braid on the sleeve" grade insignia was what McPeak was aiming for with the current Service Dress.  I remember they started selling epaulet kits for the officers so the early adopters wouldn't be out a couple of hundred bucks.

[ZigZag911]

I like the idea of a belt....but I just don't think I like the belt selected.  Based on the close-up, it looks kind of cheap.  Perhaps it's something else that I can't put my finger on 

Yeah, I couldn't come up with what was bothering me about it, 'cause I basically like it....but the belt doesn't look, I don't know, "crisp" enough.

[lordmonar]

Service A, baby!

More like: No 1 SD

Nah - no epaulets. 

That "braid on the sleeve" grade insignia was what McPeak was aiming for with the current Service Dress.  I remember they started selling epaulet kits for the officers so the early adopters wouldn't be out a couple of hundred bucks.

It did not work, because a lot of the Navy Styple silver rank stripes ruined the lower sleeves and they had to buy a new coat anyway.

[DNall]

Service A, baby!

More like: No 1 SD

you know I like the RAF as much as the next guy, but I really wish the AF weren't as obsessed with them as they are. And it's the marine blues that look spiffy, the greens are not impressive at all.

Really, why not just go back to the exact same four pocket coat we had before this one, but in the new fabric. We used that coat forever, and as was mentioned it was an AF colored version of the Army service coat - solidarity with the sister service, roots, all that jazz.

[A.Member]

After further consideration, I think it's OK but could actually be pretty decent with a couple minor tweeks.    So:

1.  A more tailored fit is needed.  It looks a bit sloppy but this is most likely an issue with the particular person serving as the model.

2.  The slacks need a stripe.  A dark blue one down the side, similar to the Army (1 1/4" to 1 1/2" wide).  This simple addition alone would move the uniform from just OK to very good.  To me, this is a no brainer.

I still think there could be some sort of improvement on the belt but I don't know what that improvement would be right now (maybe slightly thicker with a slightly more impressive buckle?).

[DNall]

2.  The slacks need a stripe.  A dark blue one down the side, similar to the Army.  This simple addition alone would move the uniform from just OK to very good.  To me, this is a no brainer.

same as the commission braid we have on the sleeve now, which incidently the one on the new coat should be the same as well. I could deal with that. Pain in the but, but okay.

I agree more tappered is good. The belt aint happening, but I think what you're looking for is like the ceremonial belt the Army uses? only dark blue like the braid obviously.

[JohnKachenmeister]

2.  The slacks need a stripe.  A dark blue one down the side, similar to the Army.  This simple addition alone would move the uniform from just OK to very good.  To me, this is a no brainer.

same as the commission braid we have on the sleeve now, which incidently the one on the new coat should be the same as well. I could deal with that. Pain in the but, but okay.

I agree more tappered is good. The belt aint happening, but I think what you're looking for is like the ceremonial belt the Army uses? only dark blue like the braid obviously.

The Army wears a stripe on the pants to designate leaders.  This goes back to the days when the leaders rode horses.  The Air Force never rode horses.

[A.Member]

2.  The slacks need a stripe.  A dark blue one down the side, similar to the Army.  This simple addition alone would move the uniform from just OK to very good.  To me, this is a no brainer.

same as the commission braid we have on the sleeve now, which incidently the one on the new coat should be the same as well. I could deal with that. Pain in the but, but okay.

I agree more tappered is good. The belt aint happening, but I think what you're looking for is like the ceremonial belt the Army uses? only dark blue like the braid obviously.

The Army wears a stripe on the pants to designate leaders.  This goes back to the days when the leaders rode horses.  The Air Force never rode horses.

Enlisted (Corp. and higher) and officers both wear the stripe (slightly different widths).  And since airplanes are way cooler than horses, I see no reason why the Air Force shouldn't also have a stripe. 

[Psicorp]

The Army wears a stripe on the pants to designate leaders.  This goes back to the days when the leaders rode horses.  The Air Force never rode horses.

Enlisted (Corp. and higher) and officers both wear the stripe (slightly different widths).  And since airplanes are way cooler than horses, I see no reason why the Air Force shouldn't also have a stripe. 

And even the planes that leak hydrolic fluid and jet fuel smell better.   

[SAR-EMT1]

As I understand it this new uniform was very carefully controlled and actually the result of a questionare sent out to AF ENLISTED Honor Guardsmen. The concept being just what some here complain about... to stand next to the most modern of technologies and imagine the early days.
The Vote was overwhelmingly infavor of the belt, Also, of a return of the CRUSH CAP -blue- and of a 1 inch stripe - silver- down the pants.  --fyi.

[A.Member]

... and of a 1 inch stripe - silver- down the pants.  --fyi.

A silver stripe would be nasty.  A dark blue stripe is the way to go...also needs to be a bit wider than 1".

[LtCol White]

Wouldnt it be rather amusing if USAF decided to make the sleeve braid the silver as it is on the TPU? Thankfully they won't

[DNall]

hey maybe the AF can just adopt the TPU, it looks military, if you're counting the Guatemalan Navy. 

[LtCol White]

Guatamala has a navy?

LOL

[Pylon]

Guatamala has a navy?

LOL

Hey, if Bolivia can have a Navy (they're land-locked), then anybody can!

[sardak]

Nebraska has had a Navy since 1931.  You can request a commission as an admiral from the Governor.

http://www.gov.state.ne.us/admiralships/admiralship.html

Mike

[LtCol White]

Nebraska has had a Navy since 1931.  You can request a commission as an admiral from the Governor.

http://www.gov.state.ne.us/admiralships/admiralship.html

Mike

Do you get command of a ship on wheels so you can go sailing in the cornfields?

"combines away my boys......"

[LtCol White]

Guatamala has a navy?

LOL

Hey, if Bolivia can have a Navy (they're land-locked), then anybody can!

Wonder if their warships are rowboats armed with BB guns. HAHAHAA

[sardak]

You laugh.  Take a look.

Picture moved to separate link to keep the thread from bogging down.
http://www.m2ei.com/misc/patrol_boat.jpg

Mike

[LtCol White]

hahaha....

[Psicorp]

   The recoil from the .50 cal. would provide more thrust for that boat than the little engine will.

[LtCol White]

perhaps it should be mounted on the rear so that they can fire as they run away....then they would have extra speed!

[Psicorp]

perhaps it should be mounted on the rear so that they can fire as they run away....then they would have extra speed!

The Tale of Sir Lieutenant(jg) Robin:
"Run Away, Run Away, keep firing!!!, Run Away!"

[JC004]

Nebraska has had a Navy since 1931.  You can request a commission as an admiral from the Governor.

http://www.gov.state.ne.us/admiralships/admiralship.html

Mike

I want one!  Does it have any...uh...boats?

[ColonelJack]

Nebraska has had a Navy since 1931.  You can request a commission as an admiral from the Governor.

http://www.gov.state.ne.us/admiralships/admiralship.html

Mike

I want one!  Does it have any...uh...boats?

Well, I've "applied" for one.  (Can you nominate yourself???  I may soon find out!)

Jack

[Nick Critelli]

Forget this USAF new uniform nonsense. Let's return to the good old days of the 1955 summer uniform.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The Army wears a stripe on the pants to designate leaders.  This goes back to the days when the leaders rode horses.  The Air Force never rode horses.

Enlisted (Corp. and higher) and officers both wear the stripe (slightly different widths).  And since airplanes are way cooler than horses, I see no reason why the Air Force shouldn't also have a stripe. 

And even the planes that leak hydrolic fluid and jet fuel smell better.   

Enlisted who are corporals are considered NCO's, hence, leaders.

[lordmonar]

Forget this USAF new uniform nonsense. Let's return to the good old days of the 1955 summer uniform.

My dad was an Aviation Cadet back in 1958-60 (retired in 1982)...he used to tell me about the bramuda shorts and pith helmets!

Now that's a uniform I could live with@

[afgeo4]

I think the problem we're all talking about with the belts actually isn't a belt problem. It's a button problem and it's going to cost this uniform the belt.

If you notice, the USMC green service coat has 3 buttons on top followed by the belt and then open flaps to allow for free movement while marching/walking.

The USAF new blue coat has 4 buttons and the belt fits in between buttons, even though it's slightly wider than the space between those buttons. If the belt needs to be moved up or down slightly to fit the physique, it would have to cover one of the buttons which would be a no-no. So... you either move it up/down to the next slot between buttons or you leave it as is and wear the coat as the model in the picture is wearing it, visually improperly. Also, the bottom button will restrict the movement of the individual somewhat and will make us want to unbutton the button when driving. Which will result in undone buttons on coats since people will forget to close them back up.

I like the uniform as a whole, I just really don't like the pocket designs. I think they're terribly outdated. I think simpler pocket stitching and flaps would look better. I also obviously think that they should have gone with the USMC button design if going with a belt (which I like since it creates a more athletic appearance.)