We are at some point going to have to undergo a huge marketing campaign to try and get young people interested in starting CAP or coming back.

Should we complicate things further before starting this recruiting?

Or should we spend money of a research team to figure out just what might be marketable to the young generation now?

Or should we as old geezers stick to what we've always done, and say "quality" over numbers, and just let CAP shrink away?

IDK ... just pondering whether this a good time to toughen up the Cadet program, or is it the perfect time to reinvent it?

^ NHQ has made it pretty clear that they believe the proper marketing play
is towards STEM and aviation vs. ES. This has increased significantly in the last 5 years or so.
One could imagine that NHQ will try to play somewhat on the Covid community service activities
taking place right now, and (hopefully) will cease the rhetoric about a pilot shortage, but
STEM and aviation are likely to be in the forefront going forward, as they should be, considering
that is really the CP's primary strong point right now.

Marketing ES as an actual capability and function has always been a "and you can also"
in regards to cadets which is as it should be.  Promising things that don't happen
has proven to be a great way to insure kids don't stick around.

Being as benevolent as possible, CAP's ES capability is..."evolving", and will not be stable enough
to be a primary marketing point until that..."evolution" stabilizes.  Much like the military in the 90's,
CAP is training members for missions that don't exist, with 20 year old doctrine and technology,
while at the same time pretending it is on the cutting edge of SAR and an equal member at the table.

It's not, for either, and potential cadets, especially, can smell that a mile away.

Firstly, I think I should offer a slight apology to both the OP and to ZigZag911.....I still maintain that there are serious Have / Have Not concerns in our organization, and I do align with Spam in that respect, but I jumped a bit quick, as I was reminded by Eclipse:

Quote from: Eclipse on February 06, 2021, 02:35:52 AM

Quote from: ZigZag911 on February 06, 2021, 12:51:18 AMHere are some more suggesions: CERT, shelter management, damage assessment.

I've long been an advocate for, including pressing the point when in Command roles, that
every member should be at least UDF-T.

That is an attainable legit goal, indoctrinates members to the ways of ES, and sets them
up to be able to earn Find Ribbons in what is still purported to be CAP's primary ES Mission.

Further, it costs zero, and doesn't really require much in the way of outside personnel or resources.

GES, + equipment that's already in a book bag, and a phone tree.  Those can be signed off remotely,
and accomplished in a couple of meetings as a group.

Unlike Eclipse, my only command roles have been deputy commander and a brief spell as CC but, during my time as deputy, we did commit to getting everyone trained in UDF.  It worked, and it did spark real and sustained interest in some cadets.  It is a good introduction, and it does get them working outside.  It remains as a unit goal to maintain (IIRC) at least 80% of the unit as UDF qualified.

Let's look at this as well what about the OS Units who by regulations primary purpose is the CP?  Including any type of ES req for promotions will stagnate cadets in those units.

Quote from: abdsp51 on March 19, 2021, 03:37:07 PMLet's look at this as well what about the OS Units who by regulations primary purpose is the CP?  Including any type of ES req for promotions will stagnate cadets in those units.

And school-based units.

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on March 19, 2021, 03:54:48 PM

Quote from: abdsp51 on March 19, 2021, 03:37:07 PMLet's look at this as well what about the OS Units who by regulations primary purpose is the CP?  Including any type of ES req for promotions will stagnate cadets in those units.

And school-based units.

And cadet squadrons which, likely, have a limited senior member contingent to pull in those with ES skills.

Quote from: Paul Creed III on March 19, 2021, 04:24:27 PMAnd cadet squadrons which, likely, have a limited senior member contingent to pull in those with ES skills.

Well, in that case, GES and UDF-T are wholly attainable as they do not require an in-face
presence of an SET.

Quote from: Eclipse on March 19, 2021, 04:43:21 PM

Quote from: Paul Creed III on March 19, 2021, 04:24:27 PMAnd cadet squadrons which, likely, have a limited senior member contingent to pull in those with ES skills.

Well, in that case, GES and UDF-T are wholly attainable as they do not require an in-face
presence of an SET.

And now ask what burden that places upon the individual cadet (as well as the unit staff in following up on the matter) in having to complete numerous courses to qualify for UDF.

Obtaining trainee status is effectively useless to consider someone experienced or education in any ES qualification curriculum. I don't understand why a number of themes are to assign someone to trainee status, despite no requirement for them to actually complete the qualification (only encourage completion). It sounds like more of a permissions matter and awareness of a unit commander that the individual is in that pipeline.

CAP's outreach in schools expands a recruit population which interfaces with the goal of expanding aerospace education and STEM/cyber outreach. And while the majority of units pull in members from the local community, school-based units primarily pull from the perspective of expanding extracurricular opportunities that marinade with middle school and high school programming; and far more schools have engaged in current Cadet Programs-related subject matter (particularly in aerospace) than those who engage in community emergency/rescue subject matter.

The majority of CAP units, globally, are cadet driven within an existing curriculum of leadership and aerospace, with paramilitary influence.

Who has the statistics on how many cadets in CAP are qualified in one or more Emergency Services specialty (not just GES)? Does anyone have this data to share?

100% of cadets grades C/A1C and higher have completed at least one aerospace test. Nearly a fifth of CAP cadets have completed a comprehensive aerospace test on the first book within the cadet aerospace curriculum. I don't have any statistics on cadets who have earned a STEM or Cyber Badge (or perhaps are eligible but haven't received either, or both); I'm sure that number is lower than it should be, though.

But we really should be doing a serious comparison on Aerospace vs. Emergency Services statistics within the Cadet Program if this is going to be a serious conversation (and it's not; this is all message board debate).

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on March 19, 2021, 05:47:34 PMAnd now ask what burden that places upon the individual cadet (as well as the unit staff in following up on the matter) in having to complete numerous courses to qualify for UDF.

Obtaining trainee status is effectively useless to consider someone experienced or education in any ES qualification curriculum.

I'm going to throw the flag on this - the level of "burden" is essentially zero, and the
necessary materials and curriculum are online.  There's basically zero cost and maybe one 5th-week meeting.

UDF-T offers not only the indoc on ES, but it also allows for a member to participate in the mission
which is still being marketed as CAP's main function.  It also allows for those members to earn find ribbons, and even
the SAR ribbon. 

GES is also part of QCUA now.

Honestly, I've never understood why UDF-T, at least, hasn't always been mandated for all members.
You want invested members?  The stop playing games and require everyone to do something in all three
arenas, if only as part of Level 1.

Quote from: Eclipse on March 19, 2021, 06:15:33 PM

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on March 19, 2021, 05:47:34 PMAnd now ask what burden that places upon the individual cadet (as well as the unit staff in following up on the matter) in having to complete numerous courses to qualify for UDF.

Obtaining trainee status is effectively useless to consider someone experienced or education in any ES qualification curriculum.

I'm going to throw the flag on this - the level of "burden" is essentially zero, and the
necessary materials and curriculum are online.  There's basically zero cost and maybe one 5th-week meeting.

UDF-T offers not only the indoc on ES, but it also allows for a member to participate in the mission
which is still being marketed as CAP's main function.  It also allows for those members to earn find ribbons, and even
the SAR ribbon. 

GES is also part of QCUA now.

Honestly, I've never understood why UDF-T, at least, hasn't always been mandated for all members.
You want invested members?  The stop playing games and require everyone to do something in all three
arenas, if only as part of Level 1.

ES doesn't interest everyone it's that simple.  Plus there are areas where ES is basically mummified and especially with overseas units ES isn't within the realm of reality and then the primary mission is CP.  When I rejoined back in 2012 I told my unit I wanted nothing to do with ES in any regards.  Now I helped our ES officer one weekend when he reached out but that was it.  Forcing ES as any form of advancement requirement will stagnate members.

Although the last time I started a thread on this issue no one was buying what I was selling, I feel obligated to say again that the federal statute that authorizes CAP DOES NOT include a "cadet program" as one of our stated purposes while emergency services is explicitly mentioned. 

QuoteTITLE 36 > Subtitle II > Part B Section 40302
 The purposes of the corporation are as follows:
(1) To provide an organization to—
(A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation and in maintaining air supremacy; and
(B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.
(2) To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.
(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.
(4) To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in meeting local and national emergencies.
(5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs and missions.

So, yes, yes, providing aerospace education and training to youths obviously fits under B2, but all the leadership and other aspects of the modern cadet programs are add-ons.

However, providing people to help in emergencies is one of our very specific primary purposes and as such, I think requiring all members to have some basic level of ES training falls in line with why the organization exists.

I understand that cadets have a lot of obligations and ES may seem outside the zone of what some are there to do, but they should suck it up like all the senior members that joined for ES but have to spend time on cadet protection and related issues even if they are rarely around cadets. 

Unfortunately, the simplification of CAP's purposes into only 3 missions has shortchanged several of our other purposes.

Quote from: RiverAux on March 23, 2021, 12:37:37 AM..... providing people to help in emergencies is one of our very specific primary purposes and as such, I think requiring all members to have some basic level of ES training falls in line with why the organization exists.

Something like 95% of CAP Saves now are thanks to the handful of folks on the cell phones forensics teams ... so .... times are a'changing.

Sure, there are still a couple wings that are active in SAR, but most all the others ... practice for a mission that never comes.

At some point, Congress may just need to revisit that Charter. Maybe sooner than later.

Quote from: etodd on March 23, 2021, 02:36:26 AMAt some point, Congress may just need to revisit that Charter. Maybe sooner than later.

Oh, you don't want to open up that can of worms.  Its like having a new Constitutional convention -- things are probably more likely to go bad than go well.  Better to stay under the Congressional radar.