Volunteer-Only Attitude in Cadets

[Archer]

I have a perspective cadet who's stated that he's not really interested in the whole "learning modules and promoting thing." He's fine with learning the drill, proper uniform wear, courtesies, and all the other operationally necessary parts, but that he's just not interested in learning things just to test and promote. He said he's wants to be there just to volunteer his time and service to the Air Force and CAP(not his words, but I assume that means doing SAR and supporting air shows and whatnot). Now I want to be honest with the kid, is that attitude gonna fly(get it?) in this organization or would it be best for everyone involved to tell him either wait a year and become an FO on his 18th and/or hit up the local USCGAUX flotilla in the mean time?

[Brad]

May want to make him aware of CAPR 35-3 that lists "Failure to progress satisfactorily in the CAP cadet program" as one of the causes for membership termination, HOWEVER that is not one of the automatic reasons, so it is left to the commander to initiate termination for that, or not at all.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

You need to forget the idea that it's all about the cadet side of the house because he is under eighteen, and focus on the idea of training him in the areas he's concerned about.

Gotta be blunt.

The thing about it is, even if he busts out a few promotions, what does that do for him? He's still going to be C/SMsgt at the highest, which doesn't help him at all once he flips to the Senior side of the house. The guy wants to learn all of the drill, uniform, ES, C&C, so teach him that!
You have a chance to turn this guy into a Senior member asset that would not only support your cadet program, but understand it as well. He can stay C/Amn Skippy for the year (in  my opinion), but he should still go to encampment as a student, go on every ES training he can be there for, and get himself operationally ready to be a Senior Member.

When you are twelve to fourteen and have the chance to make Spaatz, go to national activities, go to IACE and all that jazz, promotions and that sort of thing are critical, because you still have so much you can get out of the program. Unfortunately he, (and myself when I was his age) doesn't stand much to gain through all the studying and time-sucking promotion check-offs.

If you want to terminate a guy because he doesn't want to waste his time, and wants to use it effectively on training he'll use in the future, that's your and your commander's decision. I was in that position as a cadet, and I would never have come back to CAP if you did that to me.

I recommend you show him how your side of the house works from the ground up, teach him everything he wants to know, and train him how to be an excellent CP officer in the future (one that actually cares about all the things Seniors usually don't care about  ). Just my 2 cents worth...

[Brad]

You need to forget the idea that it's all about the cadet side of the house because he is under eighteen, and focus on the idea of training him in the areas he's concerned about.

Gotta be blunt.

The thing about it is, even if he busts out a few promotions, what does that do for him? He's still going to be C/SMsgt at the highest, which doesn't help him at all once he flips to the Senior side of the house. The guy wants to learn all of the drill, uniform, ES, C&C, so teach him that!
You have a chance to turn this guy into a Senior member asset that would not only support your cadet program, but understand it as well. He can stay C/Amn Skippy for the year (in  my opinion), but he should still go to encampment as a student, go on every ES training he can be there for, and get himself operationally ready to be a Senior Member.

When you are twelve to fourteen and have the chance to make Spaatz, go to national activities, go to IACE and all that jazz, promotions and that sort of thing are critical, because you still have so much you can get out of the program. Unfortunately he, (and myself when I was his age) doesn't stand much to gain through all the studying and time-sucking promotion check-offs.

If you want to terminate a guy because he doesn't want to waste his time, and wants to use it effectively on training he'll use in the future, that's your and your commander's decision. I was in that position as a cadet, and I would never have come back to CAP if you did that to me.

I recommend you show him how your side of the house works from the ground up, teach him everything he wants to know, and train him how to be an excellent CP officer in the future (one that actually cares about all the things Seniors usually don't care about  ). Just my 2 cents worth...

There ya go. Brain hasn't reached cruise altitude yet, heh. Yea this is exactly the scenario a flight officer rank is intended to address, preparing cadets to become senior members, but just because he's not 18 yet doesn't mean you can start working with him on planning out a solid CAP career as a senior member.

[coudano]

He has an attitude problem, and it's going to be disruptive to the other cadets.
If it was my squadron...  "Get moving or get out."

[Woodsy]

He has an attitude problem, and it's going to be disruptive to the other cadets.
If it was my squadron...  "Get moving or get out."

I would say the same to a SM with your attitude. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Cadets promote. If he wants to be a SM, he can wait.

[Woodsy]

Cadets promote. If he wants to be a SM, he can wait.

Disagree.  What we have here is a potentially very valuable future senior member.  What are the odds he will come back as a SM in a year?  17-18 year olds find other things to do fast.  Heck, even adults do.  The "get moving or get out" attitude in this situation is counterproductive to our long-term needs. 

[NC Hokie]

I'd ask that he make an effort to get the Wright Brothers Award during his short cadet career.  Here's why:

First of all, he'll have to promote to C/Amn to begin training in ES, so that's one mandatory promotion right there.

Second, as a senior member flight officer, he will outrank cadets that he served under and with.  They will NOT take him seriously if he does not take the cadet program seriously.  Been there, done that, and have nothing to show for it.

Finally, everything that he learns and does as a cadet will make him that much more valuable as a senior member.

[coudano]

He has an attitude problem, and it's going to be disruptive to the other cadets.
If it was my squadron...  "Get moving or get out."

I would say the same to a SM with your attitude.

I'll amend, based on the fact that it's a prospective cadet (I did not catch that the first time around)
I thought it was a cadet who was already in.

That said, yes, wait until the 18th bday and join as a S/M.

[Eclipse]

I have a perspective cadet who's stated that he's not really interested in the whole "learning modules and promoting thing."

He should look elsewhere to spend his volunteer time.  This will save everyone a lot of trouble.

This attitude is poison to Senior Members as well.  Best to send him on his way.

[lordmonar]

Bottom line.

People under the age of 18 can only Join CAP as CADETS....that is to participate in the Cadet Program.

If Cadet X only does the minimum to avoid a 2b.....well there you go.
If Cadet X has no problem with being the youngest C/SrA follows the cadets promoted over him....including the 12 year old C/SSgt....then again...there you go.

Bottom line.   It is the cadet's money (or his parents anyway) if he wants to just throw it away....I got not problem taking it.  So long as he is not a hindrance to the rest of my program.

[UH60guy]

He's fine with learning the drill, proper uniform wear, courtesies,
...
He said he's wants to be there just to volunteer his time and service to the Air Force and CAP
...

Sounds to me like he's just interested in wearing the uniform, not actually realizing what CAP is and what the uniform means. Might I suggest a local halloween shop or a military surplus store? He can wear his own uniform all day and not bother anyone.

I have to have a similar discussion with quite a few people before they enlist- They're always enamored with the USMC uniform (they do have style) but no idea of what they would DO in the Corps. Same thing here. He wants to be in BDUs/Blues, but has no idea about the organization behind the uniform.

That's great if he wants to volunteer his service. He just has to keep in mind that we want a specific TYPE of service, not just a well dressed lump in a uniform.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

If I read the OP correctly this prospective cadet has recently turned 17. If he joins as a cadet he could remain one until 21. That's almost 4 years.
That makes the Mitchell possible to likely, the Earhart possible, and if he's high speed the Spaatz on the outer edge.

Unless his SAR interest in in aircrew he can do that as a cadet. I'd encourage the cadet program to at least Mitchell. Then if he wants to go senior at least he'll have a good dose of CAP leadership experience. He'll also have established a pattern of setting and achieving goals which might carry over to senior PD participation.

IMHO, a Flight Officer who has been there and done that as a cadet is going to have a better chance of success.

If it was my call. I'd say honestly work the cadet program for the year and then we'll discuss options at 18.

[RiverAux]

Is anyone surprised that a 17-year old prospective cadet would primarily be interested in ES and other operational activities?  After all, this is the age when many are deciding to join the military and I daresay that a percentage of them aren't doing it for the leadership training that would be available. 

Senior members aren't joining CAP to participate in the senior member training program so the fact that a prospective cadet of that age might be drawn in by the same things that draws many senior members only makes sense. 

Could a 17-year old pick up some good knowledge working the rest of the cadet program?  Probably.  Is it worth it for the, "why should I salute a 14-year old?" issues that often come with older new cadets?  Maybe not. 

It is interesting that the Coast Guard Aux lets 17-year olds fully participate in their programs while you've got to be 21 to get all senior member "privileges" in CAP. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Besides CAP DL, what else is there that 18-20 year old can't do?

[lordmonar]

Besides CAP DL, what else is there that 18-20 year old can't do?

Cadets cannot be pilots if there are any other cadets on board.

Cadets cannot be left alone and unsupervised.....at least that is the way some anti-cadet senior only types read the regulation.

Cadets can't drive golf carts if there are any other cadets on board.

[Eclipse]

Besides CAP DL, what else is there that 18-20 year old can't do?

Wear officer grade, otherwise, nothing I know of.

[Eclipse]

Besides CAP DL, what else is there that 18-20 year old can't do?

Cadets cannot be pilots if there are any other cadets on board.

Cadets cannot be left alone and unsupervised.....at least that is the way some anti-cadet senior only types read the regulation.

Cadets can't drive golf carts if there are any other cadets on board.

You missed the word "senior" in his sentence, he wasn't referring to a cadet, he was referring to an under 21 senior.

at least that is the way some anti-cadet senior only types read the regulation.

No, that is the way anyone with common sense and knowledge of adolescents acts.

[JeffDG]

Besides CAP DL, what else is there that 18-20 year old can't do?

Wear officer grade, otherwise, nothing I know of.

some of the Section Chief level ES quals have a 21 age