Objection, Your Honor!

[LtCol White]

The gray sleeve braid MIGHT go over, IF you had a sewn-on gray epaulet with metal rank.

Somebody once sugested that CAP officers buy the AF enlisted uniform, along with a "CAP Officer Conversion Kit" consisting of gray sleeve braid and gray epaulets.

You would pin on your rank, and pin a "CAP" cutout halfway between the rank device and the button.

With "CAP" on the epaulet, the US could stay on the lapel.

I think we need to attempt to get rid of the gray on the USAF uniforms if possible. I think if presented properly to USAF, they might be amenable to it. The photo I posted above is clearly distinct to CAP, doesn't have increased costs to the membership, but still looks very professional.

The gray eps should be kept only for the white/gray combo uniform.

[Ned]

I think it is time someone asked some pretty strong questions to Col Hodgkins as to why the Air Force is so against CAP officers wearing blue nametags and shoulder marks. 

Have at it, Sport.

Here's the link to his email and phone number (near the top of the list).

Be sure to remind him that you are a taxpayer and pay his salary!

(If you actually do this, please let him know that you are not a current member.)

Let us know how it goes.

[LtCol White]

I think it is time someone asked some pretty strong questions to Col Hodgkins as to why the Air Force is so against CAP officers wearing blue nametags and shoulder marks. 

Have at it, Sport.

Here's the link to his email and phone number (about halfway down the list).

Be sure to remind him that you are a taxpayer and pay his salary!

Let us know how it goes.

Thats not the way to mend fences and improve a relationship by asking "what's your problem"

[Hawk200]

You could drop the silver nametag in favor of the old type blue one on the coats and even drop US and put CAP on both. This would create greater similarity between the 2 combos so that it would be obvious that both were the same org.

I wouldn't drop the silver nametag on the coats. That old blue one looked tacky on that style of service dress. Presently, there are two variations on the silver nametag: One with just name, the other with name and "Civil Air Patrol". Just pick one.

Although, if you go with one having "Civil Air Patrol" on it, put it below the name. For some reason, above the name just looks wierd to me, like it's out of balance or something.

Again, just throwing out ideas to make it a little different without looking garish.

Nothing wrong with batting the idea back and forth. I apologize if I gave you a different impression.

The configuration of the silver with the CAP on it just looks wrong to me. I can't really explain it. I just look at it, and it looks strange. I do agree that we should pick one nametag for both coats. It would look better overall.

[Hawk200]

The gray eps should be kept only for the white/gray combo uniform.

Personally, I don't mind the grey epaulets. I think they look fine on blue shirts, as well as white ones. It would be easier overall.

Think of this dialog:

Unit commander: "Mr Smith, I'm putting in your promo to 2LT"
SMWOG: "OK, uh.., what do color epaulets do I get?"
Unit commander: "Well, you're wearing that white and grey outfit, so you would need grey epaulets."
SMWOG: "Oh, OK. I'll get some"

Now if you go with one color, you get this:

Unit commander: "Mr Smith, I'm putting in your promo to 2LT"
SMWOG: "OK, I'll order some epaulets."

One thing that puzzles me is that cadet officers still wear blue. With seniors in grey, and cadets wearing blue, the cadets look closer to AF officers than seniors do.

[LtCol White]

I think we would be fine having Blue and Gray for the 2 combinations. Its not that hard to figure out which one u would wear based on the uniform you wear. It any part of it is blue, wear blue. If any part of it is gray, wear gray.

ALL members should be educated as to uniform regulations anyway. Thats part of the problem and why we are where we are with our uniforms now. Commanders don't educate and enforce the regulations.

[Hawk200]

ALL members should be educated as to uniform regulations anyway. Thats part of the problem and why we are where we are with our uniforms now. Commanders don't educate and enforce the regulations.

Pretty much gotta agree with that one. It's not a problem in my unit, the commander sends people to me for their Level 1/CPPT, and I tell them about uniforms while they're with me.

[LtCol White]

ALL members should be educated as to uniform regulations anyway. Thats part of the problem and why we are where we are with our uniforms now. Commanders don't educate and enforce the regulations.

Pretty much gotta agree with that one. It's not a problem in my unit, the commander sends people to me for their Level 1/CPPT, and I tell them about uniforms while they're with me.

Agreed. But what we need is more of this. It is a commander's job to see that his troops are educated in and obey the regulations. We don't have to like all of them but we do have to follow them. If we show USAF that we are educating our folks and enforcing our regulations, THAT will have a huge effect on the relationship. 

Remember, USAF is LOVES people who follow regs.

[Eagle400]

Colonel White, what is that last ribbon on your rack?

[Eagle400]

I think it is time someone asked some pretty strong questions to Col Hodgkins as to why the Air Force is so against CAP officers wearing blue nametags and shoulder marks. 

Have at it, Sport.

Here's the link to his email and phone number (near the top of the list).

Be sure to remind him that you are a taxpayer and pay his salary!

(If you actually do this, please let him know that you are not a current member.)

Let us know how it goes.

What?  Do you think I'm stupid?  Come on, get real Lt Col Lee!  He's not going to waste the time listening to a former member, even one with 9 years of service.  Did that last jab at me make you feel better?   

Too bad Col Hodgkins is not a member of this board.  That's all I'm going to say.     

[Major Carrales]

Too bad Col Hodgkins is not a member of this board.  That's all I'm going to say.     

Truth is, you have no idea who is reading these posts nor do you have any idea who is exactally who here.

[Eagle400]

Truth is, you have no idea who is reading these posts nor do you have any idea who is exactally who here.

True, but nobody knows exactly who I am, either! 

[mikeylikey]

Too bad Col Hodgkins is not a member of this board.  That's all I'm going to say.     

Truth is, you have no idea who is reading these posts nor do you have any idea who is exactally who here.

I think I am me??  In fact I know I am me.....no one else is me but me! 

Seriously.......I like the Colonels suggestion of bringing back the blue slides.  It is time some at NHQ re-presents it.  Oh wait.......the AF will most likely say, "What are you kidding......just wear your new double breasted outfit". 

I would not mind going back to world war 2 dress.......as in everthing similar, except the epaulet sleeves are a different color than the jacket.  It would not be hard at all.  Vanguard could even sell the conversion kits!

[Ned]

True, but nobody knows exactly who I am, either! 

You know better than that, sir.

[Eagle400]

True, but nobody knows exactly who I am, either! 

You know better than that, sir.

Having some of that 'cadet brew' you've cooked up over at the house, eh?

Yes, you and I both know what I'm talking about.   

[Major Carrales]

I think I am me??  In fact I know I am me.....no one else is me but me! 

I'm gonna tell you you something profound...this thing you have said here, it the only thing you can ever be truely sure off.

[ddelaney103]

We can throw a lot of ideas around, but in the end we have two types of changes:

- Changes we can make ourselves

- Changes we have to ask "Mother may I" to big blue

In the spirit of "One Team, One Fight, One Epaulet"  we should move the TPU uniform to gray epaulets.  It minimizes variants ("so I wear the gray epaulets with the white shirt, right?" "Well, that depends on your pants...") it increases uniformity and reduces expenses.  It's also the only change we can do with only some hand waving from the NB/NEC.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Here's my take on this, and I'm sure some of you may disagree.

CAP isn't the Air Force.  We were CAP before the Air Force even was the Air Force.  We are volunteers, and in another time we would be called "Militia."  (Before the ultra-right armed gangs hijacked the term)  We are the ONLY military auxiliary force that saw actual combat, and one of only two military auxiliaries from World War II that survived to the present day.

We serve for the sheer honor and pleasure of service.  We accept the community recognition as our sole reward.

We understand that our contribution to national defense is either peripheral (Taking duties such as SAR that would otherwise tie up Air Force resources and divert them from warfighting); or delayed, in that the benefits of the cadet training program will be realized years into the future.

I, personally, am pretty darned proud to be a CAP officer.  I was an RLO (Real, Live, Officer) and was actually paid to do what I do.  But now I do it out of love of country and for the honor of service.  As such, I DESERVE a special insignia. 

Those gray epaulets are just fine with me. 

[LtCol White]

Colonel White, what is that last ribbon on your rack?

It is the GA NG Humanitarian Service award. We rec'd those in response to a snow and ice storm when we transported doctors and nurses back and forth from work and home as well as medical supplies from the warehouses to the hospitals. We were able to keep 4 atlanta hospitals running at normal capacity. GA National Guard awarded all of us this ribbon.

[mikeylikey]

^  Cool!