Tips for a large transfer

[tn485]

Please forgive me if this is in the wrong section, I thought this was the best fit.

First I'll give a little background:

I joined CAP as a cadet two years ago as a member of a large cadet squadron in Tennessee. There were roughly 7 active senior members, and about 30 active cadets.  There were about 40-45 people on the roster. Now fast forward to January 2013.  Our squadron is notified of a new rule requiring squadron commanders to step down after 4 years of service, effective immediately.  We were given until 1 March to be in compliance.  As luck would have it, our commander had just reached four years in mid January, which meant he would have to be replaced.  There were about six active senior members in addition to the commander, and two of them were willing to step up and fill the position.  Unfortunately, one was a chaplain and therefore not allowed to be commander, and the other was denied the position for various unknown reasons.  Back to the drawing board. 

Since it was obvious that no one from the squadron could become unit commander, our former commander, whom we all would have liked to keep, applied for command of another area squadron that had the position open.  Within a month he had been assigned as commander at the other squadron, which left the rest of us in an unusual situation.  What many cadets did not know, was that our meeting place was contingent upon the commander.  When the commander moves on, we have to find a new meeting place.  Great.  Now we have no commander and no meeting place, and we were already meeting in the middle of nowhere which left zero nearby alternatives.  After a couple weeks, TNWG did bring in a commander for our squadron, who located a meeting place for us in a large church about 15 miles away from the current meeting location.  What we find out now, is that most of the members were driving from the opposite direction (myself included) and simply refused to drive any farther. 

That left the majority of us with three options:
1) Quit CAP altogether
2) Drive father to be under a commander that we barely knew
3) Transfer to a closer squadron, which our former commander was in charge of

About 75% of the cadets chose option 3.

So, now we find out that the squadron we chose to transfer to had only 19 members on the roster (about half were cadets) and average attendance was only about 6 people (cadets and senior members).  Imagine their surprise when 28 extra cadets showed up to this week's meeting! 

Now, where we are, is that when so many cadets and seniors transferred at once, their squadron grew by about six times immediately.  That's no big deal, they seemed happy to have us there, even though the meeting space is tight.  The ones of us that have just joined, however, find ourselves in a sort of awkward position.  We are afraid that it looks like we came in to take over, which is not at all what we want to do.  We want to join the squadron that was already established.  At our first meeting together, it was determined that the current staff (both cadet and senior) would remain in their current positions until they voluntarily stepped down.  We made it clear that we are all going to follow their rules, keep their traditions, and do as the staff wishes. 

Our question to you:

What can we do to make this big change as seamless as possible?  What should we be doing so that it doesn't look like we came in to take over, but rather to be a part of their existing squadron?  The last thing we want to do is run people off.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give us!

[RogueLeader]

First, thank you for asking for help.

Second, you need to be in contact with your chain of command , and let your current squadron commander know that you are unhappy with the current situation, and that you are looking to transfer.

Third, let the gaining unit decide how they want to process any transfers- there are two options, one in E-Services, and two is filling out many CAPF2's.  (I recommend the first option.)

Fourth, realize that you could be killing off a unit by everybody leaving.

Fifth,  I STRONGLY suggest you give your new commander some time.  He might be better than the squadron commander you know.  You won't find out if you don't try.

[Eclipse]

I'd ask why the commander who clearly failed at the first squadron was allowed to assume command of another squadron. "Luck" had nothing to do with this.  The former Commander's
lack of the ability to read a calendar and do the requisite transition and contingency planning is the issue.  Further the term limits are not intended to be "Musical Commander Chairs".

The Chaplain could certainly step down as that role and assume command, happens all the time.  That was just a handy excuse to not do it.

And as to those who "voted with their feet" - the bell is tolling for all of them.

[tn485]

I appreciate your prompt response. 

I apologize, I should have been more clear as to where I am personally.

Second and Third are already done.  My transfer in eServices just went through this week.

Forth - I transferred out for two reasons.  The main reason and deciding factor was that I was already driving almost an hour each way to the meetings and am simply not willing to drive the extra distance.  I realize completely what could happen, but it's just not possible for many of us to remain members there. 

It was discussed between myself and several close friends (also cadets) at great lengths the consequences of us transferring out.  However, we eventually came to the conclusion that because of drive time and distance, we were left with the options of quit or transfer.  Staying with the current squadron was just not possible.

[tn485]

I'd ask why the commander who clearly failed at the first squadron was allowed to assume command of another squadron. "Luck" had nothing to do with this.  The former Commander's
lack of the ability to read a calendar and do the requisite transition and contingency planning is the issue.  Further the term limits are not intended to be "Musical Commander Chairs".

He did not "Clearly Fail".  Read my original post.

The squadron commander chartered that squadron four years ago.  It was the second largest cadet unit in the wing, and received the Quality Cadet Unit Award three years in a row.  The squadron kept growing, and member retention was excellent.  Does that sound like a failure to you?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Eclipse-

There appears to be a mandate that no squadron commander can stay more than 3 years as a commander.

The squadron in question had a commander that was in that position for 4 years. Whether he was successful or not was not relevant. He had to go. That is how he left one for the other...

Flyer

[Eclipse]

I'd ask why the commander who clearly failed at the first squadron was allowed to assume command of another squadron. "Luck" had nothing to do with this.  The former Commander's
lack of the ability to read a calendar and do the requisite transition and contingency planning is the issue.  Further the term limits are not intended to be "Musical Commander Chairs".

He did not "Clearly Fail".  Read my original post.

The squadron commander chartered that squadron four years ago.  It was the second largest cadet unit in the wing, and received the Quality Cadet Unit Award three years in a row.  The squadron kept growing, and member retention was excellent.  Does that sound like a failure to you?

Yes, he clearly did, as did higher headquarters.  He was clearly running it as a "one man show", and is now a textbook example of why
this is a bad idea.  Term limits or no, a priority for a commander should be continuity and contingency in the even he can no longer serve in that
role.  After 4 years he still had zero plan in the event he became ill, left CAP, got a new job (internally or externally), etc., etc.

And your Group and Wing should have been more aware of the significant risk of having the "largest cadet squadron" being one person away from closing.
Worse still is that the very meeting place of the unit was dependent on the benevolence of a single member. 

Because of these failures, there are now two units in turmoil, when the transition should have been a relatively simple matter.

Examples like these are the specific reason why term limits have been needed for a long time.

[arajca]

I presume you had a sit down with the new unit to explain the circumstances and what you are and are not planning to do.

Other than that, it appears you've done what you can until your actions demonstrate what you've said.

[Eclipse]

There appears to be a mandate that no squadron commander can stay more than 3 years as a commander.

It is national policy.

[tn485]

I'd ask why the commander who clearly failed at the first squadron was allowed to assume command of another squadron. "Luck" had nothing to do with this.  The former Commander's
lack of the ability to read a calendar and do the requisite transition and contingency planning is the issue.  Further the term limits are not intended to be "Musical Commander Chairs".

He did not "Clearly Fail".  Read my original post.

The squadron commander chartered that squadron four years ago.  It was the second largest cadet unit in the wing, and received the Quality Cadet Unit Award three years in a row.  The squadron kept growing, and member retention was excellent.  Does that sound like a failure to you?

Yes, he clearly did, as did higher headquarters.  He was clearly running it as a "one man show", and is now a textbook example of why
this is a bad idea.  Term limits or no, a priority for a commander should be continuity and contingency in the even he can no longer serve in that
role.  After 4 years he still had zero plan in the event he became ill, left CAP, got a new job (internally or externally), etc., etc.

And your Group and Wing should have been more aware of the significant risk of having the "largest cadet squadron" being one person away from closing.

Because of these failures, there are now two units in turmoil, when the transition should have been a relatively simple matter.

Examples like these are the specific reason why term limits have been needed for a long time.

You don't get it.  He had a huge amount of support from senior members, cadets, and cadet's parents.  The people that were willing to step up and fill the position were denied.  If you know everything (without having been here to see what our situation is like), maybe you should just come on out here and fix it yourself?

[Eclipse]

You don't get it.  He had a huge amount of support from senior members, cadets, and cadet's parents.  The people that were willing to step up and fill the position were denied.  If you know everything (without having been here to see what our situation is like), maybe you should just come on out here and fix it yourself?

Huge?

Two people, one of whom isn't technically able to take the job?  That's "huge"?   Where are the 30-60 parents whose cadets are benefiting from this program to
step up and support the unit when he left?

A better legacy of his support would have been that the unit continued to exist without him.  CAP is not supposed to be a cult of personality.

As to "fixing this", had I been in a position of influence or authority in the matter, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

[tn485]

You don't get it.  He had a huge amount of support from senior members, cadets, and cadet's parents.  The people that were willing to step up and fill the position were denied.  If you know everything (without having been here to see what our situation is like), maybe you should just come on out here and fix it yourself?

As to "fixing this", had I been in a position of influence or authority in the matter, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I have no reason to believe that what you say is true, unless you care to come over here and prove that you could do a better job.  You've already lost credibility with me. You weren't here, you don't know everything that went on behind the scenes, and quite frankly it's none of your business.  Not to mention that you never answered my original question, but instead turned this into another "bash the commander" session.

[tn485]

You don't get it.  He had a huge amount of support from senior members, cadets, and cadet's parents.  The people that were willing to step up and fill the position were denied.  If you know everything (without having been here to see what our situation is like), maybe you should just come on out here and fix it yourself?

Huge?

Two people, one of whom isn't technically able to take the job?  That's "huge"?   Where are the 30-60 parents whose cadets are benefiting from this program to
step up and support the unit when he left?

A better legacy of his support would have been that the unit continued to exist without him.  CAP is not supposed to be a cult of personality.

As to "fixing this", had I been in a position of influence or authority in the matter, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Just because they aren't all members, doesn't mean that he's not supported. 

[Eclipse]

I have no reason to believe that what you say is true, unless you care to come over here and prove that you could do a better job.  You've already lost credibility with me. You weren't here, you don't know everything that went on behind the scenes, and quite frankly it's none of your business.

When you have a minute, look up "straw man argument".  As to it being "my business", you brought this here, and "behind the scenes" CAP politics are also basically irrelevant, because
this is a completely objective situation.  The Commander leaves, for whatever reason, and the unit either thrives or it doesn't.  What happened here?  How people "feel" about it won't make
any difference if there's no unit.

Just because they aren't all members, doesn't mean that he's not supported.

If they aren't members, their support is somewhat irrelevant, as you've clearly indicated, since the unit essentially collapsed thanks to the exodus of all those who "supported" him.

CAP is about more then one unit or the personal experience of individual members, and when people fail to see that, the entire organisation, especially at a given wing level,
is negatively impacted.  One of the reasons we have higher HQ's is that they are supposed to be "managing" these situations, not just reacting when they happen.

[tn485]

One of the reasons we have higher HQ's is that they are supposed to be "managing" these situations, not just reacting when they happen.

Higher HQs CAUSED this situation.  We'd still be growing our squadron if it weren't for MGen Carr.

[Eclipse]

One of the reasons we have higher HQ's is that they are supposed to be "managing" these situations, not just reacting when they happen.

Higher HQs CAUSED this situation.  We'd still be growing our squadron if it weren't for MGen Carr.

I agree, in that they ignored all the risk factors and allowed the situation to exist.  No unit, especially the "largest cadet unit in the wing" should be at
risk for closure because one person leaves. 

You will not likely accept this until you have the chance to be in a position of management or command yourself.

[Duke Dillio]

Cadet, you need to stand down your tone.  You have absolutely no idea where Eclipse is going not to mention the fact that you are directly disrespecting a senior CAP officer. 

The fact of the matter is that Eclipse and I and any number of given members on this board have seen this situation play out time and time again.  This change did not come from MGen Carr but in fact started as a movement within the ranks some 10 years ago.  There were too many squadron commanders who, as good or bad as they might have been, did not allow their members to advance.  They built a good ole boy network and so if you weren't in their inner circle, you had a hard time doing anything in CAP.  You need to realize that being a squadron commander is THE most important role anywhere in CAP.  What you do or fail to do has immediate consequences to the CAP in your area and to the program as a whole.

A good squadron commander is always grooming his replacement.  It isn't about people volunteering to take the job when he/she is gone.  It's about training your possible replacement(s) from the day they join or from the day that you take command.  Having only two options in this case was clearly a "Fail" as every member of that squadron should have been ready to assume command.  Granted, there are some people that you would not desire to be in that position but it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be trained to do so if necessary.

Try taking a moment to absorb the information that is being presented versus acting or speaking out of emotion.

[Pylon]

Higher HQs CAUSED this situation.  We'd still be growing our squadron if it weren't for MGen Carr.

You've missed Eclipse's well-formed point.   Maj Gen Carr did not "cause this situation." One main responsibility of a commander is to identify and cultivate his or her replacement, from day one of command.  A unit must be able to survive one or two people leaving, because people will leave.  What if, God forbid, this individual had been hit by the proverbial bus or moved out of state?   You'd be in the same situation (a situation which was clearly not planned for; a major command error).

A well run squadron is never a one-man show.  Any squadron which thrives, but only does so because of one or two individuals, is not stable or sustainable.  It's the very nature of humanity; people will eventually move on for one reason or another.   If a unit does not plan for that eventuality from day 1, then it is not a sustainable and stable unit.  The reason why he left is completely irrelevant.

[FlyTiger77]

Well, this is certainly interesting reading.

[Duke Dillio]

You know it's a bad day when your group commander, or one from the same wing at least, decides to show up in the process of you bashing unit commanders or national HQ.  Certainly it will not look good to be disrespecting senior CAP officers... I think your best bet at this point is to apologize for your attitude, adjust it as required, lick your wounds and move on to bigger and better things...