how do you schedule/coordinate O-flights with local USAF/Air Guard squadrons?

[jfkspotting]

How do some Cap squadrons schedule O-flights with local USAF/ANG squadrons on large equipment (C-17's/C-130's/KC-135, etc.)

I've read of some squadrons doing it...very curious.


FYI, this does belong in two form categories, as it pertains to both.

[stillamarine]

No. It does not belong in two boards. The request is supposed to go through the wing.

[abdsp51]

The AF and CAP wings must approve then the regional Airlift Coordinator has to approve it as well and submit the request to TRANSCOM for approval for certain number especially if there are going to be SMs on board. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

I think part of the question is how do you find an AF or ANG squadron to do O-flight using their equipment.

Do you just ask them "We would appreciate O-flights in your equipment." Or do you go to Group / Wing before even asking them about the O-flights?

[PHall]

I think part of the question is how do you find an AF or ANG squadron to do O-flight using their equipment.

Do you just ask them "We would appreciate O-flights in your equipment." Or do you go to Group / Wing before even asking them about the O-flights?

There is a major amount of work and coordination that must happen before CAP or anybody else gets an O-Flight.
There are restrictions on what you do while you have passengers aboard, like no pattern work. Which pretty much kills any training for the pilots.

[Eclipse]

The hard-fast reality is that absent a relationship, usually from the inside-out, it's going to be difficult
to get access.

These days most rides are on a cargo plane like a C-130/17 or a fueler KC-10/135, primarily because
there are still a lot of them, and they have large passenger areas that allow for a single flight to accommodate
a good sized-squadron or CAP group.

Helo-rides do happen on a regular basis, but they are hard to come by both because helos themselves
are fewer and far between, and most like Blackhawks, require multiple flights to accommodate even a squadron-level group.

In addition to activities at encampments, my wing has had several military o-rides over the last decade or so - I stretch
out to that time frame to emphasize how unusual these can be and the level of brute-force coordination they require.

In all cases they were coordinated or championed by USAF or ANG personnel who were either members or
family of members, and included & required both the approval of CAP-USAF, as well as their hand-holding of authorizations,
MSA, and various other administrivia.

If the flights originate at a civilian airport, then less is required access-wise, but if the flights are from a military base,
there may be a whole separate set of MSAs and coordination required to get CAP on the facility at all.

Assuming no inside relationship, the place to start would be to see if anyone in your wing is assigned as the liaison to CAP-USAF (each wing is supposed to have at least one, but not all do).  Start with him or her.  If not, contact your CAP-USAF LR-ADO and see if they have
contacts which can open doors.

If both of those are dead-ends, then you'll need to go direct to local bases and resources that have an appropriate aircraft,
bearing in mind that thanks to BRAC, "local" could very well be the other side of the state.  Be sensitive to any local CAP presence
for both their assistance, and to recognize their local AOR.  CAP-USAF stil needs to be aware or involved at whatever level your
respective LR-ADO wants to be, and it should go without saying that if you get a ride(s), they should be open to the whole wing, and
certainly any units in proximity to the resource you're getting access to.

[goblin]

The AF and CAP wings must approve then the regional Airlift Coordinator has to approve it as well and submit the request to TRANSCOM for approval for certain number especially if there are going to be SMs on board.

In the process of coordinating a -135 flight for my local CAP squadron... definitely not getting TRANSCOM or anyone else involved. AFI delegates the authority to the WG/CC for CAP and ROTC flights...just gotta get him/her on board.

Definitely helps to have someone on the inside though.

[abdsp51]

The AF and CAP wings must approve then the regional Airlift Coordinator has to approve it as well and submit the request to TRANSCOM for approval for certain number especially if there are going to be SMs on board.

In the process of coordinating a -135 flight for my local CAP squadron... definitely not getting TRANSCOM or anyone else involved. AFI delegates the authority to the WG/CC for CAP and ROTC flights...just gotta get him/her on board.

Definitely helps to have someone on the inside though.

TRANSCOM is a CAP requirement especially for SMs flying.  The AFI can delegate that to the Wg CC yes but there is an NRA # required to fly CAP members and that comes from TRANSCOM and is received by the CAP Liason.

[PHall]

The AF and CAP wings must approve then the regional Airlift Coordinator has to approve it as well and submit the request to TRANSCOM for approval for certain number especially if there are going to be SMs on board.

In the process of coordinating a -135 flight for my local CAP squadron... definitely not getting TRANSCOM or anyone else involved. AFI delegates the authority to the WG/CC for CAP and ROTC flights...just gotta get him/her on board.

Definitely helps to have someone on the inside though.

You may not be going through Transcom or anyone else, but the unit flying you sure will be.
ANG units have to get the ANG Ops Center to approve it and AFRC units will need the AFRC Ops Center's approval.
Having you on board changes this from a training flight to an Airlift flight. Different pot of money and a whole bunch more coordination to be done by the Current Ops folks.

[goblin]

The AF and CAP wings must approve then the regional Airlift Coordinator has to approve it as well and submit the request to TRANSCOM for approval for certain number especially if there are going to be SMs on board.

In the process of coordinating a -135 flight for my local CAP squadron... definitely not getting TRANSCOM or anyone else involved. AFI delegates the authority to the WG/CC for CAP and ROTC flights...just gotta get him/her on board.

Definitely helps to have someone on the inside though.

You may not be going through Transcom or anyone else, but the unit flying you sure will be.
ANG units have to get the ANG Ops Center to approve it and AFRC units will need the AFRC Ops Center's approval.
Having you on board changes this from a training flight to an Airlift flight. Different pot of money and a whole bunch more coordination to be done by the Current Ops folks.

Not true at all. At least on the active duty side. I am in the unit that will be doing the flying (in fact, I'll be the pilot), and it is the same "pot of money" as you put it.  The only different coordination that the current ops folks are doing is adding "incentive ride" to the mission notes.

ETA: this is for local orientation/incentive rides, not space-a travel or landing at a different place than the mission originated.

[goblin]

The AF and CAP wings must approve then the regional Airlift Coordinator has to approve it as well and submit the request to TRANSCOM for approval for certain number especially if there are going to be SMs on board.

In the process of coordinating a -135 flight for my local CAP squadron... definitely not getting TRANSCOM or anyone else involved. AFI delegates the authority to the WG/CC for CAP and ROTC flights...just gotta get him/her on board.

Definitely helps to have someone on the inside though.

TRANSCOM is a CAP requirement especially for SMs flying.  The AFI can delegate that to the Wg CC yes but there is an NRA # required to fly CAP members and that comes from TRANSCOM and is received by the CAP Liason.

I'm with ya...I was answering more on the AF unit's workload, not the CAP units. My CAP SQ/CC is taking care of that part.

Apologies for the confusion.

[PHall]

The AF and CAP wings must approve then the regional Airlift Coordinator has to approve it as well and submit the request to TRANSCOM for approval for certain number especially if there are going to be SMs on board.

In the process of coordinating a -135 flight for my local CAP squadron... definitely not getting TRANSCOM or anyone else involved. AFI delegates the authority to the WG/CC for CAP and ROTC flights...just gotta get him/her on board.

Definitely helps to have someone on the inside though.

You may not be going through Transcom or anyone else, but the unit flying you sure will be.
ANG units have to get the ANG Ops Center to approve it and AFRC units will need the AFRC Ops Center's approval.
Having you on board changes this from a training flight to an Airlift flight. Different pot of money and a whole bunch more coordination to be done by the Current Ops folks.

Not true at all. At least on the active duty side. I am in the unit that will be doing the flying (in fact, I'll be the pilot), and it is the same "pot of money" as you put it.  The only different coordination that the current ops folks are doing is adding "incentive ride" to the mission notes.

ETA: this is for local orientation/incentive rides, not space-a travel or landing at a different place than the mission originated.

There is a world of difference between the Active Duty side and and Guard/Reserve side.