Pilots: Engine failure, return

[Flying Pig]

One thing to consider is going for a taxi-way if its clear.  Depending on the set up of the airport it could require less of a turn.  Departing out, engine failure and making a turn could line you up good for the taxiway.  A turn back to the runway isn't a 180.  Its more of a 270 to get you back to centerline, then a 90 to line you up for final.    Where going for the taxiway could easily be a real 180.  Another thing to remember is that you are probably going to have a tail wind once you make your turn.  You could have a significant one at that!  The lowest Ive ever attempted it in a 206 was 700'.  And about a 45 deg turn was about all I could get unless I wanted to just crash back on the airport property. 

When you are on the climb out, its pretty eye-opening to see just how much airspeed you lose when the throttle is pulled to idle before you can get the nose down and regain airspeed.  Absolutely DO NOT ever initiate your turn back with your nose up.  Your speed has to be regained before you start the turn or you'll never make it.   Going out and practicing, I learned that I really needed to be at 1000' in a C206 to really be able to make a turn back to the runway.  Something I learned from flying gliders was to call out 1000' on departure.  That way if something happened, I wasn't taking time to look at my Alt.  I already knew. 

[Check Pilot/Tow Pilot]

Something I learned from flying gliders was to call out 1000' on departure.  That way if something happened, I wasn't taking time to look at my Alt.  I already knew.

I like the call at 1,000 feet, I learned that from gliders too

Speaking about gliders and winds and this can also affect shorter winged aircraft: Wind Gradient.  Something to consider if you are have placed yourself in such a bad position that you are doing a final turn close to the ground.

Some good information about wind in the FAA's Glider Flying Handbook http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-13a.pdf on pages 5-3 to 5-5.

[Flying Pig]

It was actually 200' and then 1000'.  At 200 you should be able to make a turn back to the "airport environment".  at 1000 you should be able to fly a regular traffic pattern in the event of a rope break or a tow plane emergency.  But I dont think 200' does much for a C182

[SunDog]

If you really want to check the fidelity of a simulation, then get in a plane and try it...not literally from the runway, mind you, but pick an altitude, say 2,000' AGL.

Start a climb at Vy, at say +500' pull the engine to idle and get turned around.  You can use a handheld GPS to simulate the "runway" that you want to get back to.  See how much altitude loss happens before you're back lined up.

There are other factors that mess with you too...wind is a big one.

Yeah, actually, that's what I'm doing - see previous posts - but mostly down near the rwy now when I have access to an AOA equipped C-172,  anyway.  Being more conservative in airplanes (CAP) when my only reference to stall is airspeed, which is "second-hand".

Already figured out the sims aren't accurate, so trying to get some ball-park data points for modifying software, so I can get a sim that WILL act like the airplane. Not too interested in the C-182 - they handle like pigs at the best of times - great for IFR, straight and level; not so great for yanking and banking. . .

The altitude call-out hint (1,000') sound real good - gona steal that! And I've gotten the "push" required wired in my brain now; one interesting thing I did at altitude was yank the power and hold the pitch attitude - held it where it was. Mr. Stall arrives fairly promptly in takeoff configuration.

I am getting back from 800' using a teardrop - slight turn (20 degrees) into the wind, then drive for 10 seconds, turn back  180 degrees at 45 degrees bank, complete the 180, then see about 20-30 degrees remaining to get the nose pointed at the threshold. It's close, depending on wind, and how quick you got to 800'. . .

A lot steeper turn is easier (for me) with AOA; I guess I could note the airspeed that matches the AOA I can tolerate, but when I shaved this morning, I didn't see Chuck Yeager in the mirror.

One interesting thing is how much your (my?) head is inside the cockpit, looking at AS/AOA and the ball. You end up sort of tracking the rwy with your peripheral vision, and watching coordination and stall margin very closely.