Pilot training through CAP

[Cjthom1728]

I am planning on pursuing my private pilot's license through CAP during the summer of 2014. I need to start saving now. Does anybody have an estimated range on the cost for getting my license's?




P.S. I am a cadet in the Georgia wing

[SJFedor]

There's a couple different threads on this board about cadets doing this, I was once a cadet who completed his PPL this way as well.

First, good for you that you've got a 2 year plan. Make sure you have a SM CFI (or two, or three. the more the merrier) who's willing to donate the immense amount of time required.

You'll have to find out how GAWG charges for aircraft usage. Some do a flat "per hour" rate, some do the per hour charge in 173-3 on top of actual fuel cost. So, as an example, the dry rate for a C172 is $29/hr. Fuel cost, today, at Falcon Field (just thought of a random Georgia airport that wasnt ATL) is $6.23/gal. C172s burn 8-10gal/hr. So ~$60+$29=$89/hr. You'll need a MINIMUM of 40 hours of flight time to complete your licensure, most require more around 60. 60hrs x $89/hr= $5340.

[bflynn]

The national average is closer to 75-80 hours to finish. 

It's a good goal, but it takes effort...

[bosshawk]

And doing it during a summer vacation is another strong challenge.  You would almost need to fly every day in order to make it before school started again.  How many CAP CFIs are willing to make that commitment?

[Flying Pig]

You will find that earning your Private through CAP probably wont save you (I mean your parents) nearly as much as you think it will. 

[Cjthom1728]

Where could I find the aircraft rental rate for my wing?

[JeffDG]

Where could I find the aircraft rental rate for my wing?

Isn't the classic answer:  The Chain of Command.

Generally, the Stan/Eval folks will have a number (if you squadron has a Stan/Eval Officer, that'll be a good spot to start, otherwise the Squadron Commander of course).  If they quote you a "wet" rate, that means fuel is included.  If they quote a "dry" rate, then you have to buy fuel as well (check out http://airnav.com for fuel prices in your area).

[Critical AOA]

And doing it during a summer vacation is another strong challenge.  You would almost need to fly every day in order to make it before school started again.  How many CAP CFIs are willing to make that commitment?

Ah, the magic question!  Since they are not allowed to charge for their time and they all have other things going on, I imagine it would be very difficult to find a SM CFI who could / would dedicate enough time over such a short time frame. 

One option would be to do a ground school and pass the written.  Next would be to spend the money at a local FBO / flight school or with an independent CFI.  Fly the cheapest airplane that they have.  After you solo there, see if a CAP CFI would work with you to get you approved for solo in CAP aircraft and work towards your PPL.  I think doing it all from scratch in CAP would be very time consuming and your lessons might end up spread out too far to make it as productive as one would like.

[Cjthom1728]

Very interesting, you think I should reep the benefits of having a paid CFI and training through CAP?

[Pylon]

Very interesting, you think I should reep the benefits of having a paid CFI and training through CAP?

You may have to.

Though the "benefit" of doing primary training in CAP aircraft is available to CAP cadets, that does not mean that a CAP CFI has to agree to help you out.  In fact, you may find none are willing to help you out.  Because of the FAR's and CAP's rules, CAP CFI's cannot accept even so much as a dollar from you for all the training they'll need to provide.  As others have pointed out, that's a big commitment.  Besides the 40 hours minimum (and as others have noted above, the average is higher) in the hot seat, there will additional time on the ground, as well as ground school.  It's a big commitment. 

The other downside to doing it at the convenience of a CAP CFI is that the more you draw out your training over a longer period of time, the more remedial stuff you'll need to do -- therefore the longer you take from start of training to your PPL, the more likely it is you'll need additional hours in the aircraft.  As you're finding out that isn't cheap.

AOPA awards a few scholarships to CAP cadets each year, of about $2500 each.  These are competitive and merit-based, but are worth at least applying for.  It'd be free money so there's no reason not to try.  But you may need to have the Mitchell Award to be eligible for these.

[Garibaldi]

Time was a CFI CAP pilot would split the cost of gas and plane with you to teach you...

[Cliff_Chambliss]

As an active CFII I have provided cadet flight training to a couple of cadets but refused many more. 

[Flying Pig]

You might get lucky and find some retired guy who is a CAP CFI who is just looking to keep his hand in the game.  However, I have a friend who I am doing his private for him.  Something hes always wanted to do.  So I agreed that I would do all of his ground for free and he would just pay me the instructor rate while we flew.  Even that can be a hassle when you are volunteering 3-4 hrs a week at the local airport.  I really couldnt imagine taking on a full student pilot at no cost.   
However......If you do happen to be lucky enough to find someone willing to assist, you need to make sure you AND your parents know EXACTLY what an amazing thing this particular CAP CFI is doing for you.  You are paying for the plane, not the services of the CAP CFI, that will be all out of the kindness of his/her own heart and their love for CAP and aviation.  Ive seen more than one aggressive parent screw up good deals for cadets.

[Eclipse]

^ The plane is always going to be an issue.  You're looking at $3-4K minimum if you're able to do it in a CAP plane, more if you have to rent a civilian aircraft.

[mdickinson]

Finding a CFI willing to give you the dual instruction necessary might not be as hard as you think.

I've been a CAP flight instructor for the last 15 years, and have given primary flight instruction to 13 cadets so far, and instrument training to one. Of those cadets, 9 were instructed during a wing or national Flight Academies, and the other four were just local cadets who wanted to earn their Private Pilot certificate. One of those went on to get his instrument rating as well.

Thus far, I have never turned down a cadet who called and asked me for flight instruction.

I do, however, explain to them my requirements; stuff like "you must be available for at least two lessons each week" and "you must commit to doing two hours of home study between each lesson" and "before you begin training, you must have enough money saved up to pay for all the plane rental, fuel, and supplies you're going to need." (because I don't want to put in 20 hours of ground instruction plus 30 hours of flight instruction, and then have the cadet run out of money.)

After hearing these requirements, many of the cadets who call to ask for instruction suddenly get cold feet.

The ones who decide to continue are what you might call "hard core aviation nuts": of the four local cadets I've taught to fly, two of them went to the Air Force Academy, one enlisted in the USAF, and the fourth is at Embry-Riddle, currently working on his commercial certificate.

In my wing, I know of five or six CAP CFIs who regularly give instruction to cadets who request it. One of these guys has been consistently giving dual to cadets for the last 20+ years, and is responsible for at least 20 of them getting their Private!

• Can you do your private in CAP? Yes.
• Can you afford it? Only you and your parents can answer this question. Plan on 50 hours of dual + 20 hours solo, plus $700 in supplies, knowledge test fee, medical exam fee, and checkride fee. If you can't find a local pilot who will lend you a headset, add another $300 to buy a used headset on ebay.
• Can you find a nearby CFI who will help you?  Not unless you ask.

Your squadron commander should be able to get a list of all the CAP CFIs in your wing (by asking the wing Stan-Eval officer) and supply that list to you along with phone numbers or email addresses.

Good luck! It's not easy - but something this cool rarely is. Those with the drive and will to succeed will persevere.

[mdickinson]

Here are the estimated costs of earning the private pilot certificate through CAP, as calculated by my most recent Private Pilot student. I've adjusted the spreadsheet to reflect current prices at my home airport and wing. 

This calculation assumes it will take 50 hours of dual, 12 hours of solo, and a 1.5 hour checkride.
(Every CFI and every pilot will have a different opinion on how many hours it should/will/ought to take, based on his/her personal experience, so there's no need to chime in and tell me this estimate is wrong. It is based on actual experience with several different students at our high-traffic airport (basically class C airspace).

Rental of CAP C-172: 62 hrs @ $30/hr  (price varies from wing to wing)
Avgas: 8 gallons per hour @ $6.18/gallon (and that's the special CAP discounted fuel price!)
45 trips to the airport @ $3.25 (gas & toll from the cadet's house to the airport and back)
Gleim Private Pilot Kit $149 (includes all study and reference books, log book, plotter)
2 sectional charts @ $9
Medical exam $100
Checkride examiner fee $350
Headset (used) $300

Total cost to private certificate: $6,108

Needless to say, this would be significantly more expensive at the local flight training school.
- They don't rent aircraft for $30/hour dry... more like $150/hr wet, plus 8% tax
- Add the costs of instruction: 50 hours of dual @$45/hr; 25 hours of ground instruction @$40/hr; plus 8% tax
Total cost through the flight school: $14,860

So I figure my next private student through CAP will save about $8,753.
Or (more likely) will be able to earn the certificate, as opposed to not.

I tried to attach my spreadsheet, but captalk doesn't allow attaching an .xls file. Here is a .pdf of the spreadsheet - anyone needing the .xls can find it at http://cap.mdickinson.com/Estimated_flight_training_cost.xls