Most common cadet haircut?

Started by T8nker, January 21, 2017, 01:49:58 AM

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T8nker

What is the most common haircut that you see male cadets get? Almost everyone I've seen in GA wing has a high and tight. What are the ones for other wings?

etodd

Check out a few Facebook pages of Squadrons in various states and you'll see a variety.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

While you'll see plenty of them, a "high and tight" is generally an unnecessary affectation.

I have always discouraged cadets from anything but "normal" civilian style haircuts.

"That Others May Zoom"

RazorbackPride

They all look like one of the Beatles.

Luis R. Ramos

How can you see squadron Facebook pages when you try to access them, you are asked for a password? And the implication being that this password must be assigned by the squadron itself! I am not going to request access to a squadron website that is not my squadron.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

^ Are logged into a Facebook account?  You generally have to be, which is one of my
ongoing complaints about CAP using it for cadets, since our youngest ones aren't allowed to access it.

"That Others May Zoom"

Luis R. Ramos

So again, the suggestion made by a member to "see a squadron's webpage for cadet haircut photos" is not workable...

???

My God, every now and then I see squadron webpages I am interested for several reasons. Unable to get there, as contacting them for access, then waiting for it is too much of a hurdle for me. It also defeats the purpose of having a webpage for people interested in learning about the CAP if it will be expected from them to request passwords...

:-\
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

To be fair, Facebook is not a "webpage" per se, it's a marketing platform.

With that said, units should be aware of access issue if they think they are reaching their audience.

"That Others May Zoom"

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: RazorbackPride on January 21, 2017, 03:39:39 AM
They all look like one of the Beatles.

This is true way too frequent when I attend CAP events. Do units actually enforce haircuts?

Spam

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 21, 2017, 04:35:26 AM
Quote from: RazorbackPride on January 21, 2017, 03:39:39 AM
They all look like one of the Beatles.

This is true way too frequent when I attend CAP events. Do units actually enforce haircuts?


... do units not?  In 35 years, I don't think I've ever been in one where we didn't. Of course, that's self selecting... I'd either not join a unit that didn't follow uniform/grooming regs, OR, I would lead from the front and make it conform.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man". - George Bernard Shaw


V/r
Spam


Spam

Quote from: T8nker on January 21, 2017, 01:49:58 AM
What is the most common haircut that you see male cadets get? Almost everyone I've seen in GA wing has a high and tight. What are the ones for other wings?


Haircuts are cheaper over the line here in Georgia. Its a "right to work" state for barbers and such.


Move to Georgia, and get yourself a nice clean cut... it will change you from a Democrat to a Republican in 30 seconds, and attract a higher grade of young lady than in your Beatles phase.   ;D


No, seriously... we absolutely don't require high and tights. GA045 for one has several guys (including the cadet commander) who are short on the sides and back and a little longer on the top, David Beckham style. It looks good on them. I've seen some nice maintenance free cuts around, though.


V/r
Spam

PS, I've been thinking about reinstituting the "Vermillion Lip Combat 'Stache" moustache competition at the FROSTBITE exercise... prizes for the best grown '80s style deployment moustache.  Special prize for any females sporting same. Sound good?




TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Spam on January 21, 2017, 04:46:49 AM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 21, 2017, 04:35:26 AM
Quote from: RazorbackPride on January 21, 2017, 03:39:39 AM
They all look like one of the Beatles.

This is true way too frequent when I attend CAP events. Do units actually enforce haircuts?


... do units not?  In 35 years, I don't think I've ever been in one where we didn't. Of course, that's self selecting... I'd either not join a unit that didn't follow uniform/grooming regs, OR, I would lead from the front and make it conform.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man". - George Bernard Shaw


V/r
Spam



I absolutely agree with you here. I have some minor struggles in the home unit enforcing grooming standards, but they get addressed firmly. But I have seen other local units, to include attending Wing conferences and other Wind-hosted training events, where it's a regularly recurrence to see the same cadets time and again out of compliance, often times with parents as senior members who don't seem to have a clue (I'm talking oak leaves---I can't believe it's not butter!). I often seen female officers with haircuts well out of regs in some fairly prominent positions.

Where is the systemic issue rooting from?

Someone explain to me, please, how a Lt Col can run a cadet program and 5 out of 10 cadets have bangs or look like they just hatched from a chicken's egg; or how a Major can wear her hair well past her shoulder line without any ranking officer bringing it up when Full Birds are standing right next to her? I'm very confused here. I've never seen this ever until CAP.


Quote from: Spam on January 21, 2017, 04:57:47 AM
PS, I've been thinking about reinstituting the "Vermillion Lip Combat 'Stache" moustache competition at the FROSTBITE exercise... prizes for the best grown '80s style deployment moustache.  Special prize for any females sporting same. Sound good?

I know several top contenders that would likely be very much offended if I entered them into the charade on their behalf.


Spam


Well, you know, Hornet, bangs are not noncompliant. I'm pretty sure. Check me on this, and let me know (which is my standard challenge to my cadets and helps them learn to go by the regs while helping me update to the ever present changes).


The systemic issue is that we have a civilian group here run along rather complex paramilitary lines, that attracts a certain percentage of "cosplayer" types who like the notion and self image of wearing military uniforms even as they're not willing to (or aren't smart enough to understand how to) adhere to the standards to do so. Many of those who don't understand the weight and grooming and uniform standards can be self delusional about their weight, hair, etc. This, coupled with amateur volunteer leadership that (a) is also largely addicted to the costume play issues, (b) are themselves self delusional as to their own fitness and grooming compliance, and (c) motivated to be "good guys" and don't want to be seen as jerks by sending people home when they're in USAF style and noncompliant.


Everyone wants to be admired and respected and liked. That's a GOOD, NORMAL, HUMAN THING. Many gain that through appearance of affiliation with USAF uniforms. Some gain that as leaders by enabling people to wear what makes them happy (without regard to regulations) because their definition of leadership is making their people happy.  The hard choice is the George Patton choice - to be a jerk that holds to standards, not because you enjoy being a jerk, but because the standards themselves matter more to unit cohesion and effectiveness in the long run than the self delusional uniform wear does in the short term.


Just my opinion, of course. I was within standards until probably five years ago. I self deluded until about probably three years ago, when I saw pics of myself from the side and applied my same commanders standards to myself, where after all, I'd only previously seen myself in a mirror. I realized that I'd drifted into being a hypocritical fool. My lesson learned was that you have to consciously break that self delusion barrier, and understand as a leader that having the guts to speak to your people ON THE SPOT about being compliant is sometimes (long term) showing as much servant leadership love as letting people slide. Just don't let the "being right" translate into "being a needless inhumane martinet" when enforcing standards.


V/r,
Spam


LATORRECA

I asked parents to bring their kid with clean edges once a month. Just to comply With the regulations

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk


etodd

Set the example, if you want anyone to listen.

A leader who is so overweight he is bulging out of his uniform, should never criticize a Cadet for any appearance issues.

A leader who 'does' set a fine example .... is in a better position to command respect and get results.

JMHO
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

TheSkyHornet

^ We made this very address just last week.

"Is your hair within regulation?"
"I didn't get a chance to get a haircut this week."
"So, we've addressed this before. You're the flight sergeant. How can you conduct a uniform inspection and address one of your subordinates' haircuts, and you know who I'm referring to in the other room right now, when your haircut is out of regulation?"
"Can you explain to me how it is how of regs?"
"Can you go into the restroom and look in the mirror? Here is the uniform manual. I want you to find the section on haircuts and let me know what the regulation says."

The kid quit two days later.

It is what it is, but this is just constant with some people. I talked to the SSgt over dinner the day the cadet dropped (I actually received an email that he resigned on the way to dinner). He made a very good point: "I think a big problem is that with the seniors who want to play paramilitary, but don't actually have that experience of really being held to certain standards, it's not that they don't agree or disagree with the regulations. In their mind, it's not a big deal, and they can just adjust the regulations as they apply because it suits their ideas of how the standards should be."

I think a lot of senior members fail to understand the influence they have on cadets, and it creates a culture where Cadet X goes "Senior Member Y's hair is out of regs, so why should I be held to it?" Then, Cadet X sets that tone for Cadet Z, and it just evolves.

It's so hard to constantly remind people about uniform discrepancies without making them feel like they're being hounded and continually picked on. It's a major retention issue. But at the same time, the regulations still need to be upheld. This is an organization that has a certain requirement on appearance, and if someone doesn't like it, perhaps this is the wrong organization for them. We don't want to lose quality people who can really benefit from this organization, as well as us benefiting from them, while at the same time, there still need to be an adherence to the standards we have (which we don't bend just to satisfy someone's wishes because they don't like them).

Eclipse

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 26, 2017, 08:32:21 PM
It is what it is, but this is just constant with some people. I talked to the SSgt over dinner the day the cadet dropped (I actually received an email that he resigned on the way to dinner). He made a very good point: "I think a big problem is that with the seniors who want to play paramilitary, but don't actually have that experience of really being held to certain standards, it's not that they don't agree or disagree with the regulations. In their mind, it's not a big deal, and they can just adjust the regulations as they apply because it suits their ideas of how the standards should be."

Very true.

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 26, 2017, 08:32:21 PM
It's so hard to constantly remind people about uniform discrepancies without making them feel like they're being hounded and continually picked on.

I gently disagree, only to the point that if you set the tone of discreet, good-natured correction, and make yourself an SME on the issue,
no one should take it as being singled out or picked on.  Also, adults really shouldn't need to be corrected more then once on something,
especially in a CAP context.

If you throw an ashtray and / or ridicule people, or much much worse, exhibit a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude, then
it will be a retention issue and with good cause (actually your retention should be an issue).  I have no issue whatsoever getting
caught in a mistake by another member, and on the odd night I get something wrong, I usually point it out to the group as a teachable moment.

Some of it comes down to the reality that people don't join an organization to have uncomfortable conversations or hassle their buddies, not realizing they are actually
making things worse by fudging or ignoring.

"That Others May Zoom"

Toad1168

Quote from: Eclipse on January 26, 2017, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 26, 2017, 08:32:21 PM
It is what it is, but this is just constant with some people. I talked to the SSgt over dinner the day the cadet dropped (I actually received an email that he resigned on the way to dinner). He made a very good point: "I think a big problem is that with the seniors who want to play paramilitary, but don't actually have that experience of really being held to certain standards, it's not that they don't agree or disagree with the regulations. In their mind, it's not a big deal, and they can just adjust the regulations as they apply because it suits their ideas of how the standards should be."

Very true.

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 26, 2017, 08:32:21 PM
It's so hard to constantly remind people about uniform discrepancies without making them feel like they're being hounded and continually picked on.

I gently disagree, only to the point that if you set the tone of discreet, good-natured correction, and make yourself an SME on the issue,
no one should take it as being singled out or picked on.  Also, adults really shouldn't need to be corrected more then once on something,
especially in a CAP context.

If you throw an ashtray and / or ridicule people, or much much worse, exhibit a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude, then
it will be a retention issue and with good cause (actually your retention should be an issue).  I have no issue whatsoever getting
caught in a mistake by another member, and on the odd night I get something wrong, I usually point it out to the group as a teachable moment.

Some of it comes down to the reality that people don't join an organization to have uncomfortable conversations or hassle their buddies, not realizing they are actually
making things worse by fudging or ignoring.

"The do as I say, not as I do" is what troubles me the most.  Yes we have the corporate uniforms for those SMs unable or unwilling to wear the USAF style.  I have absolutely no problem with those uniforms being worn.  What drives me crazy is the attitude that because it is the corporate uniform, that there are no grooming standards that some exhibit.  Now, I realize that they are relaxed.  But when you look at it in a Cadet Programs light, the message it sends is contradictory.  The cadets don't necessarily look at the uniform as being different.  Only that a SM officer orders them to comply to grooming standards when clearly they do not.
Toad

Toad1168

And, for the record, mine's a high and tight.  Just figured I'd chime in even though my cadet days are long past.
Toad

Spaceman3750

Quote from: Toad1168 on January 26, 2017, 09:03:03 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 26, 2017, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 26, 2017, 08:32:21 PM
It is what it is, but this is just constant with some people. I talked to the SSgt over dinner the day the cadet dropped (I actually received an email that he resigned on the way to dinner). He made a very good point: "I think a big problem is that with the seniors who want to play paramilitary, but don't actually have that experience of really being held to certain standards, it's not that they don't agree or disagree with the regulations. In their mind, it's not a big deal, and they can just adjust the regulations as they apply because it suits their ideas of how the standards should be."

Very true.

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 26, 2017, 08:32:21 PM
It's so hard to constantly remind people about uniform discrepancies without making them feel like they're being hounded and continually picked on.

I gently disagree, only to the point that if you set the tone of discreet, good-natured correction, and make yourself an SME on the issue,
no one should take it as being singled out or picked on.  Also, adults really shouldn't need to be corrected more then once on something,
especially in a CAP context.

If you throw an ashtray and / or ridicule people, or much much worse, exhibit a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude, then
it will be a retention issue and with good cause (actually your retention should be an issue).  I have no issue whatsoever getting
caught in a mistake by another member, and on the odd night I get something wrong, I usually point it out to the group as a teachable moment.

Some of it comes down to the reality that people don't join an organization to have uncomfortable conversations or hassle their buddies, not realizing they are actually
making things worse by fudging or ignoring.

"The do as I say, not as I do" is what troubles me the most.  Yes we have the corporate uniforms for those SMs unable or unwilling to wear the USAF style.  I have absolutely no problem with those uniforms being worn.  What drives me crazy is the attitude that because it is the corporate uniform, that there are no grooming standards that some exhibit.  Now, I realize that they are relaxed.  But when you look at it in a Cadet Programs light, the message it sends is contradictory.  The cadets don't necessarily look at the uniform as being different.  Only that a SM officer orders them to comply to grooming standards when clearly they do not.

There are no (facial/cranial) grooming standards for the corporate uniform. That's why the uniform exists.