The following is only one idea (amongst many)... just food for thought and discussion.
It may still be some time yet... before the Civil Air Patrol adopts a version of the OCP uniform. Nevertheless, some photographs posted online (of the South Carolina State Guard) shows what might be a possible way that C.A.P. could also wear the OCP uniform:
1.) dark air force blue name tapes... with silver lettering (same as those used on current ABU and BBDU).
2.) OCP camouflage rank patch in the center of the shirt/jacket.
Looking at the way that South Carolina's defense force wore the uniform gives a clear example of what it would look like. The photographs can be found on the following web page:
(click the link below)...
https://statedefenseforce.com/main/2021/05/27/sc-state-guard-soldier-receives-fbi-community-leadership-award/ (https://statedefenseforce.com/main/2021/05/27/sc-state-guard-soldier-receives-fbi-community-leadership-award/)
This has been beat to death both here and on reddit. The proposal is at HQAF working its way through channels. It will be whatever the proposal says+whatever changes HQAF dictates. Just be patient and see what comes down the pike.
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 22, 2024, 03:13:20 PMThis has been beat to death both here and on reddit. The proposal is at HQAF working its way through channels. It will be whatever the proposal says+whatever changes HQAF dictates. Just be patient and see what comes down the pike.
When 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.
Walt, don't stop me mid-swing, I'm trying to hit the horse, it's not dead enough! ;D
That being said, we already have everything we need to transition to OCPs. Nametape, CAP-Tape, and Rank patch all exist in Silver on Blue with Velcro.
Full-color Flag and most CAP Patches exist with Velcro as well.
Sew-on Rank and Badges in Silver on Blue, again, already exist as well.
The only thing HQ-USAF needs to dictate is tee-shirt color (Coyote, Black or Dark Navy-blue) and boot color (Coyote, Black or both).
Any of the options laid out will look fine and professional, yet provide a clear differentiation from our counterparts in the USAF.
Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 04:06:26 PMThat being said, we already have everything we need to transition to OCPs. Nametape, CAP-Tape, and Rank patch all exist in Silver on Blue with Velcro.
Basically, this.
There's almost no need to create any more SKUs unless we go with embroidered cadet enlisted insginia. We have 98+% of it already.
Quoteembroidered cadet enlisted insignia
They might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 22, 2024, 03:13:20 PMThis has been beat to death both here and on reddit. The proposal is at HQAF working its way through channels. It will be whatever the proposal says+whatever changes HQAF dictates. Just be patient and see what comes down the pike.
@HandsomeWalt:
Agree with this completely! Whatever is worked out & decided upon... we will wear.
Just sharing ideas & thoughts. (noticed it on a website while surfing the internet)
priority when it comes to uniforms... is utility. the precise colors (or shades of colors) are almost always a secondary detail... especially for a civilian / non-combat entity such as Civil Air Patrol.
(Personally, for outdoor work... I'm a fan of the same clothes that I wear to go camping or fishing)
Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 07:40:47 PMThey might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.
And pinning metal cadet rank on a blank tab that's then going to be attached directly over your sternum? Ehhhh. I think there's better ways to do that.
I've never understood the blank rank square. They could have pinned directly to the velcro OR offered embroidered cadet enlisted rank insignia with ease. Yeah, it's one more thing for Cadets to buy but it's not a massive expense.
Where I have seen the blank square used with metal grade insignia usually the pins were bent over.
Yes one time use but the danger of injury is much less.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but cadet rank is sold in pairs, yes? So unless a cadet has a goretex as well as a fleece, they're paying for two additional pins, one pair, instead of buying one single embroidered insignia. This just seems like a sensible change we could make with the OCP transition. Cadets could purchase the exact amount of insignia they need for various garments. Don't mind me, just thinking out loud now.
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 06:44:57 PMQuote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 04:06:26 PMThat being said, we already have everything we need to transition to OCPs. Nametape, CAP-Tape, and Rank patch all exist in Silver on Blue with Velcro.
Basically, this.
There's almost no need to create any more SKUs unless we go with embroidered cadet enlisted insginia. We have 98+% of it already.
this is very true!
Quote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 07:40:47 PMQuoteembroidered cadet enlisted insignia
They might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.
Possibly cheaper, but a WHOLE lot less convenient. We had sew-on rank WIWAC, and it was a real pain, even considering the less frequent promotion intervals. The sewing jobs were inconsistent, and positioning was hit and miss.
On top of that, the sew-on stripes weren't as reusable as the pin-on rank. Once sewn on, washed a few times, and given an ironed-in crease, they weren't easily removed and reused on another cadet's uniform.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 24, 2024, 11:38:59 AMQuote from: Shuman 14 on March 22, 2024, 07:40:47 PMQuoteembroidered cadet enlisted insignia
They might be cheaper in the long run and less likely to get damaged on a field uniform.
Possibly cheaper, but a WHOLE lot less convenient. We had sew-on rank WIWAC, and it was a real pain, even considering the less frequent promotion intervals. The sewing jobs were inconsistent, and positioning was hit and miss.
On top of that, the sew-on stripes weren't as reusable as the pin-on rank. Once sewn on, washed a few times, and given an ironed-in crease, they weren't easily removed and reused on another cadet's uniform.
I think you're think of something different. I believe the discussion of embroidered cadet stripes is they are embroidered on a fabric square with a velcro backing to put on the OCP tab for grade insignia, like the military does, not sew-on the sleeves.
Quote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 03:59:42 PMWhen 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.
Does "all" mean that some members (i.e. Wing/Regions CCs) already know what the changes are?
Quote from: ML07 on March 24, 2024, 10:52:38 PMQuote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 03:59:42 PMWhen 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.
Does "all" mean that some members (i.e. Wing/Regions CCs) already know what the changes are?
I'm sure that some members within the NUC, Command Council, etc already have an inkling what is in the proposal. That's irrelevant. What is finally decided and disseminated to the wider membership will be made known at the appropriate time.
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 24, 2024, 11:29:14 PMQuote from: ML07 on March 24, 2024, 10:52:38 PMQuote from: NIN on March 22, 2024, 03:59:42 PMWhen 39-1 drops with the changes, we'll all know what they are.
Does "all" mean that some members (i.e. Wing/Regions CCs) already know what the changes are?
I'm sure that some members within the NUC, Command Council, etc already have an inkling what is in the proposal. That's irrelevant. What is finally decided and disseminated to the wider membership will be made known at the appropriate time.
I literally shared what was in the DRAFT copy in the other thread (Winter Command Council). 90% of the information going around is incorrect RUMINT.
Again, OCPs with same (current) color scheme for all insignia with coyote colored boots. As of 1 March it wasn't even sitting with the AF, nor had it been reviewed by CAP/CC. Once it is reviewed and endorsed, THEN it'll go to the AF for consideration.
Once again, this was at the uniform breakout session at the Winter Command Council with about 25 others sitting there, including the CAP/XO and three members of the NUC.
OCPs are coming, unless someone puts a stop to them OR someone denies the current DRAFT. When? Could be six months, could be 18 months. That is what we do not know.
Quote from: HandsomeWalt_USMC on March 23, 2024, 09:04:32 PMI've never understood the blank rank square. They could have pinned directly to the velcro OR offered embroidered cadet enlisted rank insignia with ease. Yeah, it's one more thing for Cadets to buy but it's not a massive expense.
As a SMWOG, a bank square is what I wear on my winter coat and on my plate carrier/gear vest when in the field.