Obtaining IFR rating in CAP

[stratoflyer]

I just joined CAP as a senior member. I already have a private pilot license and was pleased to find out that I could get my IFR rating through CAP. I was already told to get intimately familiar with CAPR 60-1. I think the IFR training would be done Part 61. What about simulator time? Or would that not be necessary since flying CAP airplanes is already at a reduced cost?

I would appreciate any tips, hints, and otherwise useful information to maximize this opportunity. My ultimate goal is to become a mission pilot!

[FW]

Training for advanced ratings would be under Part 61.  Also, I would get rated as a "transport mission pilot" before you get started.  It's amazing what you can learn while flying aircraft to mission base with a CAP instructor pilot sitting in the right seat.  After you qualify as a "TMP", start training as a Mission Pilot (MP).  More things to learn.   If you do things right, your instrument training gets much easier.
Simulator time is good if you don't have adequate access to aircraft.  I think costs are about equal and, IMHO, actual flying beats the simulator every time (except in thunderstorms  ).  Good luck with your training.

[DG]

CAPR 60-1 Paragraph 3-6. CAP Pilot Flight Training Leading to an Additional Airman Rating or Certificate. Senior and cadet members may receive flight instruction from CAP instructors in CAP aircraft as follows:
a. CAP senior member mission pilots are authorized flight training leading to an instrument rating, or airman rating or certificate (commercial, certificated flight instructor, or certificated flight instructor instrument). (Use mission symbol B12.)
b. CAP pilots, qualified IAW paragraph 3-2c, who have been an active member of CAP for at least 1 year, are authorized flight training leading to an instrument rating, or airman rating or certificate (commercial, certificated flight instructor, or certificated flight instructor instrument) when his/her training has been approved by the wing or region commander. (Use mission symbol C17.)

[mikeylikey]

^ So if you are already a pilot, CAP will help you advance further, but if you are not already a pilot, but want to become one, CAP will CRAP all over you.  I see how it works.  One group is better than another.

Anyway, stratoflyer, welcome to CAP.  Good luck in your advancement.  When do you pin on Captain? 

[Short Field]

I am not sure, but I don't believe being "authorized flight training leading to an instrument rating.." is the same as CAP fully funding the training.  You have to pay the normal rates for the aircraft and may get some discount hours in the process if you are lucky.  The big advantage is that you can fly CAP plane a lot cheaper than you can rent a similar plane and the CAP CFII does not charge you for the instruction.  If CAP does pay, then I need to know as I could use the free flying hours!!!

With a PPL, once you complete Level I, you can be promoted to 2Lt. 

Most accelerated promotions I process are for non-pilots.

[davidsinn]

I think what he's saying is non pilots can not take primary instruction in a CAP aircraft except under special cases. Thus were I to learn I can't use the very low rate to fly a corporate asset. I'd have to find a publicly available aircraft.

[stratoflyer]

OK. First, let me clarify somethings here.

I am by no means looking for free flight training--I simply heard that the cost of training through CAP is substantially less due to no profit being made. There are, of course, costs involved.

I also understand that my flight training will be in accordance with FAA part 61 rules.

Now, what exactly is a "Transport Mission Pilot"?

I found this in the regs:

CAPR 60-1 Section 3-2
c. CAP Pilot. The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP pilot in CAP aircraft:
(1) Be an active CAP member at least 17 years of age (16 years of age for CAP glider pilots).
(2) Possess a valid FAA private, commercial, or airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) Possess a class III or higher medical certificate (not required for gliders).
(4) Possess a current flight review IAW FAR 61.56.
(5) Satisfactorily complete a CAPF 5 flight check in an aircraft (in an appropriate group) within the preceding 12 months.
(6) Complete an annual CAPF 5 written examination and annual aircraft questionnaires (attachments 3 and 4) for each aircraft authorized to fly.

So this says that the only real additional requirement to the FAR's is to get a form 5 checkride. Am I correct here?

How do I get Wing approval to start my training?
Where do I find an instructor and how do I get in contact with him?
My squadron has an airplane, so that is no concern there for me.


In short, after the sun rises tomorrow, what should be my first action to start flying with CAP?

Side note--I'm being promoted to 2LT because of my PPL. I'm ok with that because my level 1 was exempted because I earned my Mitchell as a cadet. So I'll get 1LT in 6 months. Capt will come when I finish my degree.

[SJFedor]

CAPR 60-1, Para 3-6(b) is the answer you're looking for.

You need to do your form 5, get qualified, and spent at least 1 year with CAP before you may begin your training towards an additional rating, unless you get your MP rating before that year is up. You then need to upchannel a request to conduct said training to Wing, and they will write back and say yes or no.

Your unit Stan/Eval officer or Operations officer should be able to help you get started on getting yourself qualified.

[FW]

A Transport Mission Pilot has passed and is qualified for basic CAPF 101 "General Emergency Services" rating and, is a Private Pilot with 175 hrs PIC.  Once your TMP qualification is entered into eservices by your ops officer, you can start training as a Mission Pilot.  While you are training as a MP, you will also start your training (if desired) for instrument rating.  My opinion would be to go for commercial also; as having the commercial/inst. will qualify you for all missions we fly.

So, first get TMP rated.  Next, get MP training with CFII and begin advanced rating training concurrently.  Participate in as many missions as you can having CFII in right seat for most effective use of aircraft, training and cost.

Use simulator only when grounded by weather.

[Short Field]

A Transport Mission Pilot has passed and is qualified for basic CAPF 101 "General Emergency Services" rating and, is a Private Pilot with 175 hrs PIC.  

TMP only requires 100 hrs PIC.  MP Trainee requires 175 hrs PIC plus be a Mission Scanner.  MP requires 200 hours.

[FW]

^ My CRS again  

[Flying Pig]

If  you have access to a Flight Training device (simulator) DO IT!  They are great.  You can get very detailed in your procedures. If you are messing up on an approach, you can literally stop right when the problem is arising and talk about it, back up a mile or two and do it again.  IFR is all about precise procedures.  You can get in detail that you will not otherwise be able to get when you are flying for real.

There are also a lot of drills you do on a Flight Trainer that really assist you with your holds and your power management.  As far as getting your TMP or MP first, I don't think it matters.  If your going to get your Instrument rating then get it.  That way when you get your TMP or MP you will also have your IFR privileges on your Form 5 as well. 

[stratoflyer]

CAPR 60-1, Para 3-6(b) just burst the bubble. I haven't been a member for a year yet. So that means I cannot start my instrument training for 10 months more.

Is this something that can be waived with wing approval?

I guess the only thing I can do now is just my form 5 checkride and build time towards the 100 hrs I need to be TMP rated.

I would also need my CAPF 101 Emergency Services basic rating, right?

[RiverAux]

You're going to need that whole 10 months training to become useful to CAP anyway, so don't worry about it. 

[SJFedor]

CAPR 60-1, Para 3-6(b) just burst the bubble. I haven't been a member for a year yet. So that means I cannot start my instrument training for 10 months more.

Is this something that can be waived with wing approval?

I guess the only thing I can do now is just my form 5 checkride and build time towards the 100 hrs I need to be TMP rated.

I would also need my CAPF 101 Emergency Services basic rating, right?

Unless you can get your MP rating within that 10 months, no.

Part of the reason that rule is there is that (and I'm not saying you're doing this) it prevents people from coming into CAP just for the reduced aircraft rates and free instruction, collecting a few extra ratings, and bouncing right out the door without really giving anything to the organization.

[stratoflyer]

^ Definitely I can see that would be a reason for that. No, rest assured I'm here for the Cadet Program. I got my Mitchell and had a blast and thought about sharing my experience and knowledge. It sure is a nice benefit to be able to fly at a reduced rate.

[SJFedor]

^ Definitely I can see that would be a reason for that. No, rest assured I'm here for the Cadet Program. I got my Mitchell and had a blast and thought about sharing my experience and knowledge. It sure is a nice benefit to be able to fly at a reduced rate.

Well then, we're glad to have you 

[ßτε]

Side note--I'm being promoted to 2LT because of my PPL. I'm ok with that because my level 1 was exempted because I earned my Mitchell as a cadet. So I'll get 1LT in 6 months. Capt will come when I finish my degree.

You could also be a 2d Lt  from your Mitchell. How is it you will get 1st Lt in 6 months? And what degree are you expecting to get Capt from?

[Camas]

So I'll get 1LT in 6 months.

Try one year from the time you make 2d Lt.

Capt will come when I finish my degree.

Captain will come when you complete Level II - just like everyone else unless there's some very good reason in accordance with CAPR35-5 that should provide you with an exemption.

[stratoflyer]

Yeah I clearly misread the regs. It's clear now.