Uniform visability

[desert rat]

On ground team missions in hot areas people tend to remove their blouses (shirts).  They are wearing the black t-shirts and BDU pants or blue BDU pants.  They look just like the National gaurd or police then.  Many don't wear the orange vest or wear camo backpacks over the vest.

Wouldn't orange t-shirts like Hawk Mountin make sense?  Keeps the grouns team visible and thus safer.  It also distinguishes us from other groups like national gaurd.

What do you think?

[DrJbdm]

The problem i see is that a orange t-shirt worn with BDUs would look very unprofessional. I don't see anything wrong with looking like national Guard.

  The Air Force doesn't wear orange t-shirts so neither should we. We do kinda follow what Air Force is doing and we should continue.

[Eclipse]

I think they should follow the regs and wear their vests...

[MIKE]

On ground team missions in hot areas people tend to remove their blouses (shirts).  They are wearing the black t-shirts and BDU pants or blue BDU pants.  They look just like the National gaurd ...

Thats kind of the point.  After Katrina the USAF was testing tan t-shirts for the ABU that said Air Force across the back... Their reasoning was that airmen were getting confused with soldiers by the media.  IIRC it wasn't well received in testing and is being redesigned.

Wouldn't orange t-shirts like Hawk Mountin make sense?  Keeps the grouns team visible and thus safer.  It also distinguishes us from other groups like national gaurd.

I do not care for the orange shirts... And currently they are not an authorized uniform item.  If you need visibility wear the orange reflective vest.

What I might support would be standardized black t-shirts and a heavier weight black long-sleeve mock-neck shirt with a full color CAP MAJCOM patch logo on the left chest... Maybe add www.cap.gov (free advertising) across the back and make the logo/text reflective in low light like the Army and USAF PT shirts.

At least until we have to wear tan with the ABU.

[shorning]

On ground team missions in hot areas people tend to remove their blouses (shirts).  They are wearing the black t-shirts and BDU pants or blue BDU pants.  They look just like the National gaurd or police then.  Many don't wear the orange vest or wear camo backpacks over the vest.

Wouldn't orange t-shirts like Hawk Mountin make sense?  Keeps the grouns team visible and thus safer.  It also distinguishes us from other groups like national gaurd.

What do you think?

I don't think we need to make up uniform combinations.  If you have concerns of looking like LE or the Guard, then stay in uniform.  You should be in uniform and wearing a vest in the first place.  If you're truly concerned with being seen, there are other things your unit can do and still be within the regualations.  For example, an orange hat.  Heck, if you're concerned with covering up your vest with camoflauge backpack, then don't allow them.  Make everyone use an orange backpack.  But that wouldn't look as "kewl" as an orange t-shirt.

It makes more sense to keep the uniform shirt on.  I've done SAR in the Southwest and been deployed to some hot, desert locations.  Keeping the shirt on provides some protection from the sun.  You'd be better off worrying about hydration.

[Matt]

I would have to concur with Eclipse and shorning on this one.

One, it's the uniform -- it's better than having to go in blues like years ago...  Secondly, aside from just needing to stay in uniform, there's a number of other reasons, such as:
1.) Helps prevent dehydration, helps contain sweat and acts as a cooling barrier
2.) Helps protect against UV which will make you tired
3.) Protection from the elements... helps especially with trees and more so up here in WI -- MOSQUITOES!
4.) In the event of coming on a crash it adds an extra layer of protection for shrapnel, BBP, and the like; it can also, in the event of survivors, help as though it were a trauma blanket (improvised, of course).

Also, as shorning said, use an orange hat, or as we do -- ORANGE HELMETS!  They help to see you in the thicket much better than a vest.  It also is easier for air crews to see bobbing orange jelly beans than just vests.

The remorse factor for heat is minimal here -- when it's 90 with a 80% humidity... it's better to keep it on...  Besides -- it's your uniform, you've chosen to go on the mission, keep it on...

[swya]

i must agree with shorning that it is important to stay in uniform, but a standardized cap shirt would make sense in case someone had to take their blouse off for an improvised litter or something off

[Eclipse]

An improvised litter doesn't stop you from putting your vest back on.

If its the bulk, etc., do what a lot of us have done and go with the orange SAR-med type vests.  They are more comfortable (and senior-body forgiving) then the tac gear, and your vest can't be covered by the gear, because it IS the gear.

And as stated, in high sun, your blouse shoudl be on, sleeves down, anyway.

Lots of options, here, but the regs are clear.

[shorning]

...but a standardized cap shirt would make sense...

You mean like the black or brown one that is already required to be worn?  Like Eclipse said, you can put the vest back on.  In fact according to our regs, you should put the vest back on.

[swya]

your right but a cap shirt with the words cap on it is still very cool

[shorning]

your right but a cap shirt with the words cap on it is still very cool

Ah...now we come to the crux of the issue:  "it looks cool".

Absolutely the wrong reason for us to wear anything!  Skip the "cool" until we can master the basics.

[JohnKachenmeister]

1.  You should stay in uniform.

2.  Which would you rather be mistaken for:  National Guardsmen or Road Gang Convicts, the latter usually are wearing orange T-shirts.

[DNall]

That's right. If people really knew how unqualified CAP is & that it's a volunter civilian org, etc then they wouldn't give you the time of day. Being mistaken as having a closer relationship with the military causes people to think we meet military level qualifications & experience levels based on age & grade. We need to match up as close as we reasonablly can with their expectations of military profressionalism so they don't think twice about it. Otherwise you're just shooting yourself in the foot for no reason at all.

You want to make a black Sq T-shirt w/ a Sq emblem in the left front & "search & rescue" on the back, well I guess you can get away with that, but it's not in regs.

You want visability, make sure you got a good vest & wear it, carry signal panels & mirror like the book says, a small strobe & chem lights. Personally, I've never had a problem using the vest & GPS coordinates relayed over the radio.

[Major_Chuck]

Wear the vest, it is the safe thing to do. 

[RiverAux]

If you're actually out doing GT stuff, you should wear the BDU shirt.

However, where the issue seems to come up is flightline crews and when GTs are sitting under a tree at base waiting to be deployed.  In those situations t-shirts are often more appropriate.  So, if we had a t-shirt with lettering, they could come in handy then. 

However, this would probably lead to a CAP standard t-shirt that would have to be bought through Vanguard for $15-20...

[brasda91]

On ground team missions in hot areas people tend to remove their blouses (shirts).  They are wearing the black t-shirts and BDU pants or blue BDU pants.  They look just like the National gaurd or police then.  Many don't wear the orange vest or wear camo backpacks over the vest.

Wouldn't orange t-shirts like Hawk Mountin make sense?  Keeps the grouns team visible and thus safer.  It also distinguishes us from other groups like national gaurd.

What do you think?

I don't think we need to make up uniform combinations.  If you have concerns of looking like LE or the Guard, then stay in uniform.  You should be in uniform and wearing a vest in the first place.

It makes more sense to keep the uniform shirt on.  Keeping the shirt on provides some protection from the sun.  You'd be better off worrying about hydration.

Dang, that's what I was going to say!

[DNall]

Waiting around outside & on the flight line are exactly times when you need to be wearing the shirt. I understand where you're coming from, but you really should be protecting from the sun & massively hydrating. That's why it's important to keep people cycled thru the AC to keep your people fresh.

[Hawk200]

I do not care for the orange shirts... And currently they are not an authorized uniform item.  If you need visibility wear the orange reflective vest.

I would agree. And I don't think it would really be a bad idea to have some kind of "Civil Air Patrol" markings on the vest either. Either made that way, or some kind of generic panel that would be sewn on a vest.

What I might support would be standardized black t-shirts and a heavier weight black long-sleeve mock-neck shirt with a full color CAP MAJCOM patch logo on the left chest... Maybe add www.cap.gov (free advertising) across the back and make the logo/text reflective in low light like the Army and USAF PT shirts.

I like the idea of a color MAJCOM style patch, and the www.cap.gov line. I don't like the idea of reflective panels on the shirt, it seems like I get some serious warm spots that can get kinda uncomfortable. Maybe add the web address to an orange vest as well.

It may sound stupid, but if someone looks out their window in their neighborhood, and sees the web address, they can just pull it up on their computer to determine who "those guys in camo out in the street" are. Could provide information that might prevent someone from walking outside with a shotgun in hand.

It probably seems farfetched, but that's what comes to mind.

[MIKE]

I do not care for the orange shirts... And currently they are not an authorized uniform item.  If you need visibility wear the orange reflective vest.

I would agree. And I don't think it would really be a bad idea to have some kind of "Civil Air Patrol" markings on the vest either. Either made that way, or some kind of generic panel that would be sewn on a vest.

There is this one, but it's fugly IMO.

What I might support would be standardized black t-shirts and a heavier weight black long-sleeve mock-neck shirt with a full color CAP MAJCOM patch logo on the left chest... Maybe add www.cap.gov (free advertising) across the back and make the logo/text reflective in low light like the Army and USAF PT shirts.

I like the idea of a color MAJCOM style patch, and the www.cap.gov line. I don't like the idea of reflective panels on the shirt, it seems like I get some serious warm spots that can get kinda uncomfortable. Maybe add the web address to an orange vest as well.

Not reflective panels... The MAJCOM patch and the www.cap.gov text would be reflective.  Example:


Note the "ARMY" on the shorts.  The shirts are supposed to do it too, and I have one that does... but it is not evident in this pic.

[Hawk200]

There is this one, but it's fugly IMO.

That thing is actually $30 ?! I wouldn't buy it....

Not reflective panels... The MAJCOM patch and the www.cap.gov text would be reflective.  Example:


Note the "ARMY" on the shorts.  The shirts are supposed to do it too, and I have one that does... but it is not evident in this pic.

I have those same PT clothes. The warm spot I'm referencing is that stylized reflective "A" on the back of the shirts. For me, that spot tends to warm up uncomfortably. Don't know why it does it, but it is irritating.