POLL: Time in Grade for Cadets

[Cadetter]

Have seen the nepotism, spread out, a lot during my limited experience. If an NCO doesn't know left from right - bingo they don't have the ability or experience to be an NCO.

Of course there are flaws with it. As there are with everything.

Maybe, relinquo.

[jeders]

Of course there are flaws with it. As there are with everything.

And there are many more flaws with what you are advocating than with the system we have now. So why should we adopt your system?

Yes I have, have you ever heard of reality? Because that is what you need to be judging things on, not a pie in the sky dream.

Thank you for agreeing that your argument has no foundation.

You've been an adult have you?

So if you know that incompetent cadets are promoted by well-intentioned commanders, and you know that leaders need some real BTDT experience, why are you continuing to advocate for this change?

So if c/A1C Seventeen really is the best, then appoint him to a leadership position; but don't short change him by promoting him beyond his experience or abilities.

-Jed Taylor
Former fast burning test banker

Yes, I have not, no, because I am very stubborn, and precisely what I am saying.

You might try operating their instead of semi-real idealism (read dreaming); actually you did, you just don't realize it; once you are, you'll see why what your advocating is such a bad idea; all the more reason to stop; it really isn't, I'm saying appoint, you're saying fundamentally change the promotion system.

The reason I said max of flight sergeant is because that is, in my opinion, the most logical thing in the hypothetical case - obviously having an inexperienced cadet commander is a poor idea, but flight sergeant is an entry-level leadership position.

Flight sergeant is absolutely NOT an entry level leadership position. Perhaps you've not understood your leadership material as well as you think you have. The entry level leadership position is being a follower, an in-flight cadet. You must learn to follow, and that includes waiting a respectable period of time before you advance either in grade or to a position of greater responsibility. From there, you become an assistant element leader, then an element leader, and then a flight sergeant (ideally of course). At each step you must spend time waiting and learning before you are ready to progress.

Now, if you just want to advance people who are capable of an entry level leadership position, then I'm all in favor of it. As soon as the membership app is processed, we'll move you all the way up to in-flight cadet. But from there, you have to spend time learning.

Seriously though, if you want to just be stubborn and waste electrons arguing this out, Eclipse and usafaux will be more than happy to oblige you. If, however, you really believe that this idea is a good one and is in the best interest of CAP and the cadets involved, please spend more time thinking it out. Your own words here have shown that you have not fully thought it out and that it is a solution, and a potentially awful one at that, in search of a problem. I'm not saying this to be mean or disparaging, I say it because part of the purpose of the leadership lab is to teach critical thinking; something that you have shown a great lack of with this proposal.

[Cadetter]

Seriously though, if you want to just be stubborn and waste electrons arguing this out, Eclipse and usafaux will be more than happy to oblige you. If, however, you really believe that this idea is a good one and is in the best interest of CAP and the cadets involved, please spend more time thinking it out. Your own words here have shown that you have not fully thought it out and that it is a solution, and a potentially awful one at that, in search of a problem. I'm not saying this to be mean or disparaging, I say it because part of the purpose of the leadership lab is to teach critical thinking; something that you have shown a great lack of with this proposal.

Wasting time, actually. I am a critical thinker. I'm hardly proposing that this be changed to what I'm thinking because it is brainstorming. NOT a plan. If this was really a plan, then I would seriously doubt the sanity of holding the position I do. Besides, the idea that I think is better geared is what I posted earlier -

1 month in CAP for first stripe
4 months for Curry-Arnold, and Arnold-Feik
Wright Brothers any time after that
3 months for Wright Brothers-TSgt, TSgt-MSgt, MSgt-SMSgt, SMSgt-Goddard
2 months for Goddard-Armstrong
Mitchell any time after that
2 months for 2dLt-2dLt
1stLt any time after that
2 months 1stLt-1stLt
Earhart any time after that
1 month for Capt-Capt, and Capt-Capt
Major any time after that
1 month for Maj-Maj and Maj-Maj
Eaker any time after that
Spaatz any time after that

Roughly 32 months (assuming "any time after that is ~6 days.)

[abdsp51]

And this is why we have issues in the program. 

[lordmonar]

^ Yes, and the ones who do, would never consider the idea.

Are CAP CC's inconsistently trained and many times chosen based on physical presence?

Yes.

Which is why the program, especially on the cadet side, is standardized, and leaves little room for people to be "special".

Me and Eclipse don't agree often......but in this case we do 100%.

We get what you are saying.   In fact a few years back the CP types actually drafted a proposal to "fast track" or allow older cadets to "challenge" the test......so your hypothetical older more mature 16 year old could speed through the lower ranks.

The general consensus was that it was an "okay" idea but would cause more problems then it would fix.

I've been doing this for 10+ years.....maybe.....maybe.....it would have helped two or three cadets...and the squadron too....but that's it tops.

[Cadetter]

Beating a dead horse.

[PHall]

Or maybe they know what they're talking about and you refuse to listen.

[Cadetter]

Listened to and agree with them. Ego is one of my main vices.

[Cadetter]

And thusly a textbook example of appointing a cadet to a position inappropriate to his grade and experience.

I get the point, sir.

[Johnny Yuma]

The way we have it set up is perfect, let's not reinvent the wheel.

A cadet CAN progress every 2 months. Just because he's done all the tasks doesn't mean he's automatically promotable. That's why we have promotion boards and commander's discretion. In the case of promotions below Mitchell, I believe the question the board and commander should ask is why shouldn't they promote, while the question for cadet officers should be why they should be promoted.

[Storm Chaser]

In my experience, many (most?) cadets who want to promote faster than the minimum time-in-grade requirement are those who probably need more time before they should be promoted anyway. A cadet may be knowledgeable and mature, but gaining experience still takes time. That's one of the reasons we have TIG requirements.

[Cadetter]

Agreed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

In my experience, many (most?) cadets who want to promote faster than the minimum time-in-grade requirement are those who probably need more time before they should be promoted anyway. A cadet may be knowledgeable and mature, but gaining experience still takes time. That's one of the reasons we have TIG requirements.

Dealing with that right now. Courtesy of the former leadership that bent over backwards to get cadets in, within the minimum time, even if the cadets attempt to complete the whole achievement in the final week of the cycle...