Contraband at Cadet Activities

[coudano]

Sorry dp'd from another forum but I thought it is relevant over here too...
Sort of spun off from the other thread... but more generally speaking:

Why do we list contraband items for CAP events?
How do you enforce contraband rules?
What do you do with contraband items when they are found?
What do you do with the person who had the contraband?
What sorts of things are on contraband lists for CAP cadet activities?
What types of CAP events do we need to enforce contraband rules at (and which ones don't)?
Who has the authority to determine what is contraband and enforce it? Where do they get that authority?
Any other pertinent questions or comments on this topic?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Most of what is considered as contraband is listed in our regulations, other than that they come from the host wing and activity commander. Listing the items makes it easier to say that everyone attending knows what should left at home, it also makes it easier as less time is needed to check for the contraband. When contraband is found it is confiscated until the end of the activity, depending on what the contraband is, say a pocket knife... hold it until the activity is done. Now for something like drugs, they would be confiscated the cadet moved to a safe area away from the rest of the cadets and the parents of the cadet would be called, also any other actions that need to be performed IAW regulations. Contraband rules should be enforced at all events, don't pick and choose, it is a matter of safety.

[addo1]

I will do my best to share my thoughts on this issue.

1) Contraband, or forbidden items, are forbidden for a reason. We have a list of items to "not bring" because many people will bring whatever item it may be if we do not tell them not to.
2) Enforcement is obviously situational, but if agreements are signed for the activity, etc, then a violation of contraband can be considered a breach of integrity.
3) If contraband has been kept and found, I have seen everything from a long talking to with the cadet to an immediate dismissal.
4) Listing "sorts" of things for CAP activities is broad because it will depend on the activity. For example, I would have knives and all weapons on a list of contraband for a leadership/encampment type school, but certain knives would be acceptable in one of my field training schools.
5) There are certain items which are mandated contraband (drugs, alcohol, tobacco, weapons, etc), but everything above regulation-forbidden and illicit items are at the discretion of the activity commander. If the commander wants to make an item contraband, then that would be his or her decision. As to where the authority comes from, well, the term commander has its perks.

So, to sum up the above... Contraband is a general term until the activity is defined so specifics can be made. Once something is decided as contraband, the staff should enforce it.

[Eclipse]

Why do we list contraband items for CAP events?
To insure items which are unsafe, illegal, inappropriate, or disruptive are not brought into the training environment.

How do you enforce contraband rules?
Prior notice, entrance inspections, daily inspections.

What do you do with contraband items when they are found?
Items found upon arrival which are not either illegal or a violation of CAP regs are inventoried and stored in a secured
location.  Cadets acknowledge their receipt upon their return.
Note: This isn't just "bad" stuff - cell phones, money, car keys, and even non-CAP reading material are generally considered
contraband and stored on arrival.

What do you do with the person who had the contraband?
In most cases, nothing, if they are caught on arrival or they are standard items that are just inappropriate during the activity.

Contraband that shows up during the activity may just have been missed, or might have been hidden - the former is no big deal,
the latter may be anything from a conversation with the commander to a ride home depending on the severity and the attitude.

Anything illegal such as a firearm, illegal drugs, etc., will be an immediate bad day for everyone involved.  We have a no-tolerance
policy that invokes the police immediately and lets them deal with the parents.  Any cadet who would show up to an encampment
with a gun or drugs needs an immediate high-velocity course correction.

What sorts of things are on contraband lists for CAP cadet activities?
- Reading material (other than CAP Manuals, etc) 
- Radio, CD / MP3 player, video games, etc.
- Cameras.
- Cell Phones (during the event) 
- Candy, gum, or food of any nature. 
- Lighters or other ignition sources
(the below is a go-home ticket)
-   Adult or pornographic materials   
-   Alcoholic beverages of any sort, tobacco products of
any nature, illegal drugs or substances, knives or
weapons of any nature, and any other items that would
detract from each day's planned activities.

What types of CAP events do we need to enforce contraband rules at (and which ones don't)?
I'd say anything with an overnight component for sure, especially if the cadets are afforded any unsupervised free time.
Encampments, NCSA's, NCC, and similar should be a given, but I would say a wing conference could have more risk
for "badness" because of poor supervision and the cadets are still in the "real" world.

Who has the authority to determine what is contraband and enforce it? Where do they get that authority?
The activity commander. In the case of an encampment the authority comes directly form the wing CC, for other
activities the authority is part and parcel of the chain of command.

[ol'fido]

Baggage checks should be part of any inprocessing procedure. Also, a few things that may be contraband for basic cadets at encampments may be allowed for cadet staff. Speaking from many years of checking bags at encampments, I have found that most cadets who show up at with contraband do so not trying to sneak it in but they have received inaccurate or poor guidance from persons at their home unit. A prime example of this is cigarette lighters or matches brought to burn wayward threads off uniforms or a pair of 12" tailors shears as part of a sewing kit. The cadets are not trying to "get over", they just don't have a clear understanding of what's contraband. These things I can deal with.

Sometimes cadets will show up with items that aren't really listed as contraband but leave you scratching your head. Things like tennis rackets, golf clubs, ironing boards, etc. Sometimes cadets hear the word "encampment" and the only part of that word that registers is "camp". And so they show up with sleeping bags, tents, and other survival gear. One cadet showed up with a flare gun and flares. We could probably start a whole thread on some of the goofy stuff brought to encampment.

Then lastly, you have those cadets who do bring in cantraband knowingly. One year at Volk Field , two cadets were sharing a shampoo bottle full of vodka. They were rolling it back and forth to each other across the aisle of their open bay barracks late one night. Apparently, they failed to notice the TAC  doing a nightly walk through and the bottle hit him in the foot. The cadets got a free trip to the SkyCop building and a trip home after that.

[Ron1319]

I remember that Ohio Wing used to feel it had the right to take car keys from adult cadets.  I recall not agreeing with that and insisting that I had a right to drive away if I decided I was leaving.  Holding a 20 year old against their will seems like an illegal concept to me.

[Eclipse]

I remember that Ohio Wing used to feel it had the right to take car keys from adult cadets.  I recall not agreeing with that and insisting that I had a right to drive away if I decided I was leaving.  Holding a 20 year old against their will seems like an illegal concept to me.

There is no such thing, in a CAP context, as an "adult cadet", pick one.  Adult or cadet.

And as long as you are a cadet, you do not have the same rights of self-supervision in a CAP context as an adult.
If you want the opportunities without the responsibility, that is the price.

No one is holding you against your will (or at least shouldn't be) - anyone who wants to leave an encampment should be free to do so at any time, under-18 cadets included.  But don't expect credit or to be invited back if you can't play by reasonable rules.

[arajca]

I remember that Ohio Wing used to feel it had the right to take car keys from adult cadets.  I recall not agreeing with that and insisting that I had a right to drive away if I decided I was leaving.  Holding a 20 year old against their will seems like an illegal concept to me.

1. The operative word here is CADET.

2. They do have that right. Cadets, regardless of their age, can be required to turn in the keys to their vehicles they drove to CAP activities.

3. If you decide you were leaving, all you had to do is go to whoever is holding the keys, sign out of the activity and leave. No one would be holding you there. Of course, doing so without a good reason would probably result in not being allowed to come back.

4. It comes down to accountability. Considering this discussion is about contraband, how easy would it be for an 18+ yo cadet to simply keep the contraband in their car and get it whenever they felt like by keeping the keys. Also, what would happen if you decided at 0300 you wanted to leave. Without holding the keys, the staff (who is still responsible for you at the activity) would not know you left until you failed to show up for morning pt/formation/inspection/whatever.

[FARRIER]

I remember that Ohio Wing used to feel it had the right to take car keys from adult cadets.  I recall not agreeing with that and insisting that I had a right to drive away if I decided I was leaving.  Holding a 20 year old against their will seems like an illegal concept to me.

No disrespect intended, but even as a former cadet, I've always thought it odd for someone to stay a cadet until they turned 21. The age of 18 is supposed to be (or used to be) that transitional age into adulthood. We have the Flight Officer grades for this age group.

[Ron1319]

Perhaps we need Ned to chime in here.  Based on my loose understanding of the world, if an 18 year old cadet wants to leave an activity at 3am and go home, or go get in trouble with the law, I'm in no way legally responsible, nor is CAP.  We can extend that to smoking in his car if he wants.  Bad, but not my legal problem in any way I can imagine.  If they're 16 on the other hand, then I'd think we'd be open to legal action.  Therefore, and I'm open to being corrected, I place them in different categories.

Further, when I have 18, 19 and 20 year old phase IV cadets under my command, they'll have the respect and autonomy they deserve unless they prove they cannot be trusted.  Unless someone can tell me it's not ok for some reason.  In short, they should be able to drop me a text message, say that they had an emergency at work, and go.  At 20 as a c/Col in North Carolina, I was working full time at IBM as a very well paid intern.  My commanders trusted me entirely and would never have questioned my decision to leave.

On the topic of staying a cadet after 18, you, my friend have an entirely different view of the cadet program than I do.  A 17 year old typically can't think about strategic planning (cadet growth, recruiting, meeting schedules that are involving and smart) the same way that a 20 year old can.  I'll take a 20 year old c/Col as cadet commander of a 60 cadet squadron any day over a 17 year old c/CMSgt (which appears to be the norm).  My expectations for the squadron and the cadet staff would be much, much greater and my own involvement would be quiet advisory rather than having to step in and directly influence.

Your senior cadets will always respond better to the c/Col than the 19 year old FO and the growth of the c/Col and opportunities will be much better in my experience.  Not in a world where they are treated like 12 year olds, however. 

As only one example, the 19 year old FO will never be in a position where they regularly report to the national commander, but the national CAC chair does.  The other simple analysis is that the FO is at the bottom of the food chain.  It's not in my personality to make a decision to go from the absolute top of the food change (ranking cadet in the wing where the wing commander calls you asking for advice) compared to a FO grade that I've never really even seen used, much less would even really have a good place for.

I don't think this goes very far towards determining what is considered contraband and I'd like to see the list.  I remember lots of cadets who carried a zippo.  Is that really not allowed now?  You can put me in the misinformed category.  I believe it's our safety officer's opinion that you teach people to use safe but risky things safely, not keep them away from them.

Better yet, how do you want to be respected if you consistently show a lack of trust?

So we're clear, I'm not talking about allowing things that are illegal.  Just not creating an environment where an 18 year old cadet feels they're being treated like a 12 year old and therefore they would rather go drink with their college buddies than mentor the next generation of cadets.

[arajca]

To decide what's contraband, you need to know what the activity is. Most folks here are touching on general items or encampment. A leatherman may be contraband at an encampment, but not at a GSAR school.

Regarding vehicle keys:

e. Vehicles. Cadets who drive privately-owned vehicles (POVs) to a NCSA will not operate the POV during the activity and will turn in all car keys to the designated senior member upon arrival.

and

(2) Cadets who drive POVs to encampments will not operate the POV while at the encampment. Upon arrival, they will turn-in all car keys to the designated senior member, who will return the keys when cadets are dismissed.

You may not have a legal responsibility for 18+yo cadets, but you have a CAP regulatory responsibility.

Here's a good one for you:
13 yo cadet from COWG shows up at an encampment in another wing with a bag of pot. He has a prescription for it, but the encampment is in a non-medical pot state. Contraband or prescription medication?

[EMT-83]

Speaking as a 50 year-old dad with a teenage son, how do I put this in plain language?  Kids do stupid stuff. Someone needs to be responsible to keep the stupid behavior in check.

As discussed in other threads, it's darn near impossible to create and enforce age-related rules for cadets that everyone thinks are fair. Some teens are incredibly mature, others incredibly scary.

For the record, at age 20 I was married and working for a defense contractor. A know-it-all kid working in final inspection on radar components used on bombers and cruise missiles. Now that's scary!

[Ron1319]

Pot's still federally illegal and I'd consider it contraband at any event, prescription or not. 

I'm hoping to get a 1st person story of Ohio Wing abusing taking keys away but I'll post the story if my sister doesn't accept my bribe to post it herself.  The regs are for encampments and national special activities.  Ok.

I have a story about a fellow cadet who fell asleep at the wheel driving home after encampment was over and nearly killed himself.  I doubt there are enough rules to make the cadet get enough sleep before driving.  At some point we just have to conclude that he was, in fact, an idiot.  And I say that because I knew him for years and he was.

[Ron1319]

Let's not lose track of the fact the my point is that a lot of seniors treat cadets like 12 year olds.  If we do that, they will go do something else instead, and they're the single best recipient of tasks we want to delegate.  My goal in CAP (as in my business) is to personally do as little as possible.  You do that by empowering the enthusiastic.

[Ned]

The regs are for encampments and national special activities.  Ok.

True enough, the regs quoted above seem specific to encampment.

But they suggest that it is a good leadership practice to forbid cadets to drive during a CAP activity, and it also seems like a good idea to limit their access to the vehicle for some of the reasons mentioned here.

There are at least several reasons for this.  Although we all hope that cadets would never have an accident while operating a vehcile during a CAP activity, it seems sort of inevitable that such a thing will occur from time to time if cadets are permitted to drive.  When that accident occurs, it raises issues concerning supervision and CAP liability that can simply be avoided if cadets are forbidden to drive.  Obviously some of the same issues arise when seniors are involved in accidents, but the difference arises in the supervision requirements of our cadet members.

And there are obvious practical difficulties in supervising cadets when they are off driving somewhere.

As you suggested in your earlier post, CAP has no inherent authority to forcibly detain someone who has reached the local age of majority (usually - but not always -18).  Any adult who wants to leave an activity can simply sign out and go.  And can certainly do so even at 0300.  But that is an entirely separate issue as to whether or not cadets can be required to surrender their keys.

I have a story about a fellow cadet who fell asleep at the wheel driving home after encampment was over and nearly killed himself.  I doubt there are enough rules to make the cadet get enough sleep before driving.  At some point we just have to conclude that he was, in fact, an idiot.  And I say that because I knew him for years and he was.

Non-concur.  I think we have to take reasonable steps to ensure that drivers have had enough "crew rest" before departing an activity.  Commanders / activity directors should always structure activities to make sure enough down/sleep time is built into the schedule.  And if we know that a cadet driver has had insufficient sleep, we should make alternate arrangements and not simply wish them luck as they climb into the car.

In the Army, we called this making a sleep plan.  It's just basic good leadership.

Pot's still federally illegal and I'd consider it contraband at any event, prescription or not.

A tough call for the local commander.  Our job is to follow the law.  In rare situations, as here, laws can conflict.  Ultimately the commander will have to make the decision.

[Ron1319]

Merry Christmas to all, by the way, and good evening, Ned.  My point wasn't intended to mean that we shouldn't schedule the down time, it was more that the cadet had time to sleep and chose not to.  The general idea being we can make all of the rules we want.  If we're petty about them and in a way disrespectful, they're going to just go around the rules.  In that case the rules are good, but someone can just not follow them anyway.  Seriously, he almost killed himself.  Rolled a convertible.

Meanwhile, how about this specific example?  18 year old cadet, who by the way drives a Mercedes SUV, wants to go get a sandwich during a 9am-6pm training academy day for lunch.  I say, "You're an adult you can go get a sandwich if everything here is taken care of and we know where you're going."  I'm 99% sure that he can sign in and out or not but I don't think we're accepting liability for an ADULT when they're signed in, are we?  It'd be like saying that I was liable for one of my employees while they went on lunch break because they were at work.  Not my understanding of how the world works.

I suppose the question, Ned, is can we require an adult cadet to turn over their keys?  Obviously they can just go home and not come to the activity, but that's again not really the goal.

[a2capt]

Heh, wow. A 13 year old with a pot card. Now he must envy of certain other kids I bet. Just wonderful. DDR, but I have a pot card.

[caphornbuckle]

It holds true to the RM life.  Since the cadet program is molded around RM life, it would be simple to see that trainees (cadets in this instance) would be restricted in their movements during the training period (the entire week).

I know I was put on lockdown during periods of training numerous times during my service.

If one wants to be a cadet, one will be treated like a cadet.  Otherwise, become a Senior Member.

[Ned]

Seriously, he almost killed himself.  Rolled a convertible.

Sadly, he would not be the only example.  We have had cadets killed driving home from activities when lack of sleep was suspected to be the cause.  That's why scheduled down time for drivers is so important.

Meanwhile, how about this specific example?  18 year old cadet, who by the way drives a Mercedes SUV, wants to go get a sandwich during a 9am-6pm training academy day for lunch.  I say, "You're an adult you can go get a sandwich if everything here is taken care of and we know where you're going."  I'm 99% sure that he can sign in and out or not but I don't think we're accepting liability for an ADULT when they're signed in, are we?

Except for encampments (where we have a specific regulation on point), whether adult cadets can "check in/out" of an activity is up to the activity commander.  If you're the boss, I suspect the cadets will be able to do so.  I'm guessing if Eclipse was the activity commander, the cadets will be staying put.  My job as a staff guy is to support commanders' in the lawful exercise of  their discretion.

I suppose the question, Ned, is can we require an adult cadet to turn over their keys?  Obviously they can just go home and not come to the activity, but that's again not really the goal.

The answer is clearly "yes."  We can and do require adults to wear uniforms, not smoke or drink in front of cadets, work certain hours and at certain locations, and yes, turn in their keys if they want to play in our sandbox.  If they don't want to play, they can just go home.

And in the case of encampments, we publish the rule ahead of time so that no one will be surprised  when they show up.  That's probably a good rule for every activity.

[Slim]

Regarding cadets (or senior members for that matter) driving to/from activities:

b. Use of POVs for transportation to and from CAP meetings, encampments and other activities is solely at the risk of the individual CAP members and their passengers. CAP assumes no right of control, liability or responsibility for such transportation.

Why that's buried in the reg covering operation and maintenance of corporate vehicles is beyond me.  Maybe it should also be included in the 52-16?

That seems pretty cut-and dried to me.  If you want to drive to encampment, an NCSA, or even a squadron meeting, you're on your own.  CAP has stated that I don't have any responsibility, liability or control over what happens to you after you sign out of the activity and drive out the main gate.

OTOH, does that relief us of our duty as leaders to make sure that drivers are well rested prior to setting out for home at the end of an NCSA or encampment?  I think we'd all agree that the obvious answer is "Of course not."

The regs are also pretty cut and dried regarding cadets turning in car keys at the start of an NCSA or encampment.  If you're going to throw that much of a fit over turning in your car keys, I'd kinda have to wonder what your plans are or what you have stashed in the car.