By the Ripple

[Austin Higley]

Is there a regulation pertaining to how cadets are supposed to stand in line? My Squadron has always used by the ripple (parade rest, but snap to attention when an officer walks by) when cadets are in line, but I've heard that there is no such thing in the US military. Is this something that has a pertaining regulation or is it a do as you want thing?

Thanks,
C/2dLt Austin Higley
Southside Composite Squadron, MER-VA-060

[abdsp51]

Your question is vague as there are numerous answers that can be given.  Have you looked at the afman or even our own protocol guidance?

[Austin Higley]

I have looked through the AFMAN 36-2203 and couldn't find anything mentioning this. What do you mean by "our own protocol guidance?" 

[Mitchell 1969]

A little help? What do mean by "in line?" In formation, or waiting to slurp at the drinking fountain? At McDonalds or in a military dining facility? Indoors, outdoors? For some purpose, or just waiting because everybody has to be somewhere on this planet?

[NIN]

There really is none. Local guidance.

[Capt Thompson]

As I remember, at Encampment, while in line at the mess hall we stood at parade rest. When the line moved forward, we came to attention, took a few steps forward, then back to parade rest. Any time an officer walked by, someone would yell out "make a hole" and everyone would naturally come to attention until he passed or said as you were.

Standing in the hallway of your Squadron HQ and an officer walks by, no matter how you're standing, some to attention until he/she passes or says as you were.

[LSThiker]

There are no prescribed manners of standing in line.  Other than specific training schools, practically no one in the military cares how you stand in a line. 

[TexasBEAST]

Is there a regulation pertaining to how cadets are supposed to stand in line? My Squadron has always used by the ripple (parade rest, but snap to attention when an officer walks by) when cadets are in line, but I've heard that there is no such thing in the US military. Is this something that has a pertaining regulation or is it a do as you want thing?

I was a cadet in the late '80s through mid-'90s, and that "By the Ripple" stuff sounds familiar. We used it at our encampments, as well. I believe that I remember reading about that procedure in the Lackland AFB BMT handbook or operating instruction for airman basics. If so, it was strictly a local custom, and not a widespread standard at all.

I analyzed the procedure as a cadet and wondered exactly when cadets are supposed to transition from single file as part of their flights, to going by the ripple. There always seemed to be a vague point where this transition occurred.

And it was always awkward when people stood right in the middle of a doorway to the dining facility (DFac), trying to maintain a position of parade rest while reading the encampment handbook, and simultaneously propping the door open! 

[LSThiker]

Standing in the hallway of your Squadron HQ and an officer walks by, no matter how you're standing, some to attention until he/she passes or says as you were.

Care to provide a regulation for this assertion?

Do not know why I was having a hard time finding the old "Myths and Legends" page, but this situation was on it:

Hitting the wall

Myth:     If you're in a corridor, and an officer walks toward you, you have to "hit the wall" by placing your back and heels against the wall and standing at attention as the officer walks by.

Truth:    Cadets must "stand" when an officer enters the room, and traditionally that has been interpreted to mean stand at attention.  But when passing by an officer, there is no obligation to come to attention.  To be polite and respectful, a cadet would render a greeting such as "Good morning, sir."  Of course salutes are not exchanged inside, except when formally reporting (Ref: CAPP 151, 2d).

The same with "by your leave, sir/ma'am"

By Your Leave

Myth:     If two officers are conversing in a corridor, and a cadet needs to pass by them or through them, the cadet must halt, come to attention, and say, "By your leave, sir."

Truth:    There is no reference for this in CAPP 151, or the CAP Drill & Ceremonies Manual (AFMAN 36-2203).  Here too, a polite and respectful cadet would pass the officers and simply say, "Excuse me, sirs" or something similar.  There's no need to make the officers interrupt their conversation by waiting for them to verbally grant you permission to pass through.

[Capt Thompson]

You're talking about walking down a hall opposing an officer, vs. a group of Cadets standing in a hall conversing while an officer is walking by. In the latter situation, the group would come to attention as they would when an officer enters the room.

I'll look for a reg when I get the chance, but this was the practice at our Squadron, as well as my basic encampment. Was also how things were done in Army JROTC and at every activity I attended there, although I realize that doesn't matter here.

[LSThiker]

I'll look for a reg when I get the chance, but this was the practice at our Squadron, as well as my basic encampment. Was also how things were done in Army JROTC and at every activity I attended there, although I realize that doesn't matter here.

You are correct, it does not matter here.  It is a myth.  Re-read that first myth situation.  It is exactly as you described as the "officer is walking toward the cadet(s).  The second myth situation is a cadet walking toward a group of officers.

[Plane]

My squadron has always taught us to come to attention when an officer passed you regardless of what position you were in before.

[lordmonar]

My squadron has always taught us to come to attention when an officer passed you regardless of what position you were in before.

Hence the Myth part...that LStriker is talking about.

[abdsp51]

Sounds like the standby thing in tech school. 

[lordmonar]

Sounds like the standby thing in tech school.

Oh...I know exactly what they are talking about.   In basic training if we were standing line (like chow or waiting to process)we would stand at parade rest.  When the guy in front of us moved up...we would come to attention and then take one step forward and go back to parade rest.   "By the Ripple".

Just like Stand-By at tech school.....it had a purpose.....sort of....but the rule only existed in the minds of the TIs and or STAs. (MTLs now).

And like wise....the whole stand at attention in the hallways smells of Academy Games to me.   We simply don't do it on AD or in training AFAIK.   If you are in the way of a superior.....it is courtesy to get out of their way....but that means just moving off to the side...you don't have to stop, you don't have to come to attention, you don't have ask permission, you don't even have to offer a greeting....but it is not disallowed.

We got enough real rules for C&C that we don't need to be making up more BS.   It is a pain in the butt as it is.....answering "good evening cadet" to each and every one of my cadets I pass in the hall.....some of them 4-5 times in a bloody 2 1/2 hour meeting.

[arajca]

We got enough real rules for C&C that we don't need to be making up more BS.   It is a pain in the butt as it is.....answering "good evening cadet" to each and every one of my cadets I pass in the hall.....some of them 4-5 times in a bloody 2 1/2 hour meeting.

The trick is to have another senior with you, talking, so all you need to do is nod an acknowledgement.

[abdsp51]

Or just say knock it off.  There were alot of isms I tried to nip in the rear at my last units along these lines. 

[lordmonar]

Or just say knock it off.  There were alot of isms I tried to nip in the rear at my last units along these lines.

Oh I try.   But as soon as you get one of the to understand that one a night is enough.  Two Mir seem to pop up. And the as soon as encampment is over they are all back yo Doug it at about 100Dbm!

[Mitchell 1969]

I'll look for a reg when I get the chance, but this was the practice at our Squadron, as well as my basic encampment. Was also how things were done in Army JROTC and at every activity I attended there, although I realize that doesn't matter here.

You are correct, it does not matter here.  It is a myth.  Re-read that first myth situation.  It is exactly as you described as the "officer is walking toward the cadet(s).  The second myth situation is a cadet walking toward a group of officers.

Maybe not so much "myth" as it is "outdated practice." Myths were never true. This stuff was. It carried over to aviation cadets from West Poont. From aviation cadets it was a short step into CAP of the 40's - 60's.

Personally, at a mass training event where time is short, (encampment), I see value in the  "parade rest - attention - step forward - parade rest" process. Keeps everyone orderly, quiet and not blocking foot traffic. But it's like any of the other "encampment only" expedients - it has to be made clear that it's not required when they are using the water fountain at the squadron or ordering their Big Mac after the meeting.

[LSThiker]

Maybe not so much "myth" as it is "outdated practice." Myths were never true. This stuff was.

Not to get too much into a semantics games, but I would not say myths were never true.

Myths can be true in the sense of metaphorically or symbolically, but are false in factual and literary senses.  They can be true in accepted practice, but false factually. 

How long it takes for an "outdated practice" to turn to myth is entirely subjective.  Most people today would say Greek Gods are just myths.  However, go back to the ancient Greeks and they were true.  Go a few decades after the fall of Greek Gods and people would say it was pagan belief or an outdated practice.


And do not get me wrong, there is some benefit to the ripple method.  As you said, it keeps every one quiet and orderly, but then so does "hey everyone stand near the wall and keep quiet" concept.  Of course, mileage varies in the success of that method.  This is why it is used in specific training schools.  However, the problem lies when those methods become accepted fact "as per regulations".  Unfortunately, even when it is made clear, it will still become "accepted fact". 

As Pat mentioned, we and the military have many nuances to C&C that it becomes difficult to just manage the correct ones.  I do not know how many times I have told people that room full of officers are never called to attention when the commander walks in.  It is instead "ladies and gentleman, the commander".

[UWONGO2]

There is a cadet-turned-senior who has a great presentation on CAP myths. He includes a funny story about how CAP teaches cadets raise their hands and how it got him noticed when he was going through the Air Force's basic training.

The jumping to the wall and standing at attention drives me nuts. So does saluting a flag on a flag pole every time they walk by one. The about face to fall out is specially called out as unnecessary in one of our pamphlets, yet I see lots of squadrons doing it.

[almostspaatz]

There is a cadet-turned-senior who has a great presentation on CAP myths. He includes a funny story about how CAP teaches cadets raise their hands and how it got him noticed when he was going through the Air Force's basic training.

C/Col William Craig?

[LSThiker]

There is a cadet-turned-senior who has a great presentation on CAP myths. He includes a funny story about how CAP teaches cadets raise their hands and how it got him noticed when he was going through the Air Force's basic training.

The jumping to the wall and standing at attention drives me nuts. So does saluting a flag on a flag pole every time they walk by one. The about face to fall out is specially called out as unnecessary in one of our pamphlets, yet I see lots of squadrons doing it.

You mean the right arm must have a 90-degree bend for it to be considered "raised"?  I love that one too.

Oh the fallout dance.  I was successful in eliminating that from my wing for about a year.  Then it returned

[NIN]

See, here's what kills me (and I see this once a week):

We have a name for something (a "ripple line") (awesome. It has a name)

Cadets get all wrapped around the axle about how you're supposed successfully execute this "ripple line" (you know, the thing that nobody can seem to find in a manual, pub, etc)

So cadets seem to be incredibly intimately familiar with the entire convoluted process of this "ripple line": forming the line, managing the line, giving people a hard time for not doing it right, etc.

Meanwhile, what we're actually doing is lining up 45-55 cadets in a SINGLE FILE LINE to sign in on a unit sign in sheet that is actually comprised of three separate sheets of paper. 

Instead looking at the situation and considering the process and the intended results, and maybe doing something like busting the line into three chunks by last name so three cadets at a time can be doing their sign in on the three separate sheets, we'd rather break everybody's chops for not stepping forward and assuming parade rest in exactly the right way while we eat up 20-30 minutes of our training time...

I know I left a forest out here someplace, but all these darn trees are in the way.