Getting a "Great Start"

[CAP428]

I'm still trying to get some time to go thru it better. From what I've seen so far about half of it covers the recruiting process. Which needs to be covered. As far as the initial training process, I think a mre military approach is ncessary up front. I like the BCT method, but you do have to follow it up in the local program. What I try to do its the same kind of BCT program spread over a quarter. I like the publication in general though & would favor some standardization on this front.

Are you referring to BCT as in Basic Cadet Training?

I am fine with a more military approach as well, but you think we have retention problems already.....

A "BCT" method really would only work well on the assumption that all cadets join to be in a military type program.

Obviously many do, but there are also many others that join for a)leadership, b)interest in aerospace, c)a place to meet friends, d)search and rescue stuff, etc etc.

Sure, everyone should expect a military approach to things, but do you really think a brand new cadet who joined to fly airplanes will want to return to CAP each week knowing that all he's gonna get to do is do BCT stuff?

I don't think so.

A BCT approach of strict discipline and "no fun stuff" until you've been in long enough is just begging for people to drop out right after joining.

[CAP428]

If we are doing this great start thing, why are we requiring the encampment?   The encampment is the part of CAP that I don't understand.  Cadets go to it 6 months to a year after joining (depends when they join).  They already know most if not all the stuff there.  Been on O flights etc.   

Why can't CAP let a national encampment count as an encampment for a cadet to promote to cadet lt.

Well, I went to my encampment only a month after joining, after studying quickly for my Curry and diving into manuals, regs, etc.

I was a brand new cadet but I soon found that my studying had paid off.  I was more knowledgeable in a lot of areas of CAP than some of the other basics were, including some even as high as C/CMSgt!

The purpose of encampment is <or at least should be> to teach cadets the correct way of doing things.  You said most cadets already know the stuff when they get around to going to encampment.

I, on the other hand, have found that most (or at least many, many, many) cadets think they know their stuff when they go to encampment, but are in fact being taught wrong.

Encampment should be the place that brings that to the attention of the cadet so he (or she) can learn the correct method.

The only problem is...unfortunately, the encampment staff is also often permeated with folks who are well-intentioned and think they know the correct info to pass along, but in fact are also mistaken.  That is why encampment staff selection should be one of the most important parts of an encampment.

Get good leaders....you'll get good followers.

[DNall]

you know what would help with that is to coordinate the dates. We do two a year, and they ae usually 80 cadets, but the one this weekend is a mess cause it was late getting info out & not pushed to Sqs, plus right on top of the deadline for CTEP & you guys the week before... that's a mess. If we could cycle our dates so we do two in our Gp & two in your Gp in alternating quarters, then we can play off each other. You can run CBT in the previous quarter & send them to which ever ALs is up to start the next, then on into the specialization opportunities I mentioned above as they settle into a more standard progression, then CTEP pops up for NCOA & they should be ready for the next of those schools roughly once a year. Just a little organization & I think it'd all run pretty nice.

The purpose of encampment is the same as our CTEP. Sqs have pros & cons (meaning they most all suck in some area or another), and AF requires a certain standardized training level for cadets to get the mitchell award, and with it an extra stipe going in the AF. A lot of encampments do the minimum & then try to lay a bunch of fun stuff on top to keep kids interested. What they should be doing is updating the material & providing professional development training. That's why we have CTEP here, when really it should be part of encampment.

[NIN]

*bump*

At our open house on 9 March we handed out about 26 cadet packets and about 10-11 senior packets.

Last week, while I was in Vegas, we had 16 prospective cadets return and get their "Week Zero" briefing (what to expect in basic training, what to wear, answer questions about the upcoming inprocessing, etc)

This week (last night) was inprocessing.

16 new cadets and 4 new seniors (3 prospective officers and 1 cadet sponsor member)

All 16 cadets were inprocessed, visited the membership board, issued major BDU pieces and were sized for their blues. Of the 16, 11 cadet forms went into the mail this morning to NHQ.  The remaining 5 have various issues that need resolution: SSNs, health form, checks, mom's signature, etc.  The seniors still need membership boards, but their fingerprints are all done.  Likely by the end of next week's meeting we will have the remaining 9 (4 adults and 5 cadets) membership enroute to NHQ.

Pretty successful overall.

[SAR-EMT1]

Sounds like a great plan however my unit currently has only 3 active seniors and 2 active cadets. - more on the books but never see em-

How do WE get an infusion like that? tried airshows tried recruiting campaigns - papers, tv /radio ads etc... nothing works, the local JROTC have the cadets locked away, and we cant seem to get adult applicants that ARENT scared off by the fingerprint check.

[ZigZag911]

If we are doing this great start thing, why are we requiring the encampment?   The encampment is the part of CAP that I don't understand. 

Encampment is required by USAF; they give Mitchell cadets enlisting in AF advanced grade, as you know....so they want all cadets earning the Mitchell to experience a residential program, preferably at a military facility, with emphasis on AF doctrine, operations, military courtest, uniform, and so forth.

Years ago USAF also let Mitchell cadet enlistees bypass most of basic training, which was another rationale behind encampment, but this is no longer the case.

[IronRangerMN]

I will no longer be posting.

[RiverAux]

Our code is MN 010 so it means we are the 10th Sq to form in the state, there is a Sq in our state that is the MN 131. Many small and large Sq's in our state have obviously failed out of existance.

Uhh, I'm not sure that always holds true.  I'm not sure CAP has great records on when all of its units formed and at some point when they assigned squadron numbers I think they just threw them into a hat because I know of units that were around before others but which have higher squadron numbers.  Never seen a good explanation of this process. 

[shorning]

I don't know how they did it but they did it great. A police officer that used to be a swamp rat in MN, another swamp rat and army ranger, and the son of the police officer reopened the cadet part of our squadron 4 years ago. They closed down for 3 years because too much BS was happening from the top at wing. So our cadet part just shut down. And with it so were the activeness of the Swamp Rats.

You must be new(ish) to MNWG.  I remember that era, and it's not as you describe.    No, I will not share what I know here.

Our code is MN 010 so it means we are the 10th Sq to form in the state, there is a Sq in our state that is the MN 131. Many small and large Sq's in our state have obviously failed out of existance.

Well, not "obviously".  From what I remember, you are partially correct in your assessment, but there have not been 131 squadrons in MNWG.


How long have you been in CAP?  Because it's not a "code".  It's your charter number.  You sound like you've been around long enough that you should know that.  I'm just confused by the inconsistency.

[NIN]

Sounds like a great plan however my unit currently has only 3 active seniors and 2 active cadets. - more on the books but never see em-

How do WE get an infusion like that? tried airshows tried recruiting campaigns - papers, tv /radio ads etc... nothing works, the local JROTC have the cadets locked away, and we cant seem to get adult applicants that ARENT scared off by the fingerprint check.

You certainly have other issues, but read me lima-charlie on this:  If CAP becomes "easy-come" to people (ie. "ain't nothing to become a member") then it also goes the other way and becomes "easy-go" (its easy to just stop going and not participate) and you're back where you started from.

You want people who are willing to commit.  Pipelining forces people to wait to become members.  Those who wait tend to become better, longer term members. Those who want it now and don't want to wait tend not to be inclined to stick around when the going gets tough or the steps become more than they want to deal with.

It is generally considered to be anathema for us to "turn away" members.  Read me again: we are not "turning away" members, but rather, channeling them into clearly defined joining and training opportunities.  Look at the Real Military™: You can't walk into the recruiters office and walk out with a bus ticket to Lackland and a lopsided grin on your face.  You have to jump thru some hoops, qualify, and wait to ship out. Might be a week, might be 4 months.  Obviously, the armed forces have things like economy of scale and "needs of the service" on their side, but there is no reason why we cannot do similar things.

[DNall]

^that's a good philosophy right there. Ity's worked real well for me in the past at a previous Sq. Trying to put into effect now at this unit. We certainly got "needs of the service" just there are sooo many needs that we can give people a lot of options for the most part.

[LTC_Gadget]

A police officer that used to be a swamp rat in MN, another swamp rat and army ranger
[..] They closed down for 3 years because too much BS was happening from the top at wing.
[..]activeness
..
of the Swamp Rats.
[..]Have some sweet SM's that are squared away
[..]And we get like

-First suggestion. Dial back the intensity just a couple of clicks.  It's hard to concentrate on what you have to say when it's driven by excessive braggadocio.. As a cadet, there is no practical way that you have any behind-closed-doors knowledge of the workings at wing headquarters, unless you have family on wing staff. Oh, to be fifteen again and "know everything..."

-"activeness??" While yes, one can find it in a dictionary, recall that the dictionary merely defines a word, but does not speak to its propriety, nor the impression that it implies of the user.  There are many profane words in the dictionary as well, but that doesn't mean that they're acceptable to use.. Your English teacher is having a stroke.

-"swamp rats" - there are many references to swamp rats, none of them having anything to do with Civil Air Patrol.  You're co-opting a military term to make your activities seem greater than they are, or associate yourself with another real-world activity to make it seem as if your activities hold greater import than, in fact, they do. If you 'wannabe' in the Army, then you should 'wannabe' in Army JROTC and not Civil Air Patrol.

- "sweet SM" - that term is presumptuous, improperly informal, and disrespectful on your part, unless it's your grandmother of whom you write, of course.  Senior members may be respected, their conduct exemplary, their intentions admirable, their dedication intense, but from a cadet perspective a senior member is never "sweet."  You obviously need remedial instruction in customs and courtesies.

- the constant interjection of the word "like," done out of context is an indication of immaturity, and an informal verbal (and now written) 'tick.'  For the rest of my diatribe on this, consult:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1760.msg27887#msg27887

and I won't reprise it here.  Again, your English teacher is in cardiac arrest...

Think about what you say, how you say it, and how it 'paints' you in the eyes of others..

Regards,

[AlphaSigOU]

Years ago USAF also let Mitchell cadet enlistees bypass most of basic training, which was another rationale behind encampment, but this is no longer the case.

Yep... I am a veteran of the now-defunct Proficiency Advancement (PA) program. Try cramming what was (then) six weeks of basic training into about 2-1/2 weeks, not counting training days 0-7.

[SAR-EMT1]

Anyone ever have any experience with the AF giving CAP members who are collegiate ROTC cadets any bonus points due to completing something like SOS or ACSC?  - The old program of giving Mitchell cadets advancement is no more. (at my det anyway)

[DNall]

Anyone ever have any experience with the AF giving CAP members who are collegiate ROTC cadets any bonus points due to completing something like SOS or ACSC?  - The old program of giving Mitchell cadets advancement is no more. (at my det anyway)

You can request the AU transcript be sent to the university & get some credit out of it. Michell/Earhart/Spaatz each grant credit (in the AF not the university) for one of the first three semesters of AFROTC.

[SAR-EMT1]

Anyone ever have any experience with the AF giving CAP members who are collegiate ROTC cadets any bonus points due to completing something like SOS or ACSC?  - The old program of giving Mitchell cadets advancement is no more. (at my det anyway)

You can request the AU transcript be sent to the university & get some credit out of it. Michell/Earhart/Spaatz each grant credit (in the AF not the university) for one of the first three semesters of AFROTC.

Thats the program I am talking about. at SIUC I was in a flight with 7 others who had been CAP cadets. We received absolutely nothing from AFROTC for our CAP achievements.

[DNall]

Okay, well anything less than mitchell will get you nothing in AFROTC (just like enlisting). However, (just like enlisting) it is right there in the in-process documents and very clearly does give you credit.

Now, as you know, the first two years of ROTC are completely meaningless. If you do all four semesters then you go to 4wk camp, if you do any less then that then you do 6wk camp. If you had a Spaatz & did only the one semester before camp, then you'd go to the 4wk version (apply accordingly with Earhart/mitchell). Otherwise it doesn't matter.

What generally happens is cedets take the firs ttwo years anyway rather than sit out waiting till they have to, cause ultimately the majority of your score is based on a commander's rating and that don't happen without earning it. The only time I can think it would be meaningful is a few cadet officers we have around here that are doing dual credit at JrCol & will have an associates at 18.

[SAR-EMT1]

Okay, well anything less than mitchell will get you nothing in AFROTC (just like enlisting). However, (just like enlisting) it is right there in the in-process documents and very clearly does give you credit.

Now, as you know, the first two years of ROTC are completely meaningless. If you do all four semesters then you go to 4wk camp, if you do any less then that then you do 6wk camp. If you had a Spaatz & did only the one semester before camp, then you'd go to the 4wk version (apply accordingly with Earhart/mitchell). Otherwise it doesn't matter.

What generally happens is cedets take the firs ttwo years anyway rather than sit out waiting till they have to, cause ultimately the majority of your score is based on a commander's rating and that don't happen without earning it. The only time I can think it would be meaningful is a few cadet officers we have around here that are doing dual credit at JrCol & will have an associates at 18.

Five Mitchells and two Earharts, we got zip.

[DNall]

Did any of those people have to attend 6wk camp cause they were a semester or two short? Cause again that's the only way you'd see it, and if that was the case then either the cadet, cadre, or both didn't know that existed (or read it right there in the paperwork where it says you get credit). Really it's a pretty meaningless thing. Which camp you have to go to isn't going to change your chance of selection, and like I said most people choose to be in ROTC anyway rather than skipping it just cause they can, and that's advisable considering the commander rating.

You're done now though right, and finished your degree but got a medical hold preventing your commission? Obviously none of that helps you anymore. You can still send SOS/ACSC/AWC credit over for graduate credit, which who knows how that comes out depending on what your university offers. There's other places though that'll treat you pretty good on that stuff.

[SAR-EMT1]

Glad to know.. and for the most part you are correct on my situation except: the medical hold came at the end of my jr year, so I actually have one more left to go before I get the degree. It is a stupid detail though.

Back to topic, has anything like this great start program been created for seniors? IOWA?! lol