PT

[ilovecap]

So there's this overweight cadet in my squadron. Hes great at leadership, excellent in aerospace, very respected cadet in the squadron. For some reason he gets his PT waived when he promotes every two months. He isnt sick, or injured, hes just overweight. He has a goal of earning his Spaatz award. Is it possible for him to make his Spaatz without doing PT. Or will be eventually need to do PT sometime when he reaches the command phase. I know the PT standards for Spaatz are high. I'm pretty sure the PT for Spaatz can't be waived or maybe I'm wrong. Can you get your PT waived when you're overweight or do you need to actually work hard to pass PT and get in shape.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Without knowing the full situation (and chances are you don't know the full situation), the answer is yes, it is possible to test and pass the Spaatz without doing PT.

You see an overweight cadet, but there might be a medical condition that is beyond his control, with weight gain being one of the results of said condition.

CAPR 52-16 allows for obesity to be used as a cause for a commander to assign a cadet to Cat II. It should be reevaluated regularly, but that could be just one reason. A doctor could have provided a note for the cadet when he joined, either putting him into Cat II, III, or IV. Again, he may have an underlying condition which either permanently or temporarily places him there.

My first example can be used in a situation where a new cadet comes into the program, but is obese/overweight. If that cadet struggles to pass PT, then the commander may place him or her in a category II, pending further review down the road (usually no more than 6 months) with the cadet working on his fitness to be able to promote further. A cadet in this case can participate and promote, but does need to get into shape before the Cat II goes away. That said, a cadet in a category II cannot test for a milestone award as per 52-16.

A cadet in Cat III or IV CAN test for milestones, but when it comes to Spaatz, there is apparently a process where there is a request for a lot more medical information from the doctor to verify the category.

So short answer, yes it is possible. Long answer, you don't have all the facts and it can go a number of ways.


Here's the "straight from the horse" scenario:

a. Assigning Cadets to Fitness Categories.

(1) Initial Assignment. The squadron commander assigns each cadet to a physical
fitness category when the cadet joins CAP, based on the information the cadet includes on his or her
CAPF 15, Application for Cadet Membership in Civil Air Patrol.
(2) Subsequent Assignments. If the cadet's medical condition changes, the squadron
commander confers with the cadet's parents and/or physician and reassigns the cadet to the
appropriate fitness category. See CAPP 52-18 for a suggested fitness category assignment form.
(3) Spaatz Award Exam. Cadets assigned to Category III or IV must provide
documentation supporting their restricted status, endorsed by their physician and unit commander,
when attempting the Spaatz Award exam. National Headquarters may consult with the cadet's
physician to verify if the assignment to Category III or IV is warranted. See CAPP 52-18 for a
suggested form.


b. Category I – Unrestricted. Cadets assigned to Category I are in good health and may
participate in the physical fitness program without restriction.
c. Category II – Temporarily Restricted. Cadets assigned to Category II are temporarily
restricted from all or part of the Cadet Physical Fitness Training (CPFT) due to a temporary
condition or injury. Temporary conditions include broken bones, post-operative recovery, obesity
and illness. Normally, cadets will not exceed 6 months in this category without their condition being
re-evaluated. To qualify for promotions while assigned to Category II, cadets must pass the CPFT
events from which they are not restricted, with waived events being scored as a "pass" (see paragraph
5-8). However, cadets may not earn milestone awards while assigned to this category; they must
wait until they return to Category I, or meet the Category III or IV criteria described below.
d. Category III – Partially Restricted. Cadets assigned to Category III are indefinitely or
permanently restricted from a portion of the cadet physical fitness program due to a medical
condition or injury that is chronic or permanent in nature, as certified by a physician. Cadets are still
required to complete and pass the CPFT events from which they are not restricted.
e. Category IV – Indefinitely Restricted. Cadets assigned to Category IV are indefinitely or
permanently restricted from participation in the entire physical fitness program due to a medical
condition or injury, as certified by a physician. Cadets in this category are exempt from all CPFT
requirements indefinitely.

[a2capt]

As stated, you might not know the whole story.

But unit leadership can waive between milestones.

One scenario might be the cadet is working on it, but that kind of thing isn't going to happen overnight. We've worked with cadets, particularly in Phase I that are themselves working to get up to passing it themselves, but can't quite do it yet, and have shown traits for promotion otherwise.

In short, they're participating and advancing, and working at what needs improvement, and with the uniqueness of PT in all this, it's better for the cadet to allow them to advance, PT withstanding.

However an narrative from a doctor will be needed to go past the next milestone, and ultimately that may be on file for the whole thing.

Do they have an unfair advantage? Perhaps some might think so. But remember, they're not the ones with the stigma of -not- being able to pass it on their own. I'm willing to bet that cadet really would rather not be a "stand out".

[MSG Mac]

As stated earlier, you cannot tell a person's physical at first glance. A few years ago I had a 14 year old girl in my squadron, who had two heart attacks within a year. Another was born with only half an arm. First is Class IV, second Class III

[skywise123]

As stated, you might not know the whole story.

But unit leadership can waive between milestones.

One scenario might be the cadet is working on it, but that kind of thing isn't going to happen overnight. We've worked with cadets, particularly in Phase I that are themselves working to get up to passing it themselves, but can't quite do it yet, and have shown traits for promotion otherwise.

In short, they're participating and advancing, and working at what needs improvement, and with the uniqueness of PT in all this, it's better for the cadet to allow them to advance, PT withstanding.

However an narrative from a doctor will be needed to go past the next milestone, and ultimately that may be on file for the whole thing.

Do they have an unfair advantage? Perhaps some might think so. But remember, they're not the ones with the stigma of -not- being able to pass it on their own. I'm willing to bet that cadet really would rather not be a "stand out".

I sure wish my son could pass PT.  But its been over a year and he hasn't passed yet, and has another birthday and even harder requirements soon.  My son attends most meetings and is especially good at AE but he just can't do the PT thing.  He is very discouraged.  We are working with him - running, joining a gym, personal trainer - but it has been bitterly slow.  He's gone from no push-ups to 5 over the year, and can at least finish the mile now but not under time.  Even I can't do the shuttle run so there's no hope there.  He's ready to give up, and if he can't get promoted by his birthday in just over a month, I'm probably going to let him. 

I'm not really sure why so much hinges on this test when you can get an exemption?  If you can get disabled and be a member, then it shouldn't matter. 

[Eclipse]

I'm not really sure why so much hinges on this test when you can get an exemption?  If you can get disabled and be a member, then it shouldn't matter.

If you are disabled and put in CAT III or IV, you have been evaluated by a physician who attests to your limitations.
CAT II, III, & IV are pretty unusual for cadets who are otherwise healthy, and reasonably active.  The restrictions
are meant to be exceptions.  I have been a leader in CAP for nearly 15 years and know of only a few cadets who
have ever been placed in these categories.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18942.msg347907#msg347907

This...

He's gone from no push-ups to 5 over the year, and can at least finish the mile now...

...is why it matters, and you should not let him quit.

[Ned]

I sure wish my son could pass PT.  But its been over a year and he hasn't passed yet, and has another birthday and even harder requirements soon. 

I'm not really sure why so much hinges on this test when you can get an exemption?  If you can get disabled and be a member, then it shouldn't matter.

I'm truly sorry to hear that your son is getting discouraged.  That has got to be a tough situation for him.

The CPFT is aligned with the President's Challenge, and was designed so that about 75% of young Americans of your son's age would be able to meet the standard without much difficulty.  It sounds like he is one of the "1 in 4" that are initially challenged by the test.

It also sounds like you are doing everything I could reasonably expect a parent to do to support their cadet - gym membership, running, etc.  There is only one other resource I can suggest, and that is our CAP Pamphlet 52-18 , The Cadet Physical Fitness Program, which has some pretty good chapters with advice about fitness training and nutrition.

Don't give up on the shuttle run so soon - a lot of cadets find it easier and simpler than running the full mile.  But as you suggest, it has a little more "technique" to it than simply running the mile. 

I'd be surprised if the squadron leadership had not tried to work with your son and even given some individual coaching and encouragement.  And from your description, there has been significant improvement over the last year.

I guess my point is to encourage your son to hang in there if he is enjoying the program otherwise.  Some cadets do not show at their best in on-line testing.  Others do not present well as they would like at promotion boards.  But a large part of what we try to do as CAP leaders is to challenge all cadets, and bring them along as best as we (and they) can.

Ned Lee
Cadet Prgram Enthusiast

[AirAux]

Unfortunately when the President's Challenge was established, not 1/3 of the teens were overweight or obese.  Perhaps we need different standards today.  Further, if we allowed recess and gym in school anymore, perhaps we would return to the days of lean healthy youngsters...

[Eclipse]

Further, if we allowed recess and gym in school anymore, perhaps we would return to the days of lean healthy youngsters...

My kids did recess every day up until 5th grade, and in middle school have fairly "rigorous" PE classes including a timed mile run and
the other typical gym-class type activities.  This is normal for public schools at least in the district and surrounding areas.

Where I personally see most of the issue is >after< school.  With a lot of their peers burying their faces in a screen from the minute
the bell rings to whenever they finally put their head on a pillow.

[jeders]

Where I personally see most of the issue is >after< school.  With a lot of their peers burying their faces in a screen from the minute
the bell rings to whenever they finally put their head on a pillow.

+1

My daughter is going through the same school district I did, and I can tell you that if anything PE has gotten more rigorous. And just like when I was in school, there are kids now who spend all their free time doing athletics and sports, and as a result they're in excellent shape. And there are also kids who do the bare minimum amount of physical activity to survive and are therefore in terrible shape.

Going back to skywise's son, even if he does decide to quit CAP (which I absolutely don't want, it sounds to me like that would be a great loss for both him and CAP), at the very least this is setting some good foundations for healthier living for the rest of his life. PE in school and PT in CAP is what it is, but unless you are motivated to exercise on your own free time and not spend hours blasting away space aliens or being a cyber twit, you'll never be able to have a truly healthy lifestyle.

[Alaric]

Unfortunately when the President's Challenge was established, not 1/3 of the teens were overweight or obese.  Perhaps we need different standards today.  Further, if we allowed recess and gym in school anymore, perhaps we would return to the days of lean healthy youngsters...

Perhaps we shouldn't be depending on the schools to make healthy choices for our children. 

[Eclipse]

Unfortunately when the President's Challenge was established, not 1/3 of the teens were overweight or obese.  Perhaps we need different standards today.  Further, if we allowed recess and gym in school anymore, perhaps we would return to the days of lean healthy youngsters...

Perhaps we shouldn't be depending on the schools to make healthy choices for our children.

Agreed. Far too many parents are letting the school raise their kids and think that learning and life skills begin and end with the school bell.
It's very sad, and the problems start really surfacing around cadet-age, because that is when kids start getting an opinion and some independence.

I'm seeing it in my 12.75 year old - his physiology is pushing him to lay around and sleep all day, and tinge most conversations with a little 'tude,
but his muscle memory pulls him back on track.  Absent the guard rails, I could see him veering into the grass quickly and having a hard time getting out.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

The CPFT is aligned with the President's Challenge, and was designed so that about 75% of young Americans of your son's age would be able to meet the standard without much difficulty.  It sounds like he is one of the "1 in 4" that are initially challenged by the test.

I wrote this as part of a paper on CAP retention issues for the 2014 NSC. (Bold added.)

The cadet portion of the Exit Survey had one direct and a few indirect references to inability to pass the Cadet Physical Fitness Test (CPFT) as a reason for leaving CAP. Several members of this seminar had personal experience with this being a reason as well. One case was a cadet who was unable to progress past the Mitchell Award due to CPFT but passed the AFROTC physical training requirements and is currently an Air Force A-10 pilot.

Excluding the addition of the "run plus two out of three" rule around 2006 the CPFT has not changed in close to two decades. Sadly the fitness profile of the American youth has changed in that time and not for the better. Furthermore, the CPFT is based on the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports Test, which was discontinued after the 2013 school year.

CAPR 52-16 para 1-7c (1) states, "The goal of the Cadet Program's fitness element is to develop in cadets a habit of regular exercise." If the CPFT is driving some out of the cadet program, which may be their only peer group extolling the benefits of a fit lifestyle and providing role models that do,  then we are failing in that goal.

We recommend that all attempts of the CPFT are recorded in eServices. This would provide the National Cadet Programs Staff with metrics to evaluate and perhaps modify the CPFT to align with the goal of the fitness element if they are out of synch. Changes to the CPFT might include changing the targets and / or allowing cadets to advance if they are making progress toward the standard. This recommendation involves programming changes to eServices, so implementation would require funding that development. This one time investment would allow CAP to monitor the CPFT going forward.

[Ned]

The National CP crew is well aware of the recent changes to the President's Challenge, and along with the NCAC is working overtime to ensure that the CPFT remains current, externally validated, and easy to administer.

So, I rather expect that we will see a new or substantially revamped CPFT as the CP community attempts to find another actual dataset for Americans in our age cohort (12 - 20.99).

In the meantime, we are certainly open to suggestions on a new or modified CPFT.

Our basic criteria:

1.  The test should be easy to administer on a typical unit meeting night.  IOW, it should not take more than an hour to run the squadron through.

2.  The test should not require any specialized equipment to administer beyond commonly available tools like tape measures and watches.  It should not require laptops, lasers, or a swimming pool.  Don't make the Testing Officer pore over multiple tables and perform calculations with her stubby pencil in the dark parking lot.

3.  The standards should be easy to understand.  ("So easy a senior could understand it.")

4.  It should be "winter friendly" -- IOW, units that meet in areas that commonly accumulate snow should be able to conduct a CPFT.

5.  To the maximum extent possible it should be based directly upon externally generated and validated standards for young people in our age group.

6.  For bonus points, try to make it fun.   


Ned Lee

[BHartman007]

I've been doing to PT at our squadron for almost a year. If I were to make tweaks to the current program, I would lessen the mile run times, or shorten it to a 1/4 mile. Even some of my fit cadets have a hard time hitting the times. I would also get rid of the silly 3 second cadence on the pushups. I've never heard of anyone who works out only doing one pushup in 3 seconds. Just make it a max effort on a time limit like curl ups are. I think the whole sit and reach thing is a bit unnecessary. People usually pass that by a wide margin on the first try.

[NC Hokie]

You asked for it, Ned...

1) Dump the in-cadence pushups.  I've seen cadets capable of banging out 30+ good pushups fail miserably to reach 20 in-cadence pushups.

2) Reduce the mile run to a 1/2 mile run.  This would take less time to administer, lower the amount of recovery time needed, and decrease the likelihood of heat related injuries.

3) Go to a total point system for the CPFT instead of the current run plus two out of three.  I believe that we'd see a sharp decrease in the amount of cadets quitting over the CPFT if there was a way to make up for being a poor runner by excelling at the other parts of the CPFT (or vice versa).  Yes, this may violate your "simple to administer" rule (although it doesn't necessarily have to), but what's most important; ease of administration or developing DAALs?

[LSThiker]

I would disagree with changing the mile.  I entered CAP running a 10 min mile and left the cadet program running a 5:45 min mile.  I would agree with getting rid of the 3s cadence for push-ups.  The standards need to be challenging.  The biggest problem is not the standards, but rather today's society.

[Ned]

You asked for it, Ned...

1) Dump the in-cadence pushups. [. . .]

2) Reduce the mile run to a 1/2 mile run.  [ . . .]

3) Go to a total point system [. . .]

Good input.

But remember that one of the key features of the CPFT is that it is tied to real world data (or at least it was until they stopped supporting the test a few months ago).  The "three second pushup" for the CPFT came about only because that was the way that the President's Challenge did it -- and they were the only national physical training dataset we could find.  We had to compare apples to apples for our test to be valid.

Similarly, we used the mile run because the mile run was what the data supported.

If we just pull things out of the air, we will almost certainly run into issues.  Otherwise we run into this problem:

"I think a Spaatz cadet should be able to run a mile in  . . . say, six minutes.  How does that sound?"  "No, a Spaatz cadet is the epitome of a Dynamic American Aerospace Leader -- the time should clearly be 5:30.  Yeah, that's the ticket."

Your ideas are certainly helpful.   We wouldn't mind some more help in locating and evaluating exisiting successful youth physical fitness testing programs that cover our age group.

Any ideas?

[Eclipse]

1) Dump the in-cadence pushups.  I've seen cadets capable of banging out 30+ good pushups fail miserably to reach 20 in-cadence pushups.

One could argue that those aren't, in fact "good" pushups, which is the point.

[LSThiker]

One could argue that those aren't, in fact "good" pushups, which is the point.

One could argue that, but would be hard pressed to make a good case.  The military does not use a 3s cadence.  I typically averaged around 80%-85% on my APFT.  I decided to try the 3s push-ups just to see when it was first rolled out, I had a hard time accomplishing it.  Although with time, maybe I could accomplish a decent score using the 3s cadence.