hello,
I am a C/2LT and a sophomore in high school recently i was asked by my principle if i could do a color guard ceremony at my high school for the nation anthem at our lat soccer game. He requested that i personally be in it because i am actually a student there. I was just wondering if it would be allowed for me to participate in the color guard, even though i am already an officer.

The issue with officers in color guards is only a problem with competition teams.

Anyone can post the colors.

Frequently a competition winning team thats got cadets about to get their Mitchell Award, will go on and do postings at events both CAP and community after members become officers. You just can't compete. Mentor, coach, advise - sure. But compete, no.

Quote from: shlebz on May 08, 2011, 06:46:12 PM
hello,
I am a C/2LT and a sophomore in high school recently i was asked by my principle if i could do a color guard ceremony at my high school for the nation anthem at our lat soccer game. He requested that i personally be in it because i am actually a student there. I was just wondering if it would be allowed for me to participate in the color guard, even though i am already an officer.

This is the type of activity we need our Color Guards & Drill Teams to be doing more of :clap: :clap:.  Personally, I'd like to see some sort of point system for teams in competition that shows they have been active in their communities by performing posting of the colors, parades, retirements, etc.  (likely a performance log with backup documentation/letters from the organization they assisted, including a contact phone # & email (if available).), rather than teams that just meet to practice for the competition and do little else
RM

When I was a Cadet, I was the Color Guard Commander for some time.  When I became an officer, my SQ/CC told me I had to relinquish that position because I was no longer an NCO.  Now, that was quite some time ago, but I wonder if that was in the regs, or just some misinformation at the time.  Thanks for the info, I'll look into it!

Misinformation, any cadet can be on a color guard, regardless of rank. However for color guard competition the team can only be NCOs.

Quote from: CAPSAR86 on May 30, 2011, 10:50:18 AM
When I was a Cadet, I was the Color Guard Commander for some time.  When I became an officer, my SQ/CC told me I had to relinquish that position because I was no longer an NCO.  Now, that was quite some time ago, but I wonder if that was in the regs, or just some misinformation at the time.  Thanks for the info, I'll look into it!

AFMAN 36-2203 7.32.1.

 I just got my Mitchell recently and I'm still the colorguard commander. I'm just about to hand it off, but I'll have had it for about a month before giving up the colorguard commander position. It's really just a unit necessity.

Quote from: MIKE on May 30, 2011, 01:32:12 PM

Quote from: CAPSAR86 on May 30, 2011, 10:50:18 AM
When I was a Cadet, I was the Color Guard Commander for some time.  When I became an officer, my SQ/CC told me I had to relinquish that position because I was no longer an NCO.  Now, that was quite some time ago, but I wonder if that was in the regs, or just some misinformation at the time.  Thanks for the info, I'll look into it!

AFMAN 36-2203 7.32.1.

In regards to CAP, that is irrelevent.

Quote from: CAPSAR86 on May 30, 2011, 10:50:18 AM
When I was a Cadet, I was the Color Guard Commander for some time.  When I became an officer, my SQ/CC told me I had to relinquish that position because I was no longer an NCO.  Now, that was quite some time ago, but I wonder if that was in the regs, or just some misinformation at the time.  Thanks for the info, I'll look into it!

I'm pretty sure it was in the old CAPM 50-3 Leadership Manual.

Quote from: arajca on May 30, 2011, 11:08:36 PM

Quote from: MIKE on May 30, 2011, 01:32:12 PM

Quote from: CAPSAR86 on May 30, 2011, 10:50:18 AM
When I was a Cadet, I was the Color Guard Commander for some time.  When I became an officer, my SQ/CC told me I had to relinquish that position because I was no longer an NCO.  Now, that was quite some time ago, but I wonder if that was in the regs, or just some misinformation at the time.  Thanks for the info, I'll look into it!

AFMAN 36-2203 7.32.1.

In regards to CAP, that is irrelevent.

Same reg.....different name.

Uh
the very first two words of that reg cite are

"when practical"


in this case, it's not practical...  if the school won't let you do the color guard at all, if the cadet officer isn't on it, then it isn't practical to not have the cadet officer on it.

done.


here's another example for you to bake your noodle on;
there are certain officer pme courses where flag handling may be done.
EVERYONE IN THE SCHOOL is an officer.
the color guard is made up of officers.
oh noes.



Of course, the 'preferred' way is to use NCO's on the flags, and airmen as guards.
And I would even go so far as to say that you should go out of your way to do it that way.
But if it is not possible (or, you know, not practical) then let common sense take over and do the best you can.
it will probably be sufficient.

**as noted above, cadet color guard comp is a different animal, and it has hard and fast rules that don't get to bend

From my own experience, I partook as a C/NCO and had many opportunities as a C/Officer. The only times I'd do it as a C/Officer however was when not enough C/NCOs stepped up.

we are posting colors for graduation and some one who just passed the Mitchell is also doing i with us but he is no long allowed to go to competion with us

Quote from: coudano on May 31, 2011, 04:43:32 AM
Uh
the very first two words of that reg cite are

"when practical"

The words "when practical" imply having two NCO's as flag bearers and two airmen as guards. However, the mix of the color guard could be all NCO's or 3 airmen with one NCO being the flag bearer for the American flag. In other words, regardless of the mix, the perfect situation would be to have the most senior NCO's bearing the flag. This does mean that if you don't have the perfect mix of two NCO's and two airmen, an Officer can step in.

Color Guard is traditionally an NCO and Enlisted type of detail. The military DOES NOT use Officers for Honor Guard or Color Guard. Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary of the Air Force so respect their traditions or don't wear the uniform. This is not a "Competition" only rule.

Quote from: mrg on June 15, 2011, 11:48:41 AM
The military DOES NOT use Officers for Honor Guard or Color Guard. Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary of the Air Force so respect their traditions or don't wear the uniform. This is not a "Competition" only rule.

1) We're NOT the military.
2) In respect to cadet programs, C/2d Lt = More experience than a C/CMSgt.
3) This is not a respect issue, but one of practicality.
4) Please cite a CAPR/P/M that states C/Officers are NOT allowed to participate in a color guard (outside of the cadet competition).

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 15, 2011, 12:46:18 PM

Quote from: mrg on June 15, 2011, 11:48:41 AM
The military DOES NOT use Officers for Honor Guard or Color Guard. Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary of the Air Force so respect their traditions or don't wear the uniform. This is not a "Competition" only rule.

1) We're NOT the military.
2) In respect to cadet programs, C/2d Lt = More experience than a C/CMSgt.
3) This is not a respect issue, but one of practicality.
4) Please cite a CAPR/P/M that states C/Officers are NOT allowed to participate in a color guard (outside of the cadet competition).

CAPP 151 Respect on Display, Part 2 Military Customs & Courtesies "What follows is a brief tutorial in how to render Air Force-style
customs and courtesies properly and proudly. This guide focuses on the fundamentals. For more information, see the Air Force Drill &
Ceremonies Manual, available at the CAP website."

Again, I never said we were the military. I said we are an Auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force and per many pamphlets, regs, etc., we follow there customs and courtesies. Also, in regards to color guards and drill & ceremonies, CAP follows CAPP 52-8 for Honor Guards and AFM 36-2203 and you may also go to: http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/drill__ceremonies.cfm

Also, in CAPP 52-8, it says that "3.3.2. The Honor Guard senior members should be totally familiar with the AFMAN 36-2203, Drill and
Ceremonies; CAPR 900-2, Civil Air Patrol Seal, Emblem and Flag Etiquette; and AFI 34-242, Mortuary Affairs Program. It is not necessary for the senior member to be able to accomplish all the rifle maneuvers, but they should be familiar with the way they are done. A senior member cannot teach what he or she does not know. Air Force publications are available on line at www.af.mil."

The quote above is in reference to a senior member running an honor guard program for there unit which . Basically, its another reference where CAP explicitly states that we use/follow USAF drill & ceremonies. Again, we are an AUXILIARY OF THE USAF and if you don't want to respect there customs & courtesies (CAPP 151), don't wear the uniform.

Also, this is a tradition that goes back a long time. Please, be respectful.

Respectful of what?

Not allowing a Cadet Officer to post colors?

The USAF can dictate to its members what they will do and where they will be, and can request more personnel when a
necessary skill is needed but no one is available locally.

CAP does not have those options.

You play the best game you can with the team you have, not stand on some ceremony and allow the mission to fail.

Quote from: Eclipse on June 15, 2011, 02:50:00 PM
Respectful of what?

Not allowing a Cadet Officer to post colors?

The USAF can dictate to its members what they will do and where they will be, and can request more personnel when a
necessary skill is needed but no one is available locally.

CAP does not have those options.

You play the best game you can with the team you have, not stand on some ceremony and allow the mission to fail.

Respectful of USAF traditions, customs & courtesies. This is not a situation of lack of resources but one of preference on the part of the high school principal. If they have the cadet NCO's available use them and if you read the manuals/pamphlets, it outlines ways Officers can be part of these ceremonies. This is not a mission but a ceremony so ceremonial procedures apply. "Allow the mission to fail...", we are talking about posting the Color's not life or death. Again, if you have the resources use them and explain the school principal how it works.

What high school principle?

No one asking for color guard support is going to know or care about the fact that there are cadet officers in the mix.
I guarantee if they ask for help, they would be happy to have seniors members do it if they looked sharp.

The "mission" is getting the job done.   There are always preferences and "best" in terms of the situation, and when you can't meet "best",
as long as there is no regulation prohibiting the function, and it fills the need, you do what you have to in order to get things done.

In this case, having cadet officers post the colors is infinity better than telling the requester "no" because of some misguided adherence to
"tradition"