What to do? Badges?!? What to do with stinking BADGES?

[Major Carrales]

So, you are at a regional airport, lots of commercial traffic.  You are on a CAP mission...you land and are securing the aircraft when airport police approach you.  "Where is your TSA approved badge required to be worn on the outmost layer of clothing at all times?"  They ask.  "We don't have them we understood we could walk from the airport to our facility without needing one."  "Well, would you like one?  Y'all are approved to get them if you are active CAP, just take our course and we can get you one provided its for CAP use and you agree to all the rights and responsibilities attached to it?"  "Sure?"

Your CAP unit meets at a school or university.  All authorized adults or faculty/staff/sponsor members must wear a security badge at all times when on a school activity or on the school grounds. 

Problem...such badges are not in CAPM 39-1?  What to do?  Find a new meeting place to do CAP since the badge would violate regulations?  Do the CAP meeting in Civilian Clothes since the badges violate regulations...but host the meeting out or regulations?  Have the activities anyway without the badges and risk whatever punishment TSA, School authorities, University Police and other officials.

Comments?  Solutions?

[Eclipse]

How are these any different than a 101 card?  This is simply "equipment" required to perform the mission.

I don't see the issue, other than the situations (as we have all too often), where members wear their 101's all the time as
if that means something.

[Major Carrales]

How are these any different than a 101 card?  This is simply "equipment" required to perform the mission.

I don't see the issue, other than the situations (as we have all too often), where members wear their 101's all the time as
if that means something.

Interesting...on FACEBOOK it was a sure thing that you would have another opinion on the matter.  I agree with you here.  If they are required to accomplish the mission, they have  a purpose beyond the scope of the Manual.

[lordmonar]

Really?

The reg does not address badges....so what do we do?

Major C.  This is what I hate about reg hounds.....you get so locked up in the "but it's not in the regulations" you can't function.

Wear the stinking badges!  If you need a reg....do a local policy letter and move on!

If anyone.....and I mean anyone... has the stupidity to even suggest to you that "ID Badges are not authorised in 29-1" send them to me and I will set him straight.

[Persona non grata]

Common sense

[Eclipse]

How are these any different than a 101 card?  This is simply "equipment" required to perform the mission.

I don't see the issue, other than the situations (as we have all too often), where members wear their 101's all the time as
if that means something.

Interesting...on FACEBOOK it was a sure thing that you would have another opinion on the matter.  I agree with you here.  If they are required to accomplish the mission, they have  a purpose beyond the scope of the Manual.

I honestly have no idea where you're going here.

[cap235629]

Sparky I was just busting your chops!

I agree with you and I am just as shocked with Eclipses response!

[lordmonar]

How are these any different than a 101 card?  This is simply "equipment" required to perform the mission.

I don't see the issue, other than the situations (as we have all too often), where members wear their 101's all the time as
if that means something.

Interesting...on FACEBOOK it was a sure thing that you would have another opinion on the matter.  I agree with you here.  If they are required to accomplish the mission, they have  a purpose beyond the scope of the Manual.

I honestly have no idea where you're going here.

See your comments about boonie hats.

[N Harmon]

When and where are these ID badges required to be worn? This is the first I've heard of needing one. 

[Eclipse]

Ugh.

I don't consider ID Badges as having anything to do with the uniforms, and we are already required to wear them in the form of 101's in
some situations.  This is just one more in the stack of playing cards most of us carry.

Since boonies are not required to perform the mission, I don't see the connection.

[SarDragon]

I'm with Pat here. When I was at our common assignment location, there was a 'red line' area on the airfield, where you had to have a 'steenking badge' to enter or transit. This was an AF rule. I was Navy. It doesn't say anything in Navy Uni Regs about no steenking badges. We got them, and wore them inside the red line area.

There were many other military folks working up at Pat's work area who also wore badges. No big deal. Next time you go to the Pentagon, you'll see a badge on every person in the building. That's been procedure since at least 1977.

I also recall wearing badges for various other CAP visits to secure areas - FAA TRACON, USMC aircraft simulators, etc. It's a fact of life, and nothing to get your undies in a wad over.

[Major Carrales]

Eclipse, this post is in response to a FACEBOOK posting on a photo of me in uniform with a bearded dragon on me.  Bill, no problem...this has been an issue I have been meaning to bring up, your comment just got me interested in posting it.  I know you were joking 

The badges are not universal problems, but I have run into them in the two situations involved.  Maybe there should be a standard policy on there to wear them in the regulations...I would suggest below the nametag clipped to the pocket flap.

As to the "Eclipse Response" it would seem that many people see you as a sort of "REG Fascist," be it a joke or a true preception.  I have found your posts to be a balance between squashing the ridiculous and a firm footing in common sense.

[cap235629]

OH Come on!

My "Gospel according to Eclipse" comment was HILARIOUS!!!!!!

[RiverAux]

I don't really see that these are significantly different than the ICS position badges CAP members often wear on their uniforms that i don't think anyone has ever complained about.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to put a statement allowing temporary wear of such badges under certain conditions into a revamped 39-1 though. 

[Eclipse]

As to the "Eclipse Response" it would seem that many people see you as a sort of "REG Fascist," be it a joke or a true preception.  I have found your posts to be a balance between squashing the ridiculous and a firm footing in common sense.

Danke - though I think National Socialist is closer to the truth.

[Major Carrales]

As to the "Eclipse Response" it would seem that many people see you as a sort of "REG Fascist," be it a joke or a true preception.  I have found your posts to be a balance between squashing the ridiculous and a firm footing in common sense.

Danke - though I think National Socialist is closer to the truth.

Just trying to dodge "Godwin."  Mussolini, also, gets left out of 21st Century metaphor in favor of his toothbrush mostachioed geographic contemporary too much.

[lordmonar]

See this is where I get all up set.

Who cares where you wear the stupid things?

Some places, like the flight line, it makes more sense to wear them on a lanyard other places lanyards make no sense.

If you just have to have uniformity......tell your guys....right side on the pocket....and be done with it.  No need to make a national mandate that it MUST be on the right side.....or in your arm pit.  Because as soon as you do you make it difficult for someone else where their issuing authority says left side on the belt or on a lanyard or in a special ID holder, or on your arm in a cuff case.

Too many places with too many rules.....and it is other people's rules we are dealing with here.

So no national regulation on ID badges please.

[Major Carrales]

OH Come on!

My "Gospel according to Eclipse" comment was HILARIOUS!!!!!!

That is was...."Eclipse, Prophet of the CAP Testament!!!"

[Extremepredjudice]

Leave them on during classes/break/to and from vehicles

Take them off during formation, inspection, and other formal stuff...

You could hang them anywhere, just choose one spot and enforce it. Continuity is king.

If someone is like "we need a reg or we can't wear them" tell them breathing isn't in the regs.

[Major Carrales]

If someone is like "we need a reg or we can't wear them" tell them breathing isn't in the regs.

"Are you sure you don't wanna rephrase that, Laddie?"  -Montgomery Scott, "The Trouble with Tribbles"

Careful with statements like that, they are a slippery slope.

[Eclipse]

That is was...."Eclipse, Prophet of the CAP Testament!!!"

Heh - awesome.

[Extremepredjudice]

If someone is like "we need a reg or we can't wear them" tell them breathing isn't in the regs.

"Are you sure you don't wanna rephrase that, Laddie?"  -Montgomery Scott, "The Trouble with Tribbles"

Careful with statements like that, they are a slippery slope.

Hehe, if they pass out, tell them you were joking.

[SarDragon]

The badges are not universal problems, but I have run into them in the two situations involved.  Maybe there should be a standard policy on there to wear them in the regulations...I would suggest below the nametag clipped to the pocket flap.

Badges are worn where the issuing authority says to wear them. Some have lanyards, others are clip/pin on. "When in Rome..."

[JC004]

When and where are these ID badges required to be worn? This is the first I've heard of needing one. 

Airport sterile areas.  You've seen the TSA's blue badges?  That's them.  I have one (on my super-cool holder that I got at the CIA gift shop and I like because it's one of those retractable kinds for swiping or getting flashed with the silly handheld UV lights the TSA has).

I say CAP fall back to Air Force guidance here.  NHQ does that with things like mini-medal configuration, where CAP does not provide guidance.  It was only brought up a few uniform boards ago, so I believe it was after the CAP manual was published.  I remember it coming up.  It has been added to the new AFI.

6.3.5. Lanyards/Access Passes/Identification Badges/Common Access Cards (CAC). Lanyards will be plain, solid black or dark-blue, silver small conservative link chains or clear plastic. Green lanyards are only authorized with the ABU or BDU. Only small DoD/USAF logos are authorized on the garment clip of retractable lanyards, other logos are not permitted anywhere on the lanyard. Access passes, identification badges, and common access cards are only authorized for wear when required within the confines of the location for which they were issued. When worn, they will be worn on the front of the body above the waist and below the neck and must not present a safety hazard.

[flyboy53]

So, you are at a regional airport, lots of commercial traffic.  You are on a CAP mission...you land and are securing the aircraft when airport police approach you.  "Where is your TSA approved badge required to be worn on the outmost layer of clothing at all times?"  They ask.  "We don't have them we understood we could walk from the airport to our facility without needing one."  "Well, would you like one?  Y'all are approved to get them if you are active CAP, just take our course and we can get you one provided its for CAP use and you agree to all the rights and responsibilities attached to it?"  "Sure?"

Your CAP unit meets at a school or university.  All authorized adults or faculty/staff/sponsor members must wear a security badge at all times when on a school activity or on the school grounds. 

Problem...such badges are not in CAPM 39-1?  What to do?  Find a new meeting place to do CAP since the badge would violate regulations?  Do the CAP meeting in Civilian Clothes since the badges violate regulations...but host the meeting out or regulations?  Have the activities anyway without the badges and risk whatever punishment TSA, School authorities, University Police and other officials.

Comments?  Solutions?

You're over-reacting. The simple solution is to take an ID card and put it in a holder worn on a clip or lanyard.

I'd check with the airport manager or school/university administration to see if that is acceptable. Otherwise, find out what the airport or school needs and then check with wing to see who will pay for it.

In my wing, that's how it's done.

It works the same for me officially, I'm a state program manager.

[Larry Mangum]

There is no need for a regulation here nor an ICL.  As Pat stated, people in the Air Force wear secuirty badges all of the time, and guess what it is not in the uniform OI.  You simply clipped one on your pocket or wear it around your neck on a lanyard. End of story.

[JC004]

...
and guess what it is not in the uniform OI.  You simply clipped one on your pocket or wear it around your neck on a lanyard. End of story.

huh?  quoted above.

[Larry Mangum]

...
and guess what it is not in the uniform OI.  You simply clipped one on your pocket or wear it around your neck on a lanyard. End of story.

huh?  quoted above.

Sorry meant AFI 36-2903

[JC004]

...
and guess what it is not in the uniform OI.  You simply clipped one on your pocket or wear it around your neck on a lanyard. End of story.

huh?  quoted above.

Sorry meant AFI 36-2903

I'm confused.  That is where the quote is from.

[SarDragon]

Larry, there's a new edition on the street. The quote above is from there, with specific mention of what's permitted, and not.