CAP accepting non-US citizens

[arajca]

My opinion is "No".  Under no circumstances should a non-citizen be allowed to join- unless that person served the US military and was Honorable Discharge.

The non-citizens that are allowed to join are folks who are here legally and most are on the way to gaining US citizenship. They have to be able to speak and read English because our materials are not published in any other language. So CAP is not bowing to their culture, they are change to ours.

[JCJ]

It's important also to determine if they have a SSN.  Of course, citizens and green card holders do.

I had a long-term exchange student once we wanted to get approved to join as a cadet while he was in the US.  Had parental permission, etc.  Waiver was proceeding well until it was determined he had no SSN and wouldn't be getting one -- which killed the deal.

[Al Sayre]

There was an article in the first issue of the Volunteer magazine about a West German Colonel, who had his Gil Robb Wilson Award before he had his American Citizenship.

I know the gentleman he was in my Squadron when I assumed command, although he is currently assigned to Wing HQ.

[Hawk200]

Personally, I have no problem with foreign natiionals joining CAP. I would expect the same thing I expect of an American citizen: They do their job to the best of their ability, ask help when they need it, and contribute to the team.

That being said, it's a little hard to tell a foreign national that they can't join a corporation. If we were still the pre-corporate CAP, some people might have had a little more weight to their issue with this being a military auxiliary. Since it is no longer, denying membership to certain groups of people has little justification.

So, to those who stand on the fact that we are a corporation, and no longer always the Air Force Auxiliary, you can't have it both ways. You have to accept corporate behaviours and attitudes. That includes accepting people that are not American citizens.

[SeattleSarge]

Just a note of interest...

Two of our non-citizens are going to be assigned as interpreters to the annual Air Mobility Command Rodeo at McChord AFB in July.

A unique service these personnel can provide. 

-SeattleSarge

[Pylon]

Just a note of interest...

Two of our non-citizens are going to be assigned as interpreters to the annual Air Mobility Command Rodeo at McChord AFB in July.

A unique service these personnel can provide. 

-SeattleSarge

Bravo!   (...and what a great CAP News article and media release for CAP!)

I think it's great to have the diversity of foreign nationals, immigrants and non-citizen residents serving in CAP.  They certainly bring a wide variety of talents to the organization, of which another language may be just the start!

As to the earlier worries of one particular poster that we're bending over backwards to accomodate immigrants - that sounds like a personal chip.  If they're joining CAP, they obviously speak English and are wanting to contribute to our society in a productive way.  What more could you ask?

I say great opportunities for CAP!  I wish we had some "members from abroad" in my squadron!   

[jimmydeanno]

If they're joining CAP, they obviously speak English

Not necessarily, I remember going to COS and a couple of the Puerto Rico cadets had an interpreter with them because they couldn't speak english.

[Tubacap]

I am in the process of going through the waiver for a non-citizen to join.  She is in the U.S.  on a student Visa and won't initially be getting a SSN. 

JCJ where in the process did not having an SSN kill the deal?

[JCJ]

I am in the process of going through the waiver for a non-citizen to join.  She is in the U.S.  on a student Visa and won't initially be getting a SSN. 

JCJ where in the process did not having an SSN kill the deal?

NHQ

I don't remember the exact details any more, but it was legit.  It was a few years ago, so maybe it's different now.

[BillB]

The Puerto Rico cadets are U.S. Citizens.

[lordmonar]

It's important also to determine if they have a SSN.  Of course, citizens and green card holders do.

I had a long-term exchange student once we wanted to get approved to join as a cadet while he was in the US.  Had parental permission, etc.  Waiver was proceeding well until it was determined he had no SSN and wouldn't be getting one -- which killed the deal.

An exchange student would require a NHQ waiver.

[O-Rex]

RogueLeader,

If you want to be that way...I don't think anyone can join unless they have served in the military and honorably discharged.

I'm tired of accommodating non-ex-military types!

We suffer not your slings & arrows, for they do not penetrate our OTV's...

[CFI_Ed]

Here at Tinker AFB (home of the 552nd AWACS Wing), we have had Canadian Air Force personnel (and still do) as members of the squadron located on the base or with Wing staff.  In most cases they have been members of the Canadian Civil Air Search and Rescue Association (CASARA)  http://www.casara.ca/ and lots of actual SAR experience. 

If you go to the link there is an article about Gord Lemon winning the McKee Trophy.  Prominent in the first paragraph is mention about CAP and Gordo's invovlement with OK and AK wings.   

[JCJ]

It's important also to determine if they have a SSN.  Of course, citizens and green card holders do.

I had a long-term exchange student once we wanted to get approved to join as a cadet while he was in the US.  Had parental permission, etc.  Waiver was proceeding well until it was determined he had no SSN and wouldn't be getting one -- which killed the deal.

An exchange student would require a NHQ waiver.

Yes - and the Chain of Command and NHQ staff were very supportive.  Unfortunately the lack of a SSN was some kind of administrative detail that made it a non-starter.  We planned to solve it by getting him a SSN for identification purposes only, which is possible, but it was going to take so long that there would be too little time left in his exchange tour.

[RiverAux]

Personally I think if a non-citizen permanent resident wants to join CAP (and is eligible to join the military), I've got no problem with it as they will undergo the same background checks as the rest of us.  If CAP was really getting involved with anything "sensitive" I might feel a little different, but that doesn't really seem to be happening. 

[floridacyclist]

My opinion is "No".  Under no circumstances should a non-citizen be allowed to join- unless that person served the US military and was Honorable Discharge.

Wow...so are you saying that we need to fire our AMO and ship his Canuck butt home? Does he get a refund of his dues that he's paid for the last several years?

[Spacecenter]

I saw the "story" and LOL'd.

We had a FN member when we were still at MCAS El Toro. Obviously was a plant from NZ, trying to get information in the Pre-911 days

We've got another FN (Chilean IIRC) currently. I am unaware of any hiccups when he came in last fall, and would have heard.

Just got off the phone with another member from Switzerland (or Swaziland-never can get my geography right if it's not on a sectional  ). Didn't think ever to ask him his nationality-even though last night over a frosty beverage he did confess to being a diver in his former residence's Navy. He just came in last June-no problem there either.

Of course these are folks who are in the country legally.

As was previously posted it was probably because it was an overseas squadron.

Our strength does not come from our diversity-it comes from our commonality-commonality of spirit and professionalism. Commonality in respecting each other, and respecting the principles upon which our country is founded.

Fly safe-Avoid papercuts-and keep those dues payments coming in. 

Matt in CAWG

[LtCol White]

Remember guys, there are non us citizens serving on active duty in all branches of the armed forces. If they are allowed to serve, CAP shouldn't really be any different.

[SarDragon]

Regarding overseas squadrons, there are certain additional restrictions in place. All emphasis mine.

3. Charter Policy. Charters will be limited to cadet squadrons and restricted to overseas US Air Force installations. Charters will be granted only upon request of the installation's commander and only where there is potential for a strong, viable unit. Since the success of the squadron depends largely upon the local installation, squadrons will be chartered only where strong base support is assured.
a. Minimum Membership. Minimum squadron membership is fifteen, three of whom must be senior members. Flights will not be chartered.
b. Squadron Commander. Since overseas squadrons operate almost independently, selecting a suitable squadron commander is vitally important. Squadron commanders and their replacements must be active duty members in the grade of tech sergeant or higher  and recommended by the military installation commander. Units cannot obtain or retain a charter without a commander who meets these criteria.

5. Membership Restrictions. Membership in overseas squadrons will be restricted to those individuals meeting the membership eligibility requirements of CAPM 39-2, Civil Air Patrol Membership, and are covered under the provisions of the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA).

The SOFA provisions also vary among the host nations (currently only Japan and Germany).

[Dragoon]

Remember guys, there are non us citizens serving on active duty in all branches of the armed forces. If they are allowed to serve, CAP shouldn't really be any different.

Lt Col White is right on the money. At best we're the "part time" USAF.  Our standards shouldn't be higher than our parent service.  That just doesn't pass the common sense test.

If a non-U.S. citizen can join USAF, he should be eligible to join us.

Now, they still gotta get fingerprinted, and one would hope that CAP puts certain members through a little additional screening behind the scenes.  But if they check out, it makes sense to let 'em in.