I'm curious what is charged for SLS/CLC/UCC around the country. I know Wings run these courses in a variety of ways. None are really right or wrong as long as it works for that Wing. Plus, we might get ideas to improve our own programs by looking other others.
The reason I'm asking? My Wing has received some complaints over the fee we are charging for and upcoming SLS/CLC (both on the same weekend). For this course they are asking $20 which covers the cost of the print outs, lunch both days, and coffee and juice both mornings. Members will have to pay for their own lodging, but arrangement can be made at a local Air Force base (if space is available). Transportation is also the responsibility of the member, but the Wing has arranged for a training exercise to begin that weekend. So that might be a transportation option for some.
So, I'm going to presume they pay for their own transportation cost to and from the activity. But if they choose to attend, what can members expect to pay for? Is there a cost for the course? Do they pay for food? Do they pay for lodging? What other incidental expenses do they have? On the other side, what is considered to be "included" in the course? What else am I missing?
Personally, the only time I've spent money for PD, other than gas, was for Region Staff College 5 states away, in another region. And to be honest, I'm not even sure I paid for the course, just the lodging and meals.
I've never charged for a PD course and I've never been charged. I didn't know one could be charged unless there was planned catering or something and then it would only be like $5 or $10.
If you're hard up for SLS, CLC, etc, then I guess people would fork money out of pocket for trans and lodging, but that's about it.
I taught at a PDW a few months ago where lunch and snacks were provided, but I'm not sure if folks were charged. I can't imaging having someone drive up to Jacksonville from Miami and then asking them for $10 for a half-a$$ sub sandwich.
Quote from: Stonewall on August 05, 2007, 08:35:38 PM
I've never charged for a PD course and I've never been charged. I didn't know one could be charged unless there was planned catering or something and then it would only be like $5 or $10.
Then who pays? While there may be no cost to the member, someone has to pay for things. I'm sure some Wings budget for these courses, but others don't see PD as a priority. I know NHQ
used to have a budget for PD courses, but when we started our planning, we were told this was no longer the case.
And if you're catering the thing, the cost would be whatever the cost of the catering is divided by the number of participants. For us, we're a small Wing, so we have a small number of participants no matter what.
Several years ago I attended a course, I think it was SLS or something like that. Anyway, it was free, but we all had to bring our own food and drinks and or break and leave for lunch. I later went to another course where everyone was charged $15-$20 and we had a nice lunch catered and had drinks and stayed on site. It just seemed to make for a more formal atmosphere. Its nice to be able to get up and get coffee in he morning, etc. Especially when these resident type courses are designed for meeting people. Everyone seemed to get together earlier for coffee in the classoom and talk.
As far as paper, printer ink, etc. Someones gotta pay for it.
Quote from: shorning on August 05, 2007, 08:27:15 PM
I'm curious what is charged for SLS/CLC/UCC around the country. I know Wings run these courses in a variety of ways. None are really right or wrong as long as it works for that Wing. Plus, we might get ideas to improve our own programs by looking other others.
So, I'm going to presume they pay for their own transportation cost to and from the activity. But if they choose to attend, what can members expect to pay for? Is there a cost for the course? Do they pay for food? Do they pay for lodging? What other incidental expenses do they have? On the other side, what is considered to be "included" in the course? What else am I missing?
LAWG charges $20. Coffee & donuts provided. Member pays for gas, lunch, and lodging.
ARWG had no charge, and provided coffee & donuts, and a nice lunch of sandwich fixings, chips, cookies, etc. Member pays for gas & lodging.
GAWG charged $5, and provided very nice continental breakfast, juice, coffee, snacks, etc. Member pays for gas, lunch, and lodging.
I have never encountered a charge for course materials.
Never paid or heard of having to pay for SLS or CLC. However, if they are providing food, its not unreasonable to ask the members to chip in. Now, if Wing if flush with cash they should probably consider eating (pun intended) the cost of such things.
The PD weekend we just did at CAWG cost $20, which covered the chow that was available all of both days - coffee, sodas, all kinds of munchies, fruit, etc. I don't know what else the funds might have been used for. The price seemed reasonable to me.
Quote from: shorning on August 05, 2007, 08:27:15 PM
I'm curious what is charged for SLS/CLC/UCC around the country. I know Wings run these courses in a variety of ways. None are really right or wrong as long as it works for that Wing. Plus, we might get ideas to improve our own programs by looking other others.
The reason I'm asking? My Wing has received some complaints over the fee we are charging for and upcoming SLS/CLC (both on the same weekend). For this course they are asking $20 which covers the cost of the print outs, lunch both days, and coffee and juice both mornings. Members will have to pay for their own lodging, but arrangement can be made at a local Air Force base (if space is available). Transportation is also the responsibility of the member, but the Wing has arranged for a training exercise to begin that weekend. So that might be a transportation option for some.
So, I'm going to presume they pay for their own transportation cost to and from the activity. But if they choose to attend, what can members expect to pay for? Is there a cost for the course? Do they pay for food? Do they pay for lodging? What other incidental expenses do they have? On the other side, what is considered to be "included" in the course? What else am I missing?
I don't see any problem with $20 to cover the costs. If there is proper presentation of documents and other expenses. Sometimes there might be rent to pay or other incidental costs.
I do have some problems with units that use CAP Professional development courses as a FUNDRAISING opportunity.
I've never seen a PD course that did not charge a fee. Those of you who are in Wings that fund them are fortunate.
I've done a SLS, CLC, & UCC. The most I have ever been charged for a course is $25. I never found that unreasonable because coffee/doughnuts & lunch were provided. Also course handouts cost $$$ to reproduce. Any gas & lodging were out of pocket.
The courses are not mandatory to be a CAP SM....just to advance in the program!
Someone has to pay!
Quote from: Viper QA on August 05, 2007, 11:00:27 PM
I've never seen a PD course that did not charge a fee. Those of you who are in Wings that fund them are fortunate.
At the opposite end of this... Only ever been asked to donate a couple of bucks to cover the cost of the donuts and Box of Joe.
We just ran a PDW here in Florida and we did not charge a fee. I was "Selected" to pay for the coffee and donuts, and put in for reimbursement to wing, which is $70 and change I haven't seen come back yet.
Staff and students were on their own for meals, which was on a base, so the mess hall meals ran something like $2.15 for a large salad and drink up to about $5.50 for a full meal.
Steve: $15 or 20 sounds perfectly reasonable to me: with the reproduction of printed materials being what it is, it is unreasonable to expect the Sq or Gp putting on the course to foot the bill. Fat pills and coffee also cost someone a bunch. Of course, a lot of CAP members think that everything should be free.
If you hold it on a military installation, the cost of lodging is very reasonable. Trans is another issue and that is up to the member.
What each wing charges for PD courses may depend on whether those costs are included in the supplemental monies provided to the wing by state government. If the PD course costs are included in the approved state budget allocation then the wing should not need to charge course fees. Of course if the state provided money for the PD courses and the wing charged course fees anyway so they could spend that money somewhere else- well, that would normally be fraud.
Keep in mind that Wing does have money sources of its own outside of state government-- member dues for example.
I think we did $20 last time. It helps offset the overall budget, which covers donuts/coffee, lunch both days, and lodging on post. Beer must be funded by the individual members, but I have recommended that we fire some paid staff in order to have a more adequate beer supply. >:D
Quote from: JC004 on August 06, 2007, 04:30:11 AM
I think we did $20 last time. It helps offset the overall budget, which covers donuts/coffee, lunch both days, and lodging on post. Beer must be funded by the individual members, but I have recommended that we fire some paid staff in order to have a more adequate beer supply. >:D
Like the Webmaster General? >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 06, 2007, 04:38:14 AM
Quote from: JC004 on August 06, 2007, 04:30:11 AM
I think we did $20 last time. It helps offset the overall budget, which covers donuts/coffee, lunch both days, and lodging on post. Beer must be funded by the individual members, but I have recommended that we fire some paid staff in order to have a more adequate beer supply. >:D
Like the Webmaster General? >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
I'm volunteer staff, sadly. :(
Quote from: JC004 on August 06, 2007, 04:41:55 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 06, 2007, 04:38:14 AM
Quote from: JC004 on August 06, 2007, 04:30:11 AM
I think we did $20 last time. It helps offset the overall budget, which covers donuts/coffee, lunch both days, and lodging on post. Beer must be funded by the individual members, but I have recommended that we fire some paid staff in order to have a more adequate beer supply. >:D
Like the Webmaster General? >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
I'm volunteer staff, sadly. :(
Was pretty sure, but I couldn't really help myself- you opened it up, really ;)
I just took SLS and CLC.
SLS was free and CLC was $10.
Both the SLS I took in January and the CLC the end of this month cost $25. That covers the cost of reproduction of handouts, plus breakfast/snacks and lunch both days. Any transportation or lodging costs are the responsibility of the individual members.
In MSWG, no charge for the schools, although you are expected to throw in a couple of bucks for the snacks & chow etc. You pay for your own gas and (lodging if needed) Wing reimburses instructors for fuel if required.
I recall that I paid 20 bucks for the (SLS) course. It was at Scott AFB in the quarters of the resident CAP Squadron and I had to pay for meals, gas, and lodging myself (About 75 bucks all told) although donuts and coffee were provided to those lucky few who got to it first.
My SLS in Pcola was free...food was on me, but it was on-base so it was cheap. Just talked to the PDO yesterday about an SLS and he said to send him all the receipts including lunch as long as we keep it reasonable....guess that means that having Hooters Cater it is out.
Quote from: floridacyclist on August 08, 2007, 01:29:35 PM
he said to send him all the receipts including lunch as long as we keep it reasonable....guess that means that having Hooters Cater it is out.
Well, that depends on how cheap those Hooters girls are... >:D
Quote from: Fifinella on August 08, 2007, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: floridacyclist on August 08, 2007, 01:29:35 PM
he said to send him all the receipts including lunch as long as we keep it reasonable....guess that means that having Hooters Cater it is out.
Well, that depends on how cheap those Hooters girls are... >:D
Having a woman say this makes the joke so much better.
What is the setup for pricing, lodging etc... for things like RSC and NSC?
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on August 11, 2007, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: Fifinella on August 08, 2007, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: floridacyclist on August 08, 2007, 01:29:35 PM
he said to send him all the receipts including lunch as long as we keep it reasonable....guess that means that having Hooters Cater it is out.
Well, that depends on how cheap those Hooters girls are... >:D
Having a woman say this makes the joke so much better.
What is the setup for pricing, lodging etc... for things like RSC and NSC?
For the NCR, RSC which was at Offut AFB, hotels were like $65 a night. IIRC
Darn...
What about the other associated costs?
Wow....$20 for two-days of classes and all of the material plus coffee and donuts is very, very reasonable.
20 bucks for SLS/CLC is a good deal.
However I cant see 65 bucks for base lodging as reasonable; Maybe 40. (Unless the 65 gets you club access wilst you are there) ... I cant see anyone letting CAP into an O-Club.
Your mileage may vary.
Eh, I dunno, they were letting us have free reign of the club at Camp Atterbury at NESA.
MAS and ICSS had a fun graduation night there. I left around midnight when the tequila came out.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on August 14, 2007, 03:51:48 AM
I cant see anyone letting CAP into an O-Club.
Your mileage may vary.
Didn't have any trouble getting into the aircrew bar at the O Club after Encampment...Boy, did I need THAT. :P
Forgot to mention: LAWG does not charge cadets for attending our "Training Academy". It is held 3x a year, in a centralized location, and includes SLS, CLC, etc plus MS/MP, UDF, First Aid, etc. The cadets are included in UDF, First Aid, etc. courses.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on August 14, 2007, 03:51:48 AM
... I cant see anyone letting CAP into an O-Club. Your mileage may vary.
I've never been denied access to an O-Club because I was a CAP Officer. Heck, when I was a cadet I was able to go to the O-Club for food. I didn't even know there were memberships... :)